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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM
I'll note that even most leftists probably don't want armed revolution except for the ones that are fucking insane. And generally there are other reasons for gun control that don't involve revolution, like "I might get attacked by someone physically stronger than me and the police won't arrive until it's too late". I mean, just because we have firefighters doesn't mean that personal fire extinguishers are a bad idea.
Basically, the problem is that Right Wing Militia fanatics (and any hypothetical leftist equivalent) are the exact sort of people you would be wanting a gun to protect yourself from.
In the case of racism, I'd say it makes sense a black person might arm themselves against racists. Not the police, mind you, just regular joe racists. Now, this could of course backfire given that police are often "selectively aggressive" but that depends on the area, your circumstances, etc.
"Any campaign world where an orc samurai can leap off a landcruiser to fight a herd of Bulbasaurs will always have my vote of confidence"
Don't want to leave but cannot pretend
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
It does remind me of after the Trump election, there were news reports of minorities buying more guns and weapons, along with the rise in hate-crimes and the like.
Per...let's just...let's just move forward, please. This will go nowhere pretty.
Like, I highly advise editing that post because I think it counts as a personal attack.
Edited by fredhot16 on May 24th 2022 at 7:27:21 AM
Trans rights are human rights. TV Tropes is not a place for bigotry, cruelty, or dickishness, no matter who or their position.
I'm not attacking anybody. Protagonist expressed his belief that only the "fucking insane" leftists seek an armed uprising. I feel it is entirely relevant to point out that, given the context that began this conversation, some of us have looser definitions of insanity than others.
Edited by Perseus on May 25th 2022 at 12:34:56 AM
Trans rights are human rights.
I'm sorry, I shouldn't have brought it up.
I don't know what I want from the world anymore. I want peace and equity, but it's all so fleeting. Impossible.
Don't want to leave but cannot pretend
Talking to Protag about that and giving the context for how this started doesn't really require calling out Fights as somebody who "loves to paint anyone who thinks the current system maybe has issues as a would-be commie revolutionary", at least in that way.
"Just a reminder, nobody was arguing here for a revolution. Fighteer brought up the revolution idea first." I think that may work better, same intent?
...
Oh, goddamn it, we made Satoshi depressed!
LOOK AT US! LOOK AT WHAT WE'RE DOING! TO EACH OTHER, TO OURSELVES!
SHOULDN'T WE BETTER THEN THIS!?
Edit: No, seriously, somebody needs to whack this thread straight.
Um...let me try a topic that's still relevant to Biden's speech...
...Um...Erm...
...Actually, what is Biden's record on gun rights and gun control, anything to point to and examine from the past?
Edited by fredhot16 on May 24th 2022 at 7:44:36 AM
Trans rights are human rights. TV Tropes is not a place for bigotry, cruelty, or dickishness, no matter who or their position.
Lost in Space
There are people in this very forum who regularly discuss revolution. It's not as much of a stretch as it sounds like. But whatever.
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
To clarify, I was stating that I believe leftists that want an armed revolution are a fringe movement that can kind of be dismissed and aren't worth discussing in this specific context.
"Any campaign world where an orc samurai can leap off a landcruiser to fight a herd of Bulbasaurs will always have my vote of confidence"
Professional Forum Ninja
In wake of all the tragedy, we had primaries in Alabama, Arkansas, Georgia, Minnesota, New York, and South Carolina and run-offs in Texas:
Alabama:
-
Republican Katie Britt for US SenateI'm wrong on this. She's winning, but not by enough to avert a run-off. - Republican Kay Ivey for governor
- Republican Dale Strong for US District 5
- Republican Sarah Huckabee Sanders for governor
- Democrat Chris Jones for governor
- Republican John Boozman for US Senate
- All Republicans running for reelection with a challenger have won their primary
- Republican Hershel Walker for US Senate
- Democrat Lucy Mc Bath for US District 7
- Democrat Jen Jordan for Attorney General
- Republican Ken Paxton for Attorney General
- Democrat Rochelle Garza for Attorney General
Just to bring it back to Uvalde: it turns out the grandmother of the shooter, who he shot first on his rampage, is actually still alive, but 1 more kid has died.
Also, the shooter was born in North Dakota and moved to Uvalde in high school.
Edited by tclittle on May 24th 2022 at 10:17:04 AM
"We're all paper, we're all scissors, we're all fightin' with our mirrors, scared we'll never find somebody to love."
And keep in mind, barring with one single case, involving a kid killing his teacher in a private school in Nuevo Leon, the rest of those deaths involve execution-style killings against very specific targets done by either gangs or drug cartels, and tradionally they ignore the rest of the students if they can.
I do get what was being said by suggesting to arm blacks...remember, the original gun control laws happened in California BECAUSE blacks were arming themselves. It's very likely it could cause some gun control on a federal level if they got guns on a national level. That however, would likely only happen with a sane political party, and one of them is currently insane and actually wants a race war (meaning it's in our best interests to NOT do this).
Edited by ScubaWolf on May 24th 2022 at 12:57:06 PM
"In a move surprising absolutely no one"
As in the running back the Minnesota Vikings traded three first-round draft picks to the Dallas Cowboys for in the early 1990s and helped the latter win three Super Bowls with those picks.
For the runoffs in Texas, Cuellar is poised to keep his seat by approximately 187 votes. However, Crockett won TX-30 in a blowout and Vallejo barely won the nomination for TX-15 by 23 votes(!). So it's definitely a mixed bag for progressives in the state tonight.
An interesting take from a reporter in Ukraine: I'm in Ukraine, a warzone. Russian attacks are constant, airstrikes hit Ukrainian cities overnight. But the first two Ukrainians I saw when I woke up today asked me about the Texas elementary school shooting where a gunman killed 19 children. "Why? How?"
I’ll just point out that the whole “arm blacks so we get gun control” thing doesn’t work out in practice. Over the past 2 years we’ve had the largest single increase in gun ownership ever, and it’s been driven almost entirely by people of color and other minority groups. Despite this, gun control efforts have not seen many successes during that period.
They should have sent a poet.
But remember, America is still more "civilized" than those "savage" countries even thought they don't have school shootings every week.
I don't know how any of fellow Americans can still say the country is superior.
Edited by NoName999 on May 25th 2022 at 12:09:06 PM
I don't think that that is particularly accurate. Also, their point is that the US gun violence is remarkable even to people in a war zone where bullets and missiles fly and kill people every hour.
eta: Upon reflection, "accurate" is better here than "honest".
Edited by SeptimusHeap on May 25th 2022 at 9:17:14 PM
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
Er, what is not particularly accuarate?
There are many many countries in the world which do a lot worse than the USA at killing their own citizens. And I don't think that what I posted about before had anything to do with anyone being superior...
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
It's not anything you said. NoName just really has an axe to grind against the Average American Citizen.
Edited by Perseus on May 26th 2022 at 5:29:03 AM
Trans rights are human rights.
I’m pretty sure the average American citizen wholeheartedly believes that the US actually is better than other countries, though.
They should have sent a poet.
Something something "nationalism is the unshakable belief that your country is better than other countries because you were born in it" something something.
Still not embarrassing enough to stan billionaires or tech companies.
Apart from revolutionary groups, I do know of some center and center-left pro-gun groups like the Liberal Gun Club and the LBGT+-focused Pink Pistols.
Edited by Negacube on May 25th 2022 at 3:39:51 PM
Has this been brought up before?
Supreme court guts lifeline for prisoners who claim wrongful convictions
In a 6 to 3 ruling, the newly-dominant rightwing majority of the nation’s highest court barred federal courts from hearing new evidence that was not previously presented in a state court as a result of the defendant’s ineffective legal representation.
The decision means that prisoners will no longer have recourse to federal judges even when they claim they were wrongfully convicted because their lawyers failed to conduct their cases properly.
The decision eviscerated the supreme court’s own precedent in a move that the three liberal justices called “illogical” and “perverse”. In a dissenting opinion, Justice Sonia Sotomayor slammed the decision, warning it would leave “many people … to face incarceration or even execution without any meaningful chance to vindicate their right to counsel”.
The ruling in Shinn v Ramirez was written by Clarence Thomas, the rightwing justice who has come to the fore as a result of the court’s sharp shift to the right following Donald Trump’s three appointments. He was supported by all five other conservative justices, including the chief justice, John Roberts.
In his opinion, Thomas presented the case as one of states’ rights. He said that federal courts should not be allowed to override the states’ “core power to enforce criminal law”.
That continues to be the case, the majority ruled, even where defendants are given bad legal advice by counsel provided for them by the very same states that are condemning them to long prison sentences or even execution.
In future, they will have no recourse to a federal court to try and reverse their wrongful conviction.
The case before the justices arose after state officials in Arizona petitioned the supreme court to prevent two of the state’s death row inmates – one with a strong case of proclaimed innocence, the other with a history of family abuse – from seeking relief in federal court from capital punishment.
The state argued that the condemned men should not be allowed to present new evidence to a federal judge when they had failed to do so previously in state court.
Lawyers for the condemned men pointed out that they had only failed to present the evidence in state court because the legal counsel they had been assigned by the state was woefully inadequate.
If they were blocked from petitioning a federal court, the men would in effect be sent to the death chamber simply because incompetent lawyers had missed a filing deadline or failed to uncover a glaring truth.
Monday’s majority ruling prompted an outpouring of angry and anguished criticism from innocence rights groups and death penalty experts.
The Innocence Project said that overturning wrongful convictions was never easy, and that “today’s supreme court decision makes it that much harder to secure justice for wrongly-convicted people”.
Thomas’s opinion also overturns previous supreme court rulings, in an abrogation of the court’s own adherence to the principle of stare decisis – that is, being faithful to precedent. In 2012 the supreme court ruled in Martinez v Ryan that prisoners could have access to federal court in cases where they had suffered from ineffective legal counsel in the state courts.
“The supreme court seems hell-bent on disrespecting precedent and rolling back rights,” said Janai Nelson, president of LDF, America’s first civil and human rights law organization.
In her dissenting opinion, Sotomayor decried the ruling. “This decision is perverse. It is illogical,” she wrote.
Sotomayor argued that under the court’s own precedent, prisoners cannot be held accountable – and effectively punished – for “their attorneys’ failures to present claims in state court”.
She concluded that as a result of the majority decision from the nine-member supreme court bench, the Sixth Amendment to the US constitution’s guarantee that criminal defendants have the right to effective legal counsel at trial “is now an empty one”.
In future, she said, prisoners who have had poor legal assistance would have no relief. “The responsibility for this devastating outcome lies not with Congress, but with this court.”
Edited by DrunkenNordmann on May 25th 2022 at 9:47:11 PM
Welcome to Estalia, gentlemen.
...This might be a fruitless tangent.
Edited by fredhot16 on May 24th 2022 at 7:16:04 AM
Trans rights are human rights. TV Tropes is not a place for bigotry, cruelty, or dickishness, no matter who or their position.