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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM
Figure of Hourai
Whilst those things tend to be jumping to conclusions, it is an emergent consequence of having contradictory positions—in this case, that nobody should be forced to join a union but at the same time supporting something that's a union in all but name for what it achieves.
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I don't think pointing that out is very useful without knowing what the person actually does in real life, which kind of goes back to separating ideals and action. Extreme selfishness can certainly be destructive, yes, but so can extreme anything.
Sorry if I miss some stuff, this thread moves really fast, as I'm sure you're all aware.
edited 7th Jul '17 1:05:49 PM by AqueousBunnies
Causing freakouts over sourcing since 2018
Well, we could show the family members of the victims this and see how well it ends.
Ever since the American Internet Right started having a Pinochet fetish, I haven't been surprised by any of the shit they say recently. Even that has not changed their creative sterility.
edited 7th Jul '17 1:08:46 PM by Krieger22
I have disagreed with her a lot, but comparing her to republicans and propagandists of dictatorships is really low. - An idiot
Oh, bother.
Could we maybe not discuss a troper in this thread?
Also, the Gateway Pundit are terrible, terrible people. That's all I'm gonna say about that.
edited 7th Jul '17 1:10:56 PM by M84
Disgusted, but not surprised
X4 I feel that just gets into the realm of technicalities.
I'm more lamenting the fact that this thread couldn't retain someone who holds significantly different viewpoints. But yes, we can move on.
edited 7th Jul '17 1:15:31 PM by AqueousBunnies
use political terms to describe, not insult
Switching topics, then, G20 meeting in Hamburg
◊.
Trump already made a faux pas, he almost certainly lied about all the G20 talking shit about the DNC.
Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
@Raineh Daze: I think Hobbes' analysis, filtered a bit, is actually pretty useful. "Natural rights" don't exist and never did; rights exist only so long as a sovereign power can enforce them and should be approached on that basis. Now, like Karl Marx, his prescribed solution is kind of a bad idea, though it laid the foundations for Locke's later work.
I believe this line of argument can lead to dangerous consequences. How would you legitimize someone defending their personal rights in the face of an authoritarian then?
edited 7th Jul '17 2:41:03 PM by Elle
Would that it were so simple.
That's an incorrect reading of Hobbes, in my opinion. It's not that people don't have natural rights — they do. They have tremendous natural freedom. The trouble is that when everyone is at liberty to do whatever they want, and feel entitled to whatever they want, conflict inevitably occurs. So these natural rights are abrogated in civilization — the logical limits of a person's natural rights are not exercised, and in return, the people reap the benefits of an organized society — trade, property, skilled and unskilled labor, education, etc. The main sticking point isn't about someone having no rights that they cannot defend, it's about the state having exclusive control over lawmaking and law enforcement — which it does. People can't pass laws themselves, and while citizens' arrests are possible, they exist within the framework of the state's policing apparatus.
What I take from it, and I applied to my argument with Serenity re: libertarianism is that no man is an island. When people are allowed to profit from something that is used by everyone, but contribute nothing to its upkeep, our society suffers from an individual's selfishness. Taxation is the state's method of ensuring equitable payment for the use of common resources.
edited 7th Jul '17 3:04:10 PM by CrimsonZephyr
"For all those whose cares have been our concern, the work goes on, the cause endures, the hope still lives, and the dream shall never die."
There's at least one Republican Senator who seems to be taking the Health Care Situation seriously.
Moran feels surprising squeeze on Obamacare repeal
The Kansas Republican’s initial opposition to the Senate GOP bill underscores how broad concerns are within the party about dismantling the health law.
http://www.politico.com/story/2017/07/07/kansas-republican-feels-obamacare-squeeze-240280
A procrastination in of itself
Plenty of us have different view points, we have divisions on healthcare, foreign policy, financial regulation, racial issues, the state of the Democratic Party, education, the state of the US, the nature of US voters.
There are plenty of different viewpoints here, not everyone cares to stay and not everyone is able to make their case without breaking the rules, but that doesn't mean we don't have variety in option.
I question any assertion that tells me Mad Skills and Tactical Fox don't have significantly different viewpoints.
“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
Destroyer of Worlds
This.
And you know if you want freedom from society then you still have the freedom to escape as much of society as possible. Go join the wilderness and live it out in the woods or join an Amish community.
"You can't change the world without getting your hands dirty."
A real bad hombre
I mean, it is possible that some regulations may be outdated, poorly constructed, poorly conceived, or flat out unnecessary but the current govts approach is just reckless and dumb and you know they're going to target somewhat more necessary regulations
"I have not failed. I've just found 10,000 ways that won't work." -Thomas Edison
A procrastination in of itself
Don't the Amish still use a number of government services? Roads, police, food standard inspectors, fire department, presumably medicine inspectors, vets, hospitals?
edited 7th Jul '17 4:41:00 PM by Silasw
“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
This is correct. They will also use modern public transportation, pay taxes, work places that use power tools, etc. Their religious prohibitions are about owning modern conveniences..
....I could make a fortune renting washing machines!
Get ambitious, set up a laundromat.
edited 7th Jul '17 4:56:43 PM by sgamer82
and : Assuming, of course, that their antiquated clothes will survive our modern-day laundry machines. Otherwise, it may not be worth it for them to cease washing and drying their clothes the old-fashioned way.
Destroyer of Worlds
I was under the impression that they do this individually not as a society.
"You can't change the world without getting your hands dirty."
A procrastination in of itself
I fail to see how it makes a difference. I'd also note that they still form their own society, so one its relay getting away by going to hang out with them, they're about going back in time, not Anarchism.
There's a big chunk of Antarctica that's not claimed by any state, plus international waters and a tiny bit of dessert between Egypt and Sudan, that's probably the best bet people have of getting away from society.
Now the Somalia coast would be a great example to many, you know what happens when you do away with things like a government that regulates waste dumping in coastal waters? You entire fish population dies and all you fisherman turn into pirates.
“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
It's not just odd-people out. They actually use a surprising number of modern things and new tech is considered on a case-by-case basis by the elders (though not all are in agreement). They have to interact with "English" society; they sell goods, they may have jobs, they travel long distances to other places to meet people.
Anyway, this is a topic diversion.
edited 7th Jul '17 5:58:09 PM by Elle
The Wanderer
Montana Insurers Say Medicaid Cuts Would Drive Up Cost Of Private Health Plans
Still, the three insurers selling in Montana now say that if GOP plans to cut Medicaid and repeal the individual mandate go through, it will mean higher costs all around.
The Republicans who make up two-thirds of Montana's congressional delegation say a big reason they want to repeal the current health care law is because it's causing health insurance markets to "collapse."
But the insurance companies that sell policies in the state say that's not true in Montana — and they are concerned about what the Republicans are saying and doing.
"I don't think that [the GOP] plan is going to improve health care in the state of Montana," says Jerry Dworak, the CEO of Montana Health Co-Op. "I think just the opposite is going to happen. And I think — I really do think a lot of people are going to get hurt."
Transcript: Secretary Of State Tillerson On Trump's Meeting With Putin
If you don't feel like or lack the time to listen, it's all right here.
Eating a Vanilluxe will give you frostbite.
Tell Me, Have You Seen the Yellow Sign?
A Mix of Good, Odd, and Eye-Popping News from All Levels.
My professor is running for a state senate seat now. Then six now seven.
I think Evans has the Dems' party apparatus lining up behind her: Kasim Reed on Stacey Evans: ‘She has a powerful message’
And not least: ...liberals are transforming city politics
And in Philadelphia, a Black Lives Matter advocate won the Democratic primary in May to be the next district attorney — in a city where even Democratic law enforcement officials have traditionally taken a hard line.
"We have a president who any sentient person recognizes is a wannabe dictator," said Larry Krasner, who won the Democratic Party's primary for district attorney in Philadelphia. "That's the kind of thing that can wake you up in the morning, make you lace up your shoes, and go vote. So, yes, I think that had impact."
Krasner is the crown jewel of liberal success in local elections this year, winning a competitive multi-candidate primary in a city where the winners of Democratic primaries almost always win the general election. The civil rights attorney — an open critic of the city's police who is closely aligned with the Black Lives Matter movement — is on track to take office just eight years after the retirement of former District Attorney Lynne Abraham, who over the course of nearly two decades in office earned the moniker "Queen of Death" for the frequency with which she sought the death penalty.
Trump hasn't explicitly been at the forefront of any of these campaigns. But...
"In the Age of Trump, the political power of bold progressive visions — and the social movements that generate them — has increased substantially," said Joe Dinkin, spokesman for the unabashedly liberal Working Families Party.
The Working Families Party endorsed Lumumba, and its Pennsylvania chapter endorsed Krasner.
The national liberal groups involved in these races say they're also focused on even more obscure races than those for mayor or district attorney. Democracy for America, for instance, endorsed a candidate in a Library Board race in a western Chicago suburb, arguing that progressives should seek to press their advantage in every race.
"I don't think there's a position too small to start building progressive power, especially with all the energy you're seeing among progressives this year not just in opposing Trump, but also recognizing how important it is to push for progressive policies like minimum wage to universal health care," said Vivek Kembaiyan, DFA spokesman.
The effect of electing unapologetic liberals to local positions will be consequential immediately — Krasner supporters argue that his election literally could mean life or death for some people.
But progressive strategists are also eyeing the long-term effect of putting so many liberal candidates in local office. For a party that often looks to citywide officials as its next generation of leaders, installing progressives now means that future governors, House members and senators share the activists' liberal values.
TBF, jumping out of nowhere with how Ron Paul is a scammer who wants people to buy gold for profit
just because you're arguing with a libertarian who claims to like former Senator Paul is a bit different from what you're describing, whether Paul is really a scammer or not.
Changing topic, not being from the US, I'm not sure if this tweet by Gateway Pundit's White House correspondent of a photoshopped picture portraying Trump as a plane crashing into the WTC painted red and with the CNN logo would be offensive, care to tell me?
1 2 We are what we pretend to be, so we must be careful about what we pretend to be. -KV