Follow TV Tropes

Following

The General US Politics Thread

Go To

Nov 2023 Mod notice:


There may be other, more specific, threads about some aspects of US politics, but this one tends to act as a hub for all sorts of related news and information, so it's usually one of the busiest OTC threads.

If you're new to OTC, it's worth reading the Introduction to On-Topic Conversations and the On-Topic Conversations debate guidelines before posting here.

Rumor-based, fear-mongering and/or inflammatory statements that damage the quality of the thread will be thumped. Off-topic posts will also be thumped. Repeat offenders may be suspended.

If time spent moderating this thread remains a distraction from moderation of the wiki itself, the thread will need to be locked. We want to avoid that, so please follow the forum rules when posting here.


In line with the general forum rules, 'gravedancing' is prohibited here. If you're celebrating someone's death or hoping that they die, your post will get thumped. This rule applies regardless of what the person you're discussing has said or done.

Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

archonspeaks Since: Jun, 2013
#233501: Mar 4th 2018 at 4:56:07 PM

As long as the situation is hypothetical, it would depend on the political situation in Canada. If there was a sizable portion of the Canadian public that viewed the US invasion positively, it could theoretically go well. Obviously well is a relative term here, but an invasion like that is essentially a hearts and minds game.

I don’t think a US invasion of Canada is a realistic scenario though.

They should have sent a poet.
Wyldchyld (Old as dirt)
#233502: Mar 4th 2018 at 4:58:14 PM

TBH, this tariff nonsense is something I expected him to do a year ago. I'm not sure why he's only instigating a trade war now.

By all accounts he has tried to do it before, but he's always had the kind of people around him who could pull him back from the edge. He doesn't have that this time.

There has been speculation in the past that if Trump's economic advisor (Gary Cohn) resigned (at the time, over Trump's handling of neo-nazi groups), there could be a market crash: Wall Street has been regarding Cohn as a sanity leash on Trump. Resignation rumours have been floating around again, given the rumour that Cohn is not pleased with Trump's attitude towards tariffs.

If my post doesn't mention a giant flying sperm whale with oversized teeth and lionfish fins for flippers, it just isn't worth reading.
kkhohoho Since: May, 2011
#233503: Mar 4th 2018 at 4:58:22 PM

[up][up][up]The United Imperium of America vs the Great People's Republic of Canada: Book 1

I should write that.

edited 4th Mar '18 4:58:33 PM by kkhohoho

Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#233504: Mar 4th 2018 at 5:08:42 PM

[up]I would read the hell out of that tongue

"Sandwiches are probably easier to fix than the actual problems" -Hylarn
PhysicalStamina (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Coming soon to theaters
#233505: Mar 4th 2018 at 5:12:15 PM

I don't see America invading Canada.

What I think would be more likely is us begging Canada to let us crash there for a little while, at least until the midterms.

It's one thing to make a spectacle. It's another to make a difference.
Parable Since: Aug, 2009
#233506: Mar 4th 2018 at 5:12:29 PM

All this talk of an war with Canada reminds me of a story I once read where all the maple syrup in the world was stolen and aliens told the United States that Canada took it all. So the Americans invade Canada at dawn on horseback with lassoes to capture all the Canadians because the aliens also told them that Canadians bleed syrup.

A captured Canadian at the US camp finds aliens making pancakes for everyone while wearing an apron reading, "Kiss the Carbon-Based Provider of Substance Feeding Your Sorry Ass, Bitch." While the American is explaining why they invaded Canada, the Canadian sees the aliens mocking him from behind the American's back while waving a full container of maple syrup, revealing that it was the aliens who stole it all and they just blamed it on the Canadians for giggles.

Infowars lost it's ad stream. However, Youtube still says they aren't going to delete it.

TheWildWestPyro from Seattle, WA Since: Sep, 2012 Relationship Status: Healthy, deeply-felt respect for this here Shotgun
#233507: Mar 4th 2018 at 5:16:51 PM

Invasions of Canada happen all the time in Kaiserreich: Legacy of the Weltkrieg. Especially in the HOI 4 version - when the Second American Civil War breaks out, 99% of the time, Canada decides to go expand and side with the Pacific States over the federal government. Usually this ends with a victorious federal government attacking the Canadian Commonwealth.

Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#233508: Mar 4th 2018 at 5:17:39 PM

[up]It also happens in Fallout, a totalitarian US government invades Canada for its resources and to provide a land route to Alaska (to fight against the Chinese invasion).

edited 4th Mar '18 5:17:49 PM by Fourthspartan56

"Sandwiches are probably easier to fix than the actual problems" -Hylarn
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#233509: Mar 4th 2018 at 5:20:41 PM

If the USA does become batshit crazy enough to invade one of its own neighbors, I always figured Mexico would be the first hit.

edited 4th Mar '18 5:20:52 PM by M84

Disgusted, but not surprised
TheWildWestPyro from Seattle, WA Since: Sep, 2012 Relationship Status: Healthy, deeply-felt respect for this here Shotgun
#233510: Mar 4th 2018 at 5:22:53 PM

All the victorious governments after the civil war in Kaiserreich may invade Canada. Either the far-left Combined Syndicalists of America under Jack Reed, either the American Union State under Huey Long, either the socially conservative Pacific States of America or the federal government under Douglas MacArthur.

I usually side with Mac, and restore democracy as the American Cincinnatus rather than becoming the American Caesar and setting up a benevolent dictatorship.

It really should be noted that there's no evil faction out of the four. All of them bring sweeping reforms that greatly benefit America, and all their leaders have their own charm.

edited 4th Mar '18 5:27:51 PM by TheWildWestPyro

kkhohoho Since: May, 2011
#233511: Mar 4th 2018 at 5:24:29 PM

[up][up]To be fair, that's not without precedent. Remember the Mexican American War?

edited 4th Mar '18 5:24:41 PM by kkhohoho

PhysicalStamina (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Coming soon to theaters
#233512: Mar 4th 2018 at 5:26:09 PM

I don't think another war with Mexico would be a good idea right now. I mean, if we send soldiers down there and Trump finally gets his wall built, how are they gonna get home?

It's one thing to make a spectacle. It's another to make a difference.
kkhohoho Since: May, 2011
#233513: Mar 4th 2018 at 5:35:30 PM

[up]Simple: Ladder and rope. Just send them along with the boys and you're good.tongue

edited 4th Mar '18 5:35:41 PM by kkhohoho

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#233514: Mar 4th 2018 at 5:41:33 PM

The war would have to last a pretty long time for the soldiers to get stranded due to a border wall. Building even a fence along the whole border took a while. An actual wall...

edited 4th Mar '18 5:41:59 PM by M84

Disgusted, but not surprised
thok That's Dr. Title, thank you! (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Non-Canon
That's Dr. Title, thank you!
#233515: Mar 4th 2018 at 5:56:01 PM

For people comparing an invasion of Canada to an invasion of Russia, you've missed that WWII Russia had a resource that Canada does not have: Russians.

(Canada's current population is about 36 million; Russia lost at least 8 million soldiers and another 13 million civilians during WWII and survived those losses by having a population of around 180 million.)

ITNW1989 a from Big Meat, USA Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
a
#233516: Mar 4th 2018 at 5:57:17 PM

[up] But what about the Moose Cavalry?

edited 4th Mar '18 5:57:30 PM by ITNW1989

Hitokiri in the streets, daishouri in the sheets.
Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#233517: Mar 4th 2018 at 5:57:21 PM

[up][up]Yeah the only thing possibly difficult about an invasion of Canada would be the peace after-words, crushing Canada's military and securing its population centers would not be excessively difficult (or in anyway comparable to Germany's experience in Russia).

[up]My god surprised

edited 4th Mar '18 5:58:08 PM by Fourthspartan56

"Sandwiches are probably easier to fix than the actual problems" -Hylarn
Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#233518: Mar 4th 2018 at 6:10:55 PM

We've got a potential problem here. A few Democrats are supporting Trumps tariffs, mostly those in the Rust Belt.

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/03/02/democratic-congresswoman-supports-trumps-tariffs-we-cant-afford-to-lose-us-steel-production.html

While this isn't widespread yet...if the Democrats embrace Trump nuttiest policy, the United States is (and the global economy, most likely) is a write off as a reliable partner in the future.

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
sgamer82 Since: Jan, 2001
#233519: Mar 4th 2018 at 6:14:51 PM

We've got a potential problem here. A few Democrats are supporting Trumps tariffs, mostly those in the Rust Belt.

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/03/02/democratic-congresswoman-supports-trumps-tariffs-we-cant-afford-to-lose-us-steel-production.html

While this isn't widespread yet...if the Democrats embrace Trump nuttiest policy, the United States is (and the global economy, most likely) is a write off as a reliable partner in the future.

Are those Dems "Blue Dog" types? Or feeling pressured due to their constituents?

edited 4th Mar '18 6:15:14 PM by sgamer82

Parable Since: Aug, 2009
#233520: Mar 4th 2018 at 6:16:10 PM

Hardly a problem. They need so show support for anything that looks like it will help restore the Rust Belt or Blue Dogs will abandon them. Most everyone else isn't going to support the tariffs since their base is fine on that account.

PhysicalStamina (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Coming soon to theaters
#233521: Mar 4th 2018 at 6:17:18 PM

I don't see the tariffs getting widespread support.

It's one thing to make a spectacle. It's another to make a difference.
Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#233522: Mar 4th 2018 at 6:22:00 PM

Yeah this isn't a problem, because it isn't really a surprise that officials in areas that rely on industries connected to those products would be in-favor of the tariffs but no-one else would be foolish enough (on the Democratic side at-least) to support these insane tariffs.

"Sandwiches are probably easier to fix than the actual problems" -Hylarn
Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#233523: Mar 4th 2018 at 6:35:56 PM

It is true that the only people excited for this trade war (other than those cunning fuckers at the Kremlin) are Trump's hardcore base, the steel industry (short sighted idiots...) and misguided, desperate industrial workers.

I do have some hope that Congress will move to reverse any tariffs that are imposed, which should hopefully limit the damage. However, Congress has demonstrated that they can fuck up even the simplest shit lately.

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
megaeliz Since: Mar, 2017
#233524: Mar 4th 2018 at 7:41:21 PM

State Dept. Was Granted $120 Million to Fight Russian Meddling. It Has Spent $0.

WASHINGTON — As Russia’s virtual war against the United States continues unabated with the midterm elections approaching, the State Department has yet to spend any of the $120 million it has been allocated since late 2016 to counter foreign efforts to meddle in elections or sow distrust in democracy.

As a result, not one of the 23 analysts working in the department’s Global Engagement Center — which has been tasked with countering Moscow’s disinformation campaign — speaks Russian, and a department hiring freeze has hindered efforts to recruit the computer experts needed to track the Russian efforts.

The delay is just one symptom of the largely passive response to the Russian interference by President Trump, who has made little if any public effort to rally the nation to confront Moscow and defend democratic institutions. More broadly, the funding lag reflects a deep lack of confidence by Secretary of State Rex W. Tillerson in his department’s ability to execute its historically wide-ranging mission and spend its money wisely.

Mr. Tillerson has voiced skepticism that the United States is even capable of doing anything to counter the Russian threat. note 

“If it’s their intention to interfere, they’re going to find ways to do that,” Mr. Tillerson said in an interview last month with Fox News. “And we can take steps we can take, but this is something that once they decide they are going to do it, it’s very difficult to pre-empt it.” note 

The United States spends billions of dollars on secret cybercapabilities, but these weapons have proved largely ineffective against Russian efforts on Facebook, Twitter and elsewhere that simply amplify or distort divisive but genuine voices in the United States and elsewhere.

The role for the Global Engagement Center would be to assess Russian efforts and then set about amplifying a different set of voices to counter them, perhaps creating a network of anti-propaganda projects dispersed around the world, experts said.

“There are now thousands of former Russian journalists who have been exiled or fired who are doing counter-Russian stuff in exile who we could help,” said Richard Stengel, who as the under secretary for public diplomacy in the Obama administration had oversight of the Global Engagement Center.

Concerted campaigns to highlight the roles of Russian troll farms or Russian mercenaries in Ukraine and Syria could have a profound effect, Mr. Stengel said.

At the end of the Obama administration, Congress directed the Pentagon to send $60 million to the State Department so it could coordinate governmentwide efforts, including those by the Defense Department and the Department of Homeland Security, to counter anti-democratic propaganda by Russia and China. This messaging effort is separate from other potential government actions like cyberattacks.

Mr. Tillerson spent seven months trying to decide whether to spend any of the money. The State Department finally sent a request to the Defense Department on Sept. 18 to transfer the funds, but with just days left in the fiscal year, Pentagon officials decided that the State Department had lost its shot at the money.

With another $60 million available for the next fiscal year, the two departments dickered for another five months over how much the State Department could have.

After The New York Times, following a report on the issue by Politico in August, began asking about the delayed money, the State Department announced on Monday that the Pentagon had agreed to transfer $40 million for the effort, just a third of what was originally intended.

State Department officials say they expect to receive the money in April. In the meantime, Steve Goldstein, the under secretary for public diplomacy, said he would contribute $1 million from his own budget to “kick-start the initiative quickly.”

“This funding is critical to ensuring that we continue an aggressive response to malign influence and disinformation,” Mr. Goldstein said.

On Wednesday, Mark E. Mitchell, a top official in the Defense Department, said much wrangling remained before any of the promised $40 million is transferred to the State Department.

“We’re still a ways off,” Mr. Mitchell said.

The delays have infuriated some members of Congress, which approved the funding transfer with bipartisan support.

“It is well past time that the State Department’s Global Engagement Center gets the resources Congress intended for it to effectively fight Kremlin-sponsored disinformation and other foreign propaganda operations,” Senator Robert Menendez of New Jersey, the top Democrat on the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, said on Wednesday.

Adele Ruppe, the center’s chief of staff, defended the administration’s broader efforts to counter Russian propaganda, pointing out that the State Department had provided $1.3 billion in assistance in 2017 to strengthen European resilience to Russian meddling. But that money was largely obligated during the Obama administration, and the Trump administration has proposed slashing that assistance by more than half for the coming year, to $527 million, and to $491 million for the next year.

While it waits for the funding transfer from the Pentagon, the center, which has a staff of around 60 people, including 23 contract analysts, will continue working on its original mission: countering jihadist and extremist propaganda.

Most of the center’s leaders are working in temporary assignments, a product of Mr. Tillerson’s halt in promotions. The analysts work in a warren of cubicles in the basement of a tired building that once housed the Office of Strategic Services, the World War II predecessor to the C.I.A.

The analysts are divided into five teams that largely work in four languages: Arabic, Urdu, French and Somali. The analysts said in interviews that they had notched some significant victories, including a video montage proving that the Islamic State had itself destroyed Al Nuri Grand Mosque in Mosul, Iraq, and a widely seen cartoon in French depicting the miserable life of an Islamic State fighter.

Still, these efforts are a small fraction of what Congress envisioned. A 2015 internal assessment found that the Islamic State had been far more nimble on social media than the United States had been. In May, Congress more than doubled the center’s budget, providing an additional $19 million over its earlier budget of $14 million. But by Jan. 1, the department had spent just $3.6 million of the additional $19 million, Mr. Goldstein said.

James K. Glassman, the under secretary for public diplomacy during the George W. Bush administration, said the center’s uncertain funding and temporary leadership reflected the administration’s lack of interest in countering either jihadist or Russian propaganda

“They’ve got the vehicle to do this work in the center,” Mr. Glassman said. “What they don’t have is a secretary of state or a president who’s interested in doing this work.”

Mr. Tillerson is focusing his energies instead on drastically shrinking the department, leaving a significant part of its budget unused and hundreds of important decisions unmade.

Last year, the State Department spent just 79 percent of the money that Congress had authorized for the conduct of foreign affairs, the lowest such level in at least 15 years and well down from the 93 percent spent in the final year of the Obama administration, according to an analysis of data from the Office of Management and Budget.

Because of the hiring and promotion freezes that have left large sums unspent, as well as Mr. Tillerson’s refusal to delegate spending decisions, the department had a backlog of more than 1,400 official requests for Mr. Tillerson’s signoff at the end of last year, according to a former senior diplomat who left the department then.

This is what's scary to me. This is a problem that requires all hands on deck, but the leaders are malcious incompetence are willfully keeping us defenseless.

edited 4th Mar '18 8:21:16 PM by megaeliz

Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#233525: Mar 4th 2018 at 7:45:43 PM

Can't believe I'm saying this, but I hope the ladies and gentlemen at Langley are taking initiative on this file...orders be damned.

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.

Total posts: 417,856
Top