Dutch Politics

We're talking about the VVD and NSC, the other far-right parties are below the threshold.

The heathcare stuff is much more popular with the voters than the pro-Russia stuff though.

I think one of the worst thing about these election results will probably be their effects on climate and nature, since both VVD (pro-cooperation neoliberals) and NSC (pro-farmer) are also really bad in that area.

yeah, luckily it is predicted the FVD (which are actually pretty similar to the republicans) will lose seats.

Edited by Unoriginalusername3 on Nov 23rd 2023 at 7:43:42 PM

Boris Johnstone’s promises to hire more nurses and build more hospitals were the most popular bits of his election bid, that didn’t mean much when he got power and decided not to both and to just lie about fulfilling his promises.

If he’s looking to coalition with the traditional right-wing parties then there is a risk that they force compromise not on the far-right stuff but on the economic popularism.

Edited by Silasw on Nov 23rd 2023 at 6:50:15 PM

I mean, the NSC and VVD have more policies in common with the left-wing coalition on most coutns.

OK,going back a page buuut

> He is not a party of one guy, his party just doesn't have any party members. This is what allows one man parties, which aren't bad perse.

in what way aren't they bad?

Exactly, they are center right, rather than far right, and much more natural partners for PVV than more right wing ones, which are much more conservative on economic matters. And Wilders seems to be genuine in his populism, at least.

They can form powerful lobby parties on issues. Partij voor de Dieren (Animal Party), for instance, was such a party that managed to hold a lot of influence on some key topics despite their tiny size. And thanks to the coalition system, even tiny parties with only 2-3 seats can be important voting considerations on certain topics. This is how the SGP (orthodox Christians) has managed to stay relevant decade after decade despite their very stable 2-3 seats.

Edit: nevermind, Wilders does indeed seem to be an active Russia-supporter, like Baudet.

Edited by Redmess on Nov 23rd 2023 at 9:03:34 PM

My guess is that Wilders will be like Meloni - extreme, populist rhetorics, but he will end up being a fairly standart Center-Right Head of State.

Edited by Forenperser on Nov 23rd 2023 at 9:44:48 PM

That is certainly possible, Wilders has already been playing with less radical stances, though his anti-Islam stance will never completely go away.

FVD is getting all popular with the kids, it seems, posting clips on Tik Tok about political leaders playing Minecraft (I'm pretty certain they don't)... and talk about legionaries. That's how they raise funds, it seems: they recruit kids to become FVD legionaries.

I probably don't need to explain to this crowd what the connection is between far right parties and Romans, though apparently NRC Haagse Zaken is not really up on this sort of thing (they do have a youth specialist now, at least, who can explain what the younger voters are doing). These strategies are based on a certain influencer, Andrew Tate, who has apparently been banned from Tik Tok for misogyny. It's, uh, not great.

On another point, some of you may have seen Timmerman's (GL/PVDA) rather fiery speech after the election, and wonder where that spirit was a day earlier... That's the sort of energy that was missing from the campaign, and perhaps part of why the results were the way they were.

Well, perhaps this is at least a wake up call to left wing parties to really stand for something again, and go back to those ideological roots, because it seems we still have need for those after all.

Edited by Redmess on Nov 23rd 2023 at 12:00:00 PM

Fascists having left-wing economic policies is nothing new.

Actually, Wilders sounds like he's taking a page from Marine Le Pen - the woman who managed to build LGBT rights into part of a fascist platform. By hating on immigrants hard enough, he can court the angry young man vote without having to hate on women or LGBT people.

Hence why he's pro-abortion too.

That's possible, yes.

The VVD has already expressed that they would like it explicitly put in text that the anti-Islam DNA of the PVV should not be in a coalition accord, which would effectively neuter Wilders on that point. No word yet from NSC on that, but Omtzigt is a former CDA man, I expect him to do the same.

That would probably mean a minority coalition, perhaps with a condoning partner, but a VVD veteran said he feels confident there will be a government eventually, since formation troubles can always be resolved.

There were also rumours that SGP frontrunner Van Der Staay could be in charge of coalition talks. It's not true, but that's another way in which small parties still can be influential (that doesn't mean a coalition would be SGP coloured, mind you, just that they guide the process in finding coalition partners and offering potential coalitions).

Edited by Redmess on Nov 24th 2023 at 10:04:53 AM

A condoning partner like the leftist party?

The big left party is framing their coming opposition as "a fight for democracy against a semi-fascist demagogue treating millions of citizens as second-class".

I'm not really sure how they could ever be offered enough to walk back from that and give their condonement.

Edited by Kayeka on Nov 24th 2023 at 12:07:14 PM

Also, I've heard from someone that the potential coalition may allow a bill that would allow military force on left-wing protestors, as well as well as abolishing the public broadcasting system.

How accurate is that?

The pvv want to abolish the public broadcasting. Nsc and vvd want budget cuts but not to abolish it entirely. I can't find anything about the milatary force on protestors thing but I seriously doubt it would happen.

I don't see the VVD or NSC agreeing to anything like that military force. That sounds like a bit of scaremongering by people who don't really understand how the Dutch right wing operates.

I heard of it from a Dutch user who is expecting the worst case scenario.

Well, Wilders has been the boogeyman for a long time now, so that is not surprising, I guess. Mind you, even worse parties have sprung up in the PVV wake since its inception, ones even Wilders stays away from, so this is not even the worst thing that could have happened.

It is good to remember (and mention to your friend) that it isn't enough for Wilders to win the elections, he also has to be able to form a coalition, and he may very well not be able to, unless he does some serious concessions that would remove some of his most extreme policies.

And no, there is no chance he can form a block with the far right parties. I don't think that's even on the table right now.

Based on articles I read some years back, I believe Wilders attaches himself to 'enlightenment' ideals. Kind of like the Napoleonic idea that the West is bringing a superior civilisation to the world, and other cultures (in particular Muslims) are simply backwards.

Therefore, his argument would be that the rights of women and LGBT people are part of the superior Western civilisation that he is trying to protect, distinguishing the West from backwards cultures.

Frankly, I have met people in real life who expressed ideas similar to this, so it wouldn't surprise me if he genuinely believes this.

But, I could be misunderstanding his ideas, I'm not up-to-date on the guy. I didn't know he was fine with Russia's invasion of Ukraine, and clearly he's a piece of work.

I'm not sure he is supporting Russia so much as he just doesn't want the Netherlands to be involved in it at all. It's Ukraine's problem, not ours, basically.

My impression was that Wilders is hardcore Islamophobe. "It's not our problem" is frequently used as a fig leaf to egoistically ignore the repercussions of other people's problems, especially considering the Malaysia 17 thing.

In other words, he's an idiot. Which isn't much better than being an active Russian stooge, by the way.

What does that have to do with the war in Ukraine? Not saying you're wrong, but islamophobia doesn't really play into that conflict.

One interesting thing is that a lot of PVV voters have voted for the Mild Wilders, not the polarizing ones. Actual Muslims have voted on him because they believed he drop0ped his anti-Muslim stance. That puts Wilders in an interesting position: he can either become milder and hold on to power, or stay extreme and lose it all. He doesn't have the excuse of being excluded now, after all. All complaints of "why isn't the government getting on with governing instead of endless quibbling" and "why don't they listen to me and my voters" must go out the window now.