DEATH BATTLE

I'm pretty sure that they've claimed Unicron-Galactus is the most popular Death Battle request in the past, although I'm sure Thanos-Darkseid is close to it.

I'm not sure how accurate this is because so much of Final Crisis is so abstract and dreamlike, but from what I could understand Darkseid was "killed" on New Genesis along with the other New Gods and then "falls" onto earth into a new human body, but as he falls through spacetime the universe collapses around him, creating a kind of vortex with Earth at the very bottom.

Shit's weird.

@slimcoder: Whether or not the Infinity Gauntlet can be used depends entirely on whether or not the fight is taking place within the Marvel universe.

That's interesting, since there's an argument to me made that the same principle would affect the Anti-Life Equation. (There's a similar scene about how the Speed Force only works in the DCU.)

They could just assume that the fight takes place in a universe that was born from fusing the DC and Marvel universes without it going Amalgam Universe, thus leaving all characters, artifacts, etc. as independent entities.

Marvel and DC have crossed over like that before and after the Amalgam event.

I can’t remember, how did they handle the Speed Force in Flash vs Quicksilver? Cause that has the same principle (it doesn’t exist in the Marvel Universe, but Quicksilver could theoretically tap into it if he was in the DC universe).

Edited by KnownUnknown on Oct 22nd 2018 at 10:17:08 AM

He never managed it in JLA/Avengers

Flash had to build a Speed Force Harness for when he was in the Marvel universe so that he wasn't powerless, but in the DC Universe, he could beat Quicksilver running backwards.

@Known Unknown: Barry Allen is the source of the Speed Force. The other Flashes can tap into it, but if they go to a universe where the Speed Force doesn't exist (such as the post-Crisis Wally West going to Earth-616 in JLA/Avengers), they lose access to it. Barry, however, can presumably take it with him wherever he goes (if we are to assume that the "Buried Alien" [a.k.a. Fastforward] that Quasar of Earth-616 met was indeed Allen during his "suicide run" in Crisis on Infinite Earths, as was heavily implied, then he definitely can do it).

Edited by TrashJack on Oct 22nd 2018 at 1:43:10 PM

A Death Battle between Darkseid and Thanos will take place in a genetic location where all of their powers work. This is because "Darkseid wins because the Infinity Gems don't work in his dimension" and "Thanos wins because the Anti-Life Equation doesn't work in his dimension" are stupid ways to conclude the fight.

Factors unrelated to characters cannot end the battle. The winner cannot be decided by the setting of the fight.

... I think we already had this conversation the last time Darkseid vs. Thanos was discussed, but there's also the question of which version of the Anti-Life Equation they choose to go with. I'm not much of a DC follower, but from what I've found on the wikis it's either a mathematical equation that enslaves those who witness it to the user's will (with the most common user being, of course, Darkseid) by driving them to a nihilistic Despair Event Horizon, or an Eldritch Abomination whose counterpart is the Source.

Given that Thanos is already an extreme nihilist who believes that life is utterly worthless, wouldn't that negate at least part of how (the wikis state) the Anti-Life Equation functions? That said, as seen in Venomized, Thanos can be mentally dominated and enslaved, but the only beings to have pulled that off did so by impersonating Mistress Death. In all other cases, his sheer physical, mental, and mystical prowess make him one of the most powerful mortals in the Marvel Universe - even without the Infinity Gauntlet.

Edited by Arawn999 on Oct 22nd 2018 at 2:27:08 AM

Thanos even without the Infinity Gauntlet is able to match all Father Odin with the Odinforce or wearing the Destroyer armor (The strongest Skyfather being, with only Zeus being stronger on average due to being immortal where Odin is just very old, but the aforementioned Odinforce and Destroyer armor put him above Zeus) and even some of the weaker Celestials.

Edited by Demongodofchaos2 on Oct 22nd 2018 at 7:08:41 AM

Speaking of Thanos:

@JLA/Avengers: Quicksilver could indeed feel the presence of the speed force when entering the DC universe. However, unlike Scarlet Witch with Chaos magic, he was only able to tap into it in the barest of ways. As a result, he was faster in the DCU, but nowhere near as much as the actual Flashes.

That he was not able to utilize it was well as Wally is irrelevant to the point. I wasn’t bringing it up to try and claim that Quicksilver could totes beat Flash in a fight. I brought it up as a reference for the question of whether forces from one universe could affect another. So the fact that he was able to feel its presence at all is what's important: it sets a precedent (in regards, specifically, to the Anti-Life equation, we already know the Infinity Gems don't work in the DCU, and why).

Edited by KnownUnknown on Oct 23rd 2018 at 5:07:41 AM

Every universe has their own set of infinity whatevers

Usually in gem shape but in a very DC esque universe they took the shape of panes of glass to form a cube

As the universes did become part of the same multiverse, this implies that DC does have its own set of Infinity Whatevers and nobody has put it together yet

Which, no shame. Space is huge and it took all the way from the beginning of time to Thanos reading a lot of really boring old texts to realize that the ‘soul gems’ were part of a set and to assemble the Infinity Gauntlet for the first time

So any thoughts on using Jin from Xenoblade Chronicles 2?

He's got in game feats as a Guest-Star Party Member, 3 different boss fights, and as a fully playable character in Torna The Golden Land.

I'm thinking of changing my Hitsugaya vs Hiei fight to a Jin vs Hiei fight...though that might be as much as a stomp in Jin's favour as the first fight was in Hiei's.

Ooh, I started Torna ~ The Golden Country just recently! Being in both the prequel and main game probably gives him more to work with than Rex/Pyra/Mythra or p o p p i p o w e r do.

Spoiler-ish joke suggestion for his opponent, just going off of what the main game shows about him: Nathan Spencer, from Bionic Commando 2009.
Don't have a serious suggestion off the top of my head since I'm not versed enough to think of other ice swordsmen, though I'm sure there's plenty of those as there are plenty of characters that share backstory beats with him.

I feel like using the "Archie Sonic is a different Sonic" thing is kind of an excuse that goes against the spirit of them creating a composite that represents the character at the peak of their power.

Oh boy does it. How many death battles will they have to redo if they decided to be specific about that?

They've made it pretty clear that it's about using a character that best represents their abilities and what they've done rather than the character at their absolute strongest. Hence why they don't use one-time power ups if it isn't really "theirs".

Not to mention the fact that Archie Sonic is explicitly a different continuity and is effectively dead after the Penders lawsuit.

Edited by EpicBleye on Oct 23rd 2018 at 9:34:02 AM

Well, they did exclude the events of Jojos Bizarre Adventure Eyes Of Heaven from Jotaro's breakdown, and even pointed out that they were doing so.

So calling bullshit on certain incarnations can be a thing I'd say.

Yeah, and people got on Ben's ass for having Android 18 absorb energy.

So damned if you do, damned if you don't~

That's not what they do anymore. The rules changed significantly between seasons two and three. In the first two seasons, any and all appearances of a character were considered. The final product was a composite of all media the character had shown up in across their history.

So if they did a Spider-Man battle, they would incorporate the Spider-Man movies, the Ultimate comics, video games, the cartoons, etc. to create the strongest possible interpretation of the character.

The rules changed starting in season three to a more serious, less slapdash approach. The character is no longer the strongest possible composite. They take the original source material as the character's "canon", along with any supplemental materials meant to be in-line with that specific version of the character.

So if they did a Spider-Man battle, they would use the 616 comics but ignore the live-action films and cartoons. They would also ignore most of the video games, though anything that's sort of a "main timeline" game such as Spider-Man: Edge of Time or the SNES Maximum Carnage title would be allowed. Ultimate Spider-Man is right out, because he is canonically a different universe's character.

Comic's Ultimate Spider-Man or Animated Ultimate Spiderman?

Not that I'm not seeing your point.