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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM
She/Her Pronouns
Jovian and Fighteer didn't like him much either, but the former posts rarely and the latter I haven't seen in a while. Especially not on this thread.
There could be others, but I've forgotten.
Edited by AzurePaladin on Nov 14th 2018 at 9:35:15 AM
The awful things he says and does are burned into our cultural consciousness like a CRT display left on the same picture too long. -Fighteer
But I use Facebook to spread propaganda videos of our feline overlords...
Edited by nightwyrm_zero on Nov 14th 2018 at 9:47:22 AM
Honestly the Sanders hype is getting to be bad enough that people outside of the US are buying into it. Since Bolsonaro's election I've been browsing brazillian twitter and a few days ago I saw someone gassing up Ojeda, and another talking about Sanders as if he was the best candidate for 2020. I'm also troubled by how the Intercept has become a regular news source for the brazilian left but i'm getting off-topic now.
Fox News's official defense of CNN is undermined by some of its most popular hosts regularly bashing it. Hell, on tonight's Tucker Note was a segment all about how much CNN sucks.
Edited by speedyboris on Nov 14th 2018 at 8:37:44 AM
Oh, bother.
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
From what you and other Brazilian posters have posted on OTC, it kind of seems like Brazil has a recurring populism problem.
Now that is more of what I've come to expect from FOX.
Edited by M84 on Nov 14th 2018 at 10:39:05 PM
Disgusted, but not surprised
Queen of Good Things, Honest
I was also against him from the start. It was a choice between Hillary Goddamn Clinton, the single most qualified person on the planet to be President, and Bernie Sanders, your racist uncle from Vermont who can't shut up about how his Single-Issue Wonk is the only thing that matters to America.
I absolutely 100% wanted Hillary to be my President. Still do. #StillWithHer
Edited by TobiasDrake on Nov 14th 2018 at 7:42:13 AM
My Tumblr. Currently liveblogging Haruhi Suzumiya and revisiting Danganronpa V3.
Unfortunately we do, and if you think the far right have made gains in the US OH BOY LET ME TELL YOU it is even worse down here (not to downplay how bad things are in the US right now, of course).
Anyways, I wasn't closely following the 2016 midterms so I didn't have much of an opinion on Sanders until later. I think the constant gaffes have kind of proven the point that at best, Sanders is not well-informed on minority issues and is too naive to understand how "identity politics" matter. And honestly at this point I think even that is generous, I wouldn't blame people for just flat out saying he's racist given how he's downplayed the racism of the WWC multiple times by now.
A procrastination in of itself
I think I’m the only person here who agreed with Sanders on a lot of stuff but hasn’t turned hard on him.
But that’s because it was never about him for me, the good ideas he puts foward stand on their own for me, it’s never been about the man, that’s always been my stance with our version of Sanders (Corbyn), men come and go, but the root ideas of uniting and helping one another, they’re what I care for.
“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
Question: Do you think any of the other Republican Candidates in 2016 would have likely won against Hillary?
Because a lot of the conservatives I know (even the pretty radical ones) weren't particularly fond of Trump in the primaries.
"Any campaign world where an orc samurai can leap off a landcruiser to fight a herd of Bulbasaurs will always have my vote of confidence"
She/Her Pronouns
Kasich or Rubio, likely. Cruz would have had a harder time of it.
Though, qualified as she was, losing to Trump makes it a bit hard to see her winning against other Republican candidates.
Edited by AzurePaladin on Nov 14th 2018 at 10:14:18 AM
The awful things he says and does are burned into our cultural consciousness like a CRT display left on the same picture too long. -Fighteer
It's too hard to say, but it's important to recognize that Donald has something that the other GOP politicians who lost to him didn't have: he stopped using the dogwhistles and instead he was just openly racist. He ran a campaign of "anti-establishment white nationalism" that no other republican did, and that was a big part of why he won in my view.
Even now we can the results of this as the candidates who win the republican primaries in various states are not the neocons, but the white supremacists/fascists/theocrats/etc.
Edited by Draghinazzo on Nov 14th 2018 at 11:17:59 AM
Servant of the Omnissiah
Or in simple terms, too many people have really not learned why being a racist douchebag is not a workable ideology anytime, but are unwilling to give up for some reason or the other (mostly just ego - not wanting to admit they got it all wrong right from the start).
Trump gave them the outlet. So they gleefully took it.
I hold the secrets of the machine.
Queen of Good Things, Honest
Because a lot of the conservatives I know (even the pretty radical ones) weren't particularly fond of Trump in the primaries.
How many of them are only paying lip service to disliking him but secretly voted for him?
Trump's popularity in 2016 was a "Who the f*ck eats at Arby's?" thing. Everyone likes to make jokes about how Arby's food is inedible and no one in their right mind would ever eat at Arby's, but Arby's stays profitable so clearly somebody's eating at Arby's. Same thing with Nickelback music.
It's the whole reason why the polls were so f*cked. A lot of people supported Trump but weren't willing to own up to supporting Trump when asked.
Despite the "Literally anybody ever could have beaten him" rhetoric that gets bandied around as an excuse to shit on Hillary, Trump won the Republican primary. The support for him was stronger than for Cruz or Kasich or Rubio. And yet, despite being the most strongly supported Republican candidate by a significant margin - He came very close to beating all of the competition combined, coming in at 44.9% of the vote with the next frontrunner being only 25.1% - Trump still barely eked out a win against Hillary, losing the popular vote by a historic 3 million votes.
The numbers do not support any idea other than that Cruz, Kasich, or Rubio would have been creamed at the polls. Most of the people who turned out for Trump weren't voting for The Republican Candidate. They were voting for Trump.
Edited by TobiasDrake on Nov 14th 2018 at 8:20:52 AM
My Tumblr. Currently liveblogging Haruhi Suzumiya and revisiting Danganronpa V3.
The "never trump" conservatives are a minority because unfortunately, most conservatives are not really voting for the GOP because of a carefully considered ideological conviction of conservative ideology like small government or fiscal responsibility. For most, it's a mask to hide what really motivates them, which is xenophobia, racism, misogyny and veneration of plutocracy/hatred for the poor.
Even Max Boot, a neocon staff member during the Bush administration and a never-trumper himself, admitted to this truth.
Edited by Draghinazzo on Nov 14th 2018 at 11:24:03 AM
Asgore Adopts Noelle
x2 Correction, the polls weren't wrong for the obvious reason (IE, they were just wrong); Hillary did win the Popular vote by 3 Million votes, which is where the Polls had her around Election Night. The problem is that the Popular Vote was concentrated in the major Liberal Cities, especially on the Coasts, but not in the Farmland and dying Suburbs that make up the rest of the Country, and it's these areas that outvoted their Cities in most States, giving them to Trump.
In short, the Polls were right, but the Methodology they were using was wrong; because (sadly) our President isn't elected by the Majority of Votes, but by the Majority of Votes in all individual States.
Edited by DingoWalley1 on Nov 14th 2018 at 10:25:00 AM
She/Her Pronouns
Two quick things: If someone else was running against Clinton in the general, that means they would have won the primary. So, they would have been the most popular GOP candidate.
2, Trump galvanized the Democrats as well. Imagine how bad the Bernie or Bust crowd would have been if they could point to, say, Kasich, and go "Look at that, they're just the same!"
The awful things he says and does are burned into our cultural consciousness like a CRT display left on the same picture too long. -Fighteer
While white nationalism is a major appeal of Trump, I do believe there's something else to note in the fact I don't believe the Republicans have mastered anything resembling appealing to their base.
Your typical Trump voter may be a middle or upper class racist BUT the 2016 Republicans make no secret of looking like Corrupt Corporate Executive scumbags who wanted to smother their grandmother and steal her teeth.
Reagan and Dubya were both elected on pretending to be folksy. Every candidate but Trump couldn't even manage that.
Their optics are terrible even if their voters hate Democrats for pizzagating liberaluminati evil plots to elect Satan.
Trump was campaigning against Republicans the way Bernie was Democrats.
Edited by CharlesPhipps on Nov 14th 2018 at 7:39:00 AM
Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
Would that it were so simple.
The only conservative at my office — Italian American, suburban former housewife, committed Catholic, general Dursley-ish personality translated to America — was absolutely committed toward Ted Cruz until he lost. Then she voted Trump, of course, because anyone who takes time out of their day to fill in a circle next to Ted Cruz's name on any ballot was never really opposed to Trump, if their natural choice was that repellent.
Republican voters see the Corrupt Corporate Executive and think: "Goddamn, I wish that was me." It's not about "folksy behavior" — or at least, that's minor compared to broader themes. Like, when you ask these people why they keep voting in the GOP when the GOP never helps them and gives rich people tax breaks, a lot of them, if pressed, admit that they genuinely believe that the fat cats deserve it.
Edited by CrimsonZephyr on Nov 14th 2018 at 10:42:40 AM
"For all those whose cares have been our concern, the work goes on, the cause endures, the hope still lives, and the dream shall never die."
One theory I had was a problem of a sort of division-a political version of Conservation of Ninjutsu. It was essentially "Trump vs. those other guys". If you were crazy, you voted for Trump. The sane people had their votes divided among all the other candidates.
@Tobias Drake: Depends on what you mean. Keep in mind the emphasis is on the words "in the primaries" here. These aren't Never Trumpers, just people who considered him their least favorite Republican candidate but were open about supporting him if he won.
IE, my Dad is definitely critical of Trump and was a staunch Rubio supporter, but openly wanted a Republican, any Republican, to win (and part of their criticism of Trump was a belief that he couldn't possibly win).
When Trump won the primaries his response was "yeah, that sucks...but maybe he can at least beat Hillary" and was overjoyed when he won. Actually election day was a pretty good day for us-it was the last day on a vacation to Disneyland and something else really good happened to him as well, too (I can't recall what).
Having said that, even for him Trump wasn't his first choice, which is part of why his victory confused me.
Edited by Protagonist506 on Nov 14th 2018 at 7:54:22 AM
"Any campaign world where an orc samurai can leap off a landcruiser to fight a herd of Bulbasaurs will always have my vote of confidence"
Queen of Good Things, Honest
Well, if you change the criteria like that, then you've turned the hypothetical "Could any of the others have beaten Hillary?" into a useless exercise in imagination. At that point, the question is, "Could, say, Kasich have beaten Hillary if he was significantly more popular than he actually was and had tons more people vote for him?"
He didn't, actually. The general atmosphere around the 2016 election was that Hillary had this in the bag and there was no reason to be worried. There was nothing to galvanize over because Hillary's victory was a Foregone Conclusion. People all over the country, both Democrats and Republicans, were convinced that a Trump win was literally impossible.
Colbert even did a musical number called "Death, Taxes, and Hillary", a play on the old adage, "Nothing in this world is certain except death and taxes." It's a catchy little number, though rather tragic to listen to these days.
Trump only galvanized Democrats after the wake-up call that was him actually winning 2016 - leaving a lot of people with a bitter taste in their mouth, trying to figure out where their comprehension of America had let them down.
Edited by TobiasDrake on Nov 14th 2018 at 9:31:16 AM
My Tumblr. Currently liveblogging Haruhi Suzumiya and revisiting Danganronpa V3.
She/Her Pronouns
I do believe a lot of people would have been much more shameless in voting for not Clinton in that case. So it could go either way. I'm not sure how many people would have voted for her if they didn't think the opponent was so open in their awfulness.
Having said that? Touche. I did forget just how inevitable her victory seemed at the time.
>Death, Taxes, Hillary: Oh, yeah, I remember that. Yeah, that song, while technically pleasant to listen to, has aged akin to a carton of milk left on a counter top for the same amount of time.
The awful things he says and does are burned into our cultural consciousness like a CRT display left on the same picture too long. -Fighteer
I tend to think any of them could've won- the winning formula that Trump managed to discover in the last two weeks was 'Manage, for once in your life, to not cause any new scandals for the rest of the month, and fight your every instinct by staying out of the limelight while Comey makes people care about those dumb Emails again'. He was on track to lose badly until he hatched that brainchild, but then Hillary's lead in the polls swiftly eroded until a fairly routine polling error was enough for Trump to win.
I don't think any of them would've had a hard time implementing that strategy, and there's the possibility of them doing other things right that Trump didn't, like 'don't get destroyed in the debates' and 'don't have tapes of you bragging about sexual assault surface in October'.
Oh, bother.
Again, fuck Comey.
Disgusted, but not surprised
Wasn't the "death, taxes, Hillary" thing about her primary victory?
"And as long as a sack of shit is not a good thing to be, chivalry will never die."
And in this case we aren't choosing between him and some greater evil. Also...he's not the Democratic candidate. He never was. He lost the primaries. And he's not even a Democratic Party member now.
There's a reason a lot of people here who were supporters of him are now among his more vocal critics here. I think I might be one of the only regulars who never approved of him from the start.
Edited by M84 on Nov 14th 2018 at 10:32:31 PM
Disgusted, but not surprised