The General US Politics Thread

Y'all realize Gorka was on the FNC payroll before he got the White House gig right? Hell, I'm fairly certain Trump's real cabinet is FNC, given that the toupee has weekly dinners with Hannity and Jeanine.

I'm getting drained by all the right wing nonsense. I can't keep up anymore.

Him and his supporters.

@M84: The difference between the case of Japan and of China is a population ten times the size of Japan and far less of an issue with natural resources. Right now, China appears to be on track to follow the same model of development that other advanced economies in East Asia have, and while that entails eventual stagnation as a result of demographics, China with Japan's GDP per capita in 2050 has an economy twice the size of that of the United States.

The most pertinent question when it comes to China is whether the country can effectively manage the transition from an economy driven by exports to one driven by internal consumption; the United States doesn't really have much of a say in how that ends up going.

I know people around here tend to be bullish on India, but the reality is they've likely missed the boat in terms of development; automation is making the tried and tested path for nations to develop by offering a cheap labor pool increasing obsolete, making it very difficult for India to avoid falling into the middle income trap.

And the pool of supporters can't grow. No one else is starting to get bitten by the Trump bug. It can only shrink.

edited 8th Nov '17 9:05:36 PM by GamesandTropes

I wasn't basing my thoughts on China on Japan. Or India for that matter. I didn't even mention Japan or India in my posts.

I'm sorry to keep going back and quoting old posts that I want to respond to, I hope it's not driving everyone up a wall.

Yeah, this is definitely an issue I think Democrats need to get over, especially given the propensity of American politics to get bogged down in gridlock and exhaustingly slow change. You're not falling in love, nor are you electing a king or the God-Emperor, you're essentially hiring a temp, and with many political positions (especially president) not only do they have a definite cap on how long they can work for you, but circumstances everywhere and everyone around are going to be conspiring to hobble your temp, no matter how good they are at the job.

So look at who does apply, pick the best one, and make your choice work as best you can until you have to get a new temp to replace them. Don't pine for the perfect candidate who only exists in your mind, otherwise the position will never be filled. Also, be cognizant that none of your temps are ever going to be perfect and accept that.

Sanders has said some shitty things about women, brushes off the concerns of anyone who isn't a direct constituent, and has a tremendous talent for Interservice Rivalry. If it comes down to him vs the Republican, and you want to see an advancement of progressive ideals and prevent the sort of BS we're seeing under this administration, then vote for him.

Kamala Harris is getting hate from some elements of the tumblr left because she didn't prosecute a shitty mortgage company when she was DA in California, and probably some other arcane stuff that they've decided is a deal breaker for them. If it comes down to her vs a Republican, they should be lining up to vote for her.

Gillibrand adopted a bunch of conservative stances, particularly on immigrant, when she ran for a district where Republicans outnumbered Democrats 2 or 3 to 1. She won it, held it for a several terms, and dropped those stances like a hot potato when she got a chance to go statewide instead of representing a relative backwoods. If it comes down to her vs a Republican, vote for her.

I despise Cuomo as a lying, two-faced snake and self aggrandizing bully who will find any excuse to put others down (primarily others within his own party) to make himself look good. If he ran for president and somehow won the presidential nomination, I'd pick him over Trump in a heartbeat, and so should others.

The list goes on and on, and you can list all the imperfections of every major Democrat and possible presidential candidate. Brush it off, accept that they're fallible humans rather than ideal fictional rulers, do the best to make them work for what you think is the best course of action. If they don't do so perfectly but are still the best option, keep at it. If they no longer become the best option, chuck 'em aside.

And remember, you're looking to find a temp to work for you, not a soulmate, so don't bother with trying to fall in love.[/ramble]

edited 8th Nov '17 9:15:14 PM by TheWanderer

Seconded and .

edited 8th Nov '17 9:26:48 PM by LSBK

You can tell people to vote Democrat to stave off a Republicans, but actually getting them to do so is quite another thing. That would require a gigantic change of progressive culture, maybe even a change of the personality of progressive individuals.

For many on the left, especially the far left, politics is a thing of passion, a desire to change the very core of the country for the greater good. Can one really expect a hardcore feminist, someone who devotes their entire life to combatting what she sees as the destruction of female lives by a cruel system to vote for someone who has acted against abortion rights or treated female employees as cattle. Can a a hardcore socialist justify voting for someone who is buddy-buddy with the tech industry and casts a blind eye towards their foul treatment of workers at home and abroad? For conservatives its much easier: vote for whom ever promises to change nothing or revert to past policy.

IT'S EITHER THAT OR THE REPUBLICANS

Form ranks and shut up, or accept defeat now.

Zephyr, what's with the all-caps? From what I can tell, Ludlow wasn't saying that it shouldn't be done, they were expressing skepticism that it could be done (which I find overly pessimistic, but whatever). The hostility is uncalled for.

edited 8th Nov '17 9:52:04 PM by KarkatTheDalek

If neither candidate is the perfect one in your eyes, the smart thing to do is to vote for the one more likely to actually listen to you when you protest on the streets.

At bare minimum, go for the candidate who seems to at least be paying lip service to what you support. Even if "both sides are just as bad" if the one promising to support cause X doesn't, you'll have more leeway to get on their case about it vs someone who opposed cause X throughout their campaign.

Also, on a side note:

Judge issues gag order in Manafort, Gates case
The directive discourages statements to the media, but it doesn't ban them outright

https://www.politico.com/story/2017/11/08/gag-order-issued-in-manafort-gates-case-244691

edited 8th Nov '17 9:54:40 PM by sgamer82

I agree, but I’ve always agreed. My point was that convincing someone who disagrees is quite another thing.

Vote for the one who is less likely to call protesters "sons of bitches".

Then they can be preyed on by Trump and his ilk.The far left will get nothing by getting Republicans elected every November.

Question: what if we need them on our side if we want to win? Shouting "get in line or fuck off!" might feel good, but if we truly want to win, then I think there will have to be overtures from the more moderate factions.

Basically, what do they want? (And if you're going to say that what they want cannot be offered, then a source to that effect would be appreciated)

edited 8th Nov '17 10:01:02 PM by KarkatTheDalek

The problematic sort tend to be of the mind "if you won't wholesale go for my wants, I'm not going to vote for you, regardless of the fact this is a two party FPTP system and not a coalition-based proportional one".

Yeah " No compromise " does seem to be a tenant of modern American progressives.

That's the issue. Moderates have been asking progressives what they want. They keep compromising. But for the really stubborn problematic ones, it's never enough.

edited 8th Nov '17 10:12:05 PM by M84

And the "thing of passion" excuse doesn't even work because it most certainly is that for many on the right. They're just a lot a better at understand that going with a Republican that they hate still gets them closer to what they want than (almost) any Democrat will.

Their passion is a big part of the reason things are as they are now.

edited 8th Nov '17 10:17:15 PM by LSBK

Well, I won't disagree that there are people who will refuse to compromise on the more leftist elements.

That being said...if letting them assume control of the Democratic Party made the difference between victory and defeat, would you let them? Honest question, I swear.