Follow TV Tropes

Following

The General US Politics Thread

Go To

Nov 2023 Mod notice:


There may be other, more specific, threads about some aspects of US politics, but this one tends to act as a hub for all sorts of related news and information, so it's usually one of the busiest OTC threads.

If you're new to OTC, it's worth reading the Introduction to On-Topic Conversations and the On-Topic Conversations debate guidelines before posting here.

Rumor-based, fear-mongering and/or inflammatory statements that damage the quality of the thread will be thumped. Off-topic posts will also be thumped. Repeat offenders may be suspended.

If time spent moderating this thread remains a distraction from moderation of the wiki itself, the thread will need to be locked. We want to avoid that, so please follow the forum rules when posting here.


In line with the general forum rules, 'gravedancing' is prohibited here. If you're celebrating someone's death or hoping that they die, your post will get thumped. This rule applies regardless of what the person you're discussing has said or done.

Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

KarkatTheDalek Not as angry as the name would suggest. from Somwhere in Time/Space Since: Mar, 2012 Relationship Status: You're a beautiful woman, probably
Not as angry as the name would suggest.
#258276: Oct 20th 2018 at 10:46:11 PM

I'll admit, I'm kind of curious what Kanye would actually do if he became President.

Not enough for me to actually want him in office, of course.

Oh God! Natural light!
AngelusNox The law in the night from somewhere around nothing Since: Dec, 2014 Relationship Status: Married to the job
The law in the night
#258277: Oct 20th 2018 at 10:46:25 PM

Hell, bets are that Sanders will probably kick the bucket by 2020, so I wouldn't count on him running for president.

[up]

Probably breaking into Noble Prize nominations and Imma let you finish but Obama had the best Nobel Peace Price of all time!

Edited by AngelusNox on Oct 20th 2018 at 2:48:21 PM

Inter arma enim silent leges
Ludlow Since: Apr, 2013
#258278: Oct 20th 2018 at 11:08:56 PM

[up] Yeah, Sanders might be old but he's still in good health as far as we know. And despite his unpopularity here he does have a whole lot of loyal supporters among independents and Democrats. Will that win him the nomination? Well, it didn't last time around, so who knows. I wouldn't reject the possibility out of hand, however.

TheRoguePenguin Since: Jul, 2009
#258279: Oct 20th 2018 at 11:23:19 PM

Assuming Hillary doesn't run again and the field is more crowded, Bernie would have better odds. A smaller field would hit or miss, depending on who he was running against.

Ultimatum Disasturbator from Second Star to the left (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Wishfully thinking
Disasturbator
#258280: Oct 21st 2018 at 6:15:44 AM

> I'll admit, I'm kind of curious what Kanye would actually do if he became President.

Given how he has zero political experience or skill he would achieve little on his own,more experienced politicans would quickly run rings around him,he'd be useful as a puppet though,like Trump.

Edit:And given his links to the music industry their lobbyist would jump at the chance for musical president if it meant passing laws they were in favour of

Edited by Ultimatum on Oct 21st 2018 at 6:20:43 AM

New theme music also a box
Deadbeatloser22 from Disappeared by Space Magic (Great Old One) Relationship Status: Tsundere'ing
#258281: Oct 21st 2018 at 6:24:27 AM

I thought the RIAA already had Congress by the balls though.

Speaking of, when are we next due for the copyright duration to be extended?

Edited by Deadbeatloser22 on Oct 21st 2018 at 2:25:45 PM

"Yup. That tasted purple."
Ultimatum Disasturbator from Second Star to the left (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Wishfully thinking
Disasturbator
#258282: Oct 21st 2018 at 6:27:13 AM

So do the NRA and every other lobbist group unfortunately

New theme music also a box
Mio Since: Jan, 2001
#258283: Oct 21st 2018 at 6:31:14 AM

[up][up]Well Mickey Mouse just turned 90 this year, and it's been 62 years or so since Walt died so we are probably looking at some time early to mid next decade for the next big copyright extension.

As an aside I really hope Biden doesn’t run, even though I am sure he will and will probably even get the nomination.

Edited by Mio on Oct 21st 2018 at 10:32:25 AM

fruitpork Since: Oct, 2010
#258284: Oct 21st 2018 at 8:21:43 AM

Actually they’ve said they’re not interested in extending it anymore. They have other priorities now.

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#258285: Oct 21st 2018 at 8:29:22 AM

Mickey Mouse is a trademark anyway. And trademarks don't expire.

Ultimatum Disasturbator from Second Star to the left (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Wishfully thinking
Disasturbator
#258286: Oct 21st 2018 at 8:31:32 AM

They do actually,A Google search reveals in America its 10 years

Edited by Ultimatum on Oct 21st 2018 at 8:32:02 AM

New theme music also a box
Deadbeatloser22 from Disappeared by Space Magic (Great Old One) Relationship Status: Tsundere'ing
#258287: Oct 21st 2018 at 8:32:42 AM

Trump Administration Eyes Defining Transgender Out of Existence

    Full Text 
WASHINGTON - The Trump administration is considering narrowly defining gender as a biological, immutable condition determined by genitalia at birth, the most drastic move yet in a governmentwide effort to roll back recognition and protections of transgender people under federal civil rights law.

A series of decisions by the Obama administration loosened the legal concept of sex in federal programs, including in education and health care, recognizing sex largely as an individual's choice - and prompting fights over bathrooms, dormitories, single-sex programs and other arenas where gender was once seen as a simple concept. Conservatives, especially evangelical Christians, were incensed.

Now the Department of Health and Human Services is spearheading an effort to establish a legal definition of sex under Title IX, the federal civil rights law that bans gender discrimination in education programs that receive government financial assistance, according to a memo obtained by The New York Times.

The department argued in its memo that key government agencies needed to adopt an explicit and uniform definition of gender as determined "on a biological basis that is clear, grounded in science, objective and administrable." The agency's proposed definition would define sex as either male or female, unchangeable, and determined by the genitals that a person is born with, according to a draft reviewed by The Times. Any dispute about one's sex would have to be clarified using genetic testing.

"Sex means a person's status as male or female based on immutable biological traits identifiable by or before birth," the department proposed in the memo, which was drafted and has been circulating since last spring. "The sex listed on a person's birth certificate, as originally issued, shall constitute definitive proof of a person's sex unless rebutted by reliable genetic evidence."

The new definition would essentially eradicate federal recognition of the estimated 1.4 million Americans who have opted to recognize themselves - surgically or otherwise - as a gender other than the one they were born into.

"This takes a position that what the medical community understands about their patients - what people understand about themselves - is irrelevant because the government disagrees," said Catherine E. Lhamon, who led the Education Department's Office for Civil Rights in the Obama administration and helped write transgender guidance that is being undone.

The move would be the most significant of a series of maneuvers, large and small, to exclude the population from civil rights protections and roll back the Obama administration's more fluid recognition of gender identity. The Trump administration has sought to bar transgender people from serving in the military and has legally challenged civil rights protections for the group embedded in the nation's health care law.

Several agencies have withdrawn Obama-era policies that recognized gender identity in schools, prisons and homeless shelters. The administration even tried to remove questions about gender identity from a 2020 census survey and a national survey of elderly citizens.

For the last year, health and human services has privately argued that the term "sex" was never meant to include gender identity or even homosexuality, and that the lack of clarity allowed the Obama administration to wrongfully extend civil rights protections to people who should not have them.

Roger Severino, the director of the Office for Civil Rights at the Department of Health and Human Services, declined to answer detailed questions about the memo or his role in interagency discussions about how to revise the definition of sex under Title IX.

But officials at the Department of Health and Human Services confirmed that their push to limit the definition of sex for the purpose of federal civil rights laws resulted from their own reading of the laws and from a court decision.

Mr. Severino, while serving as the head of the DeVos Center for Religion and Civil Society at the Heritage Foundation, was among the conservatives who blanched at the Obama administration's expansion of sex to include gender identity, which he called "radical gender ideology."

In one commentary piece, he called the policies a "culmination of a series of unilateral, and frequently lawless, administration attempts to impose a new definition of what it means to be a man or a woman on the entire nation."

"Transgender people are frightened," said Sarah Warbelow, the legal director of the Human Rights Campaign, which presses for the rights of lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender people. "At every step where the administration has had the choice, they've opted to turn their back on transgender people."

The Department of Health and Human Services has called on the "Big Four" agencies that enforce some part of Title IX - the Departments of Education, Justice, Health and Human Services, and Labor - to adopt its definition in regulations that will establish uniformity in the government and increase the likelihood that courts will accept it.

The definition is integral to two proposed rules currently under review at the White House: One from the Education Department deals with complaints of sex discrimination at schools and colleges receiving federal financial assistance; the other, from health and human services, deals with health programs and activities that receive federal funds or subsidies. Both regulations are expected to be released this fall, and would then be open for public comment, typically for 60 days. The agencies would consider the comments before issuing final rules with the force of law — both of which could include the new gender definition.

Civil rights groups have been meeting with federal officials in recent weeks to argue against the proposed definition, which has divided career and political appointees across the administration. Some officials hope that health and human services will at least rein in the most extreme parts, such as the call for genetic testing to determine sex.

After more than a year of discussions, health and human services is preparing to formally present the new definition to the Justice Department before the end of the year, Trump administration officials say. If the Justice Department decides that the change is legal, the new definition can be approved and enforced in Title IX statutes, and across government agencies.

The Justice Department declined to comment on the draft health and human services proposal. The Justice Department has not yet been asked to render a formal legal opinion, according to an official there who was not authorized to speak about the process.

But Attorney General Jeff Sessions’s previous decisions on transgender protections have given civil rights advocates little hope that the department will prevent the new definition from being enforced. The proposal appears consistent with the position he took in an October 2017 memo sent to agencies clarifying that the civil rights law that prohibits job discrimination does not cover "gender identity, per se."

Harper Jean Tobin, the policy director of the National Center for Transgender Equality, an advocacy group, called the maneuvering "an extremely aggressive legal position that is inconsistent with dozens of federal court decisions."

Health and human services officials said they were only abiding by court orders, referring to the rulings of Judge Reed O’Connor of the Federal District Court in Fort Worth, Tex., a George W. Bush appointee who has held that "Congress did not understand 'sex' to include 'gender identity.'"

A 2016 ruling by Judge O'Connor concerned a rule that was adopted to carry out a civil rights statute embedded in the Affordable Care Act. The provision prohibits discrimination based on race, color, national origin, sex, age or disability in "any health program or activity" that receives federal financial assistance.

But in recent discussions with the administration, civil rights groups, including Lambda Legal, have pointed to other court cases. In a legal memo presented to the administration, a coalition of civil rights groups wrote, "The overwhelming majority of courts to address the question since the most relevant Supreme Court precedent in 1998 have held that antitransgender bias constitutes sex discrimination under federal laws like Title IX."

Indeed, the health and human services proposal was prompted, in part, by pro-transgender court decisions in the last year that upheld the Obama administration's position.

In their memo, health and human services officials wrote that "courts and plaintiffs are racing to get decisions" ahead of any rule-making, because of the lack of a stand-alone definition.

"Courts and the previous administration took advantage of this circumstance to include gender identity and sexual orientation in a multitude of agencies, and under a multitude of laws," the memo states. Doing so "led to confusion and negative policy consequences in health care, education and other federal contexts."

The narrower definition would be acutely felt in schools and their most visible battlegrounds: locker rooms and bathrooms.

One of the Trump administration's first decisive policy acts was the rescission by the Education and Justice Departments of Obama-era guidelines that protected transgender students who wanted to use bathrooms that correspond to their gender identity.

Since the guidance was rescinded, the Education Department's Office for Civil Rights has halted and dismissed discrimination cases filed by transgender students over access to school facilities. A restrictive governmentwide definition would cement the Education Department’s current approach.

But it would also raise new questions.

The department would have to decide what documentation schools would be required to collect to determine or codify gender. Title IX applies to a number of educational experiences, such as sports and single-sex classes or programs where gender identity has come into play. The department has said it will continue to open cases where transgender students face discrimination, bullying and harassment, and investigate gender-based harassment as "unwelcome conduct based on a student's sex" or "harassing conduct based on a student's failure to conform to sex stereotypes."

The Education Department did not respond to an inquiry about the health and human services proposal.

Ms. Lhamon of the Obama Education Department said the proposed definition "quite simply negates the humanity of people."

[

...remember how we kept being told over and over that the Trump administration would never ever ever do anything to harm the LGBT community and fully supported it?

"Yup. That tasted purple."
Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#258288: Oct 21st 2018 at 8:42:52 AM

...remember how we kept being told over and over that the Trump administration would never ever ever do anything to harm the LGBT community and fully supported it?

Mostly by liars or morons.

The only people who believe this are either Republicans or aligned with Republicans and want to pretend that they aren't supporting naked prejudice.

Edited by Fourthspartan56 on Oct 21st 2018 at 11:43:51 AM

"Sandwiches are probably easier to fix than the actual problems" -Hylarn
Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#258289: Oct 21st 2018 at 8:43:07 AM

Oh, look. Republicans are being evil fuckers again. What a surprise that no one could have possibly predicted.

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
Pseudopartition Screaming Into The Void from The Cretaeceous Since: Dec, 2013 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
Screaming Into The Void
#258290: Oct 21st 2018 at 9:13:01 AM

I think I feel physically ill.

It'd be nice if people would stop pretending that the idea of a gender or sex binary has a scientific basis. Of course, these are the same people who do not think anthropogenic global warming has one, so this is about what I would have expected.

megaeliz Since: Mar, 2017
#258291: Oct 21st 2018 at 9:24:51 AM

[up] It’s frustrating that people don’t understand the difference between Sex and Gender, either.

Sex refers to the physical and physiological characteristics between male and female, while Gender is the psychology and sociology of how we understand and relate to the differences between Sexs.

Edited by megaeliz on Oct 21st 2018 at 12:44:19 PM

MorningStar1337 Like reflections in the glass! from 🤔 Since: Nov, 2012
Like reflections in the glass!
#258292: Oct 21st 2018 at 9:29:52 AM

[up]That in itself need to be addressed. The idea that sex and gender are synonyms is a key facet of the binary gender narrative, as well as the underlying implication that one (gender) is determined by the other (sex).

Edited by MorningStar1337 on Oct 21st 2018 at 9:33:10 AM

Pseudopartition Screaming Into The Void from The Cretaeceous Since: Dec, 2013 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
Screaming Into The Void
#258293: Oct 21st 2018 at 9:41:54 AM

A sex binary doesn't even actually exist in humans, as anyone who is intersex can tell you.

SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#258294: Oct 21st 2018 at 9:53:18 AM

Er, intersex is very rare and there are often underlying genetic anomalies. So in that biological sense assuming only two sexes makes sense. (Note that "sex" vs. "gender" distinctions matter here; for the purpose of my statement gender is the brain concept and sex the genitalia concept)

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#258295: Oct 21st 2018 at 10:09:11 AM

I'm fairly certain that isn't true

It's only useful from a "common sense" perspective that ignores all the ways that it's just incorrect. Which makes its use... rather questionable.

"Sandwiches are probably easier to fix than the actual problems" -Hylarn
megaeliz Since: Mar, 2017
#258296: Oct 21st 2018 at 10:38:20 AM

[up] I wouldn’t say it’s completely useless. The basic physological differences between Sexes, can affect risk factors of certain diseases, symptom presentation, and response to treatment.

Are you male or female? The answer to this seemingly simple question can have a major impact on your health. While both sexes are similar in many ways, researchers have found that sex and social factors can make a difference when it comes to your risk for disease, how well you respond to medications, and how often you seek medical care. That’s why scientists are taking a closer look at the links between sex, gender, and health.

Many people use the words sex and gender interchangeably, but they’re distinct concepts to scientists.

Defining Differences — Sex is biological. It’s based on your genetic makeup. Males have one X and one Y chromosome in every cell of the body. Females have two X chromosomes in every cell. These cells make up all your tissues and organs, including your skin, heart, stomach, muscles, and brain.

Gender is a social or cultural concept. It refers to the roles, behaviors, and identities that society assigns to girls and boys, women and men, and gender-diverse people. Gender is determined by how we see ourselves and each other, and how we act and interact with others. There’s a lot of diversity in how individuals and groups understand, experience, and express gender. Because gender influences our behaviors and relationships, it can also affect health.

Influence on health— “Sex and gender play a role in how health and disease affect individuals. There was a time when we studied men and applied those findings to women, but we’ve learned that there are distinct biological differences between women and men,” explains Dr. Janine Austin Clayton, who heads research on women’s health at NIH. “Women and men have different hormones, different organs, and different cultural influences—all of which can lead to differences in health.”

As scientists learn more about the biology of males and females, they’re uncovering the influences of both sex and gender in many areas of health.

For instance, women and men can have different symptoms during a heart attack. For both men and women, the most common heart attack symptom is chest pain or discomfort. But women are more likely than men to have shortness of breath, nausea and vomiting, fatigue, and pain in the back, shoulders, and jaw. Knowing about such differences can lead to better diagnoses and outcomes.

Men and women also tend to have different responses to pain. NIH-funded researchers recently learned that different cells in male and female mice drive pain processing.

“Without studying both sexes, we wouldn’t know if we’re taking steps in the right direction toward appropriate clinical treatment for men and women,” Clayton says. “Our differences also affect how we respond to medications, as well as which diseases and conditions we may be prone to and how those diseases progress in our bodies.” For example, women metabolize nicotine faster than men, so nicotine replacement therapies can be less effective in women.

Edited by megaeliz on Oct 21st 2018 at 1:46:25 PM

Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#258297: Oct 21st 2018 at 10:48:45 AM

[up]Acknowledging the differences between males and females is not useless.

Considering it a binary is.

This doesn't contradict my position.

Edited by Fourthspartan56 on Oct 21st 2018 at 1:53:32 PM

"Sandwiches are probably easier to fix than the actual problems" -Hylarn
megaeliz Since: Mar, 2017
#258298: Oct 21st 2018 at 10:57:24 AM

[up]. Maybe then I just misunderstood?

Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#258299: Oct 21st 2018 at 10:59:58 AM

That would make sense.

I was arguing against the position that assuming only two sexes is fine, it's just not scientifically accurate and thus should not be done. I don't see how it offers any benefits.

"Sandwiches are probably easier to fix than the actual problems" -Hylarn
math792d Since: Jun, 2011 Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#258300: Oct 21st 2018 at 11:19:22 AM

But remember, it's the Democrats who are 'too focused on identity politics' to be able to tacke the real, pressing issues.

/s

Still not embarrassing enough to stan billionaires or tech companies.

Total posts: 417,856
Top