Very negative (alt-titles crowner): Longest Prologue Ever

A lot of the examples, especially in the videogames section, are really negative in tone. I think the title might be contributing to it, though this does seem like a trope that would tend to draw a lot of complaints regardless.

EDIT: Also, natter, but removing the complaining would also remove most of the natter.

edited 27th Jul '11 11:44:13 PM by INUH

Infinite Tree: an experimental story

I think this one should have a Tropes Are Tools note on it. Having a long prologue isn't that bad, I myself usually end up prefering the prologue to the rest of the game.

This needs a YMMV banner.

Rhetorical, eh? ... Eight!

Very much so.... maybe even Flame Bait. (The Haruhi entry there is a heap of Bullshit.)

edited 28th Jul '11 1:08:58 AM by Raso

Sparkling and glittering! Jan-Ken-Pon!

I'd like it if there was a YMMV banner as well.

Alt account of Angeldog 2437.

It doesn't need a YMMV. IIRC, it recently got TR Sed for a new title. This just means it should be sent back for a new non-negative name.

It's not YMMV though. It's an introductory segment longer than normal introductory segments. It either happens or it doesn't.

The complaining is because a lot of people, including whoever titled it, seem to think the trope inherently sucks.

Perhaps "Unusually Long Prologue" would work better?

edited 28th Jul '11 10:20:00 AM by INUH

Infinite Tree: an experimental story

This has always struck me as a remarkably irrational thing for people to hate. Like how a lot of people bash flashbacks in any form, as if using them is inherently bad.

They dislike it because a prologue sets up the story. That's all it should do. If it spends longer getting everything ready it feels like it's dragging on. You want to get into the actual meat of the game/movie/whatever.

In any case, it's silly that because the trope title makes people add of negative things, you leap to "needs a YMMV banner", instead of fixing the actual root of the problem.

I'm cool with INUH's suggestion.

Fight smart, not fair.

It's still ymmv though even Flame Bait... what is considered "long" or "too long"? what is the appropriate length? was it needed? Was it even one? Many of which give a lot of story too, what some people call this others consider the movie itself (IE the Haruhi example which is bullshit.)

edited 28th Jul '11 2:29:31 PM by Raso

Sparkling and glittering! Jan-Ken-Pon!

Well, it's generally true that prologues are short. Not more than a few pages. Any longer than that and it's possible to call it one. I mean, we're not calling BFS subjective because we don't have a precise measurement for "big," are we?

And "prologue" isn't very subjective. It's an introductory segment that's separated in some way from the rest of the work. If there are examples that don't fit the definitiion of "prologue," that's the examples' problem, not the trope's.

As for the question of whether it's needed or the best part of the work or whatever, that has nothing at all to do with the trope.

Infinite Tree: an experimental story

I agree with Unusually Long Prologue.

Seriously, my avatar comes from the embodiment of the So Bad, It's Good trope.

"Unusually Long Prologue" sounds good.

something

Nthing Unusually Long Prologue.

Too bad we can't call it Prolonged Prologue ... or can we?

An Ear Worm is like a Rickroll: It is never going to give you up.

That could be a redirect, maybe.

something

Don't forget - this trope is listed on the page of pacing problems. It refers to a specific weakness in structuring a plot. A negative tone is at least sort of appropriate.

Tropes Are Not Bad

Fight smart, not fair.

Yeah, I'm with INUH and others on this one. This isn't a YMMV trope, nor is it a trope about poor writing (which would likely imply the former anyway). It's a trope about a longer-than-usual prologue, which many people dislike but isn't, by any stretch of the imagination, inherently bad, no matter what some people might try to tell you. Some book series, for instance, such as The Wheel Of Time, use the prologue to set the scene from the point of view of characters who wouldn't usually be POV-characters; if it decides to handle several such POVs, then it can easily be quite a bit longer than any other individual chapter, but does that make it bad? I'd say no, though others might disagree.

In short, like any trope, whether this one is bad or not (or good) is YMMV. Whether it's in effect, however, is not. There is the question of where you draw the line, but that's a technical matter rather than a point of emotional contention; reasonably precise guidelines can quite easily be provided in the description for borderline cases (for example, in literary cases, the prologue has to be, say, twice as long as any other chapter for it to come under this trope).

In light of this, I'd support a rename to Unusually Long Prologue, since "Xest. Y. EVER." has negative connotations for most people, not least due to how the Trope Namer used it. I'd also support adding Prolonged Prologue as a redirect, simply because it sounds kind of amusing.

edited 30th Nov '11 8:14:30 PM by Osric

That's only being currently defined as negative. Having a long prolouge isn't necesarily bad.

Put me in motion, drink the potion, use the lotion, drain the ocean, cause commotion, fake devotion, entertain a notion, be Nova Scotian

Also why pick Unusually Long Prolouge over Prolonged Prolouge? It's not quite as idiot-proof, but it's dosen't really sacrafice clarity for wit.

edited 30th Nov '11 7:36:25 PM by DrStarky

Put me in motion, drink the potion, use the lotion, drain the ocean, cause commotion, fake devotion, entertain a notion, be Nova Scotian

Fair point. Maybe Prolonged Prologue should just be the main title after all.

Like Prolonged Prologue for main, Unusually Long Prologue for second.

Fight smart, not fair.

This Also, does it count if there's no titledrop or credits or cutscenes to speak of? One of the Daisenryaku games uses the World War as its prologue, if only because it's alt-history so you need to know where to start. It doesn't really have an indicator of prologue-ness but if you were able to skip ahead the later mission briefings and what side is fighting who won't make sense. Not sure if there is a separate trope that would cover that sort of thing. For example, without pre-knowledge of the history of the world war, or by using someone else's savegame to select the scenarios, the third alt mission could be taken as Israel attempting to invade and conquer Germany instead of trying for some sly retribution for past crimes before the soviet invasion begins and they have to become official allies. Without knowing additional information and playing from this stage onwards, Israel's General Ripper looks like a real Jerkass war profiteer for attacking an ally and trying to force the Merkava to become the NATO-esque org's MBT over the Leopard by destroying them in the Leopard's testing phase.