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BlueNinja0 The Mod with the Migraine from Taking a left at Albuquerque Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
The Mod with the Migraine
#255026: Sep 18th 2018 at 11:01:11 AM

On a different note than the GOP every-man's-a-rapist defense of Kavanaugh, the cops in Massachusets are blatantly spying on left-wing activist groups while yawning about Neo-Nazis.

    Full article text 
Emphasis mine.
The Massachusetts State Police Department tweeted a screenshot of a computer monitor Thursday to help illustrate the extent of a series of gas explosions and fires that had occurred throughout Lawrence, Andover, and North Andover, Massachusetts. One person has died and about 20 more are injured, according to WBUR, Boston’s public radio station.

The screenshot of a browser, which has now been deleted, included a map of the affected area, an update on the number of homes impacted, and a warning that anyone who smells gas should evacuate immediately. But that’s not all the tweet shared. The image appears to be a photo taken by a smartphone of a computer screen at the police department, and the browser containing the map had a row of bookmarks—bookmarks that include pages of left-wing activist Facebook groups. Oops?

While no activist should be surprised that police are tracking them, the concentration of left-wing activist groups at the top of the browser, ostensibly to navigate to the pages regularly and quickly, was a rare if inadvertent official acknowledgement of this kind of tabs-keeping. The Facebook groups that were bookmarked include Massachusetts Action Against Police Brutality (MAAPB), which organizes to end police brutality and shares stories of police killings, the Coalition to Organize and Mobilize Boston Against Trump (COMBAT), and a link to a website called “Resistance Calendar,” which posts Trump-opposition events across the country. There did not appear to be tabs on this particular computer for right-wing political groups that organize online, but perhaps those bookmarks could be found on another department computer.

In a statement to WBUR, the state police didn’t deny their surveillance of activist groups, but added that they monitor public gatherings. “We, obviously, need to know if large numbers of people, for whatever reason, are going to be on public roadways or public spaces, so that we may ensure the safety and rights of those who have gathered as well as of the members of the public around them,” the state police said. Neither MAAPB nor COMBAT appear to have any upcoming events, though.

It seems like there are lessons here for everyone. For activists, particularly those who criticize police or the political party currently in power, it’s a reminder that indeed they are being watched and might want to do more of their organizing in more encrypted, privacy-protecting place. And for the cops, while it’s important to be transparent, maybe take a beat to crop your screenshots before posting them to social media, especially if they contain people’s personal information, like activist names and photos for example. You don’t even need to snap a smartphone pic. Command-shift-4: keystrokes to live by.

Maybe all the Boston Nazis took a trip to the London Bridge in Arizona. Also, stop giving the cops ideas, it's not like they have a difficult job getting borderline illegal surveillance approved, or get punished if they do it anyway.

That’s the epitome of privilege right there, not considering armed nazis a threat to your life. - Silasw
Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#255027: Sep 18th 2018 at 11:02:33 AM

I've said it before but I'll say it again, local law enforcement give people reason to hate them.

"Sandwiches are probably easier to fix than the actual problems" -Hylarn
Grafite Since: Apr, 2016 Relationship Status: Less than three
#255028: Sep 18th 2018 at 11:10:06 AM

[up][up] That defense won't fly in today's society. Sure, a reasonable part of Trump's base are men who wish they had as much as Trump so they could freely grope women, but not most of the country.

Also, senators got a lot of flak for ignoring Anita Hill's testimony against Clarence Thomas back in 1991, they'll probably try not to repeat those mistakes again.

Life is unfair...
Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#255029: Sep 18th 2018 at 11:13:57 AM

That defense won't fly in today's society. Sure, a reasonable part of Trump's base are men who wish they had as much as Trump so they could freely grope women, but not most of the country.

Also, senators got a lot of flak for ignoring Anita Hill's testimony against Clarence Thomas back in 1991, they'll probably try not to repeat those mistakes again.

Yeah it may not have sunk Thomas but our society is greatly different and thus the odds are probably strongly against Kavanaugh, which if anything is a wonderful barometer of how far we've come.

"Sandwiches are probably easier to fix than the actual problems" -Hylarn
sgamer82 Since: Jan, 2001
#255030: Sep 18th 2018 at 11:16:48 AM

Also, senators got a lot of flak for ignoring Anita Hill's testimony against Clarence Thomas back in 1991, they'll probably try not to repeat those mistakes again.
The problem is that would require Republicans to acknowledge they made a mistake and resolve not to repeat it.

How likely is that?

Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#255031: Sep 18th 2018 at 11:17:55 AM

The problem is that would require Republicans to acknowledge they made a mistake and resolve not to repeat it. How likely is that?

Um no it doesn't, it just requires Flake to defect and oppose the confirmation.

Which seems very likely at this juncture.

"Sandwiches are probably easier to fix than the actual problems" -Hylarn
BlueNinja0 The Mod with the Migraine from Taking a left at Albuquerque Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
The Mod with the Migraine
#255032: Sep 18th 2018 at 11:21:28 AM

That defense won't fly in today's society. Sure, a reasonable part of Trump's base are men who wish they had as much as Trump so they could freely grope women, but not most of the country.
While I hope that's true, look at the quotes from the articles I posted last page. That is the GOP defense of Kavanaugh. Like we noted with Al Franken, the GOP firmly believes that it's not rape if they do it.
Also, senators got a lot of flak for ignoring Anita Hill's testimony against Clarence Thomas back in 1991, they'll probably try not to repeat those mistakes again.
But almost the whole GOP is already ignoring, if not actively criticizing, the testimony against Kavanaugh.

That’s the epitome of privilege right there, not considering armed nazis a threat to your life. - Silasw
PhysicalStamina (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#255033: Sep 18th 2018 at 11:22:23 AM

[up][up]Mmm, does it, though?

Edited by PhysicalStamina on Sep 18th 2018 at 2:21:53 PM

It's one thing to make a spectacle. It's another to make a difference.
Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#255034: Sep 18th 2018 at 11:25:00 AM

While I hope that's true, look at the quotes from the articles I posted last page. That is the GOP defense of Kavanaugh. Like we noted with Al Franken, the GOP firmly believes that it's not rape if they do it.

I will point out that this doesn't really contradict what they said, yes there are men who still believe that but our society has massively improved since the Thomas confirmation and thus by extension there is a very good chance that Kavanaugh will not be confirmed.

Mmm, does it, though?

Yes it does.

Edited by Fourthspartan56 on Sep 18th 2018 at 2:24:37 PM

"Sandwiches are probably easier to fix than the actual problems" -Hylarn
Parable Since: Aug, 2009
#255035: Sep 18th 2018 at 11:32:36 AM

Also, senators got a lot of flak for ignoring Anita Hill's testimony against Clarence Thomas back in 1991, they'll probably try not to repeat those mistakes again.

Some of them flat out lost their seats over it. The 1992 elections saw the Year of the Woman, with several women all running for senator seats in response to the botching of Thomas' hearing. Among them, amusingly enough, was Feinstein.

Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#255036: Sep 18th 2018 at 11:44:53 AM

Some of them flat out lost their seats over it. The 1992 elections saw the Year of the Woman, with several women all running for senator seats in response to the botching of Thomas' hearing. Among them, amusingly enough, was Feinstein.

Wow, it's poetic that things seem to have gone full circle.

"Sandwiches are probably easier to fix than the actual problems" -Hylarn
wisewillow She/her Since: May, 2011
She/her
#255037: Sep 18th 2018 at 12:11:13 PM

I just don’t trust Flake to back up his talk with action. He’s all bluster.

tclittle Professional Forum Ninja from Somewhere Down in Texas Since: Apr, 2010
Professional Forum Ninja
#255038: Sep 18th 2018 at 12:47:15 PM

Manafort's plea deal says that if his convictions are wiped for any reason, prosecutors will charge him for any other crimes he committed or confessed to while under negotiations.

TL;DR: Manafort is going to be fucked even harder if Trump pardons him.

EDIT: Added in article, and it does seem like this plea aggreement was Rules Lawered heavily.

    Article 
Special counsel Robert Mueller’s plea agreement with Paul Manafort on Friday took unusual and possibly unprecedented steps to undercut President Donald Trump’s ability to pardon his former campaign chairman.

The plea deal Mueller struck with Manafort contains several provisions that appear intended to discourage the former Trump aide from seeking a pardon and to rein in the impact of any pardon Trump might grant.

Legal experts with sweeping views of executive power and attorneys who advocate for broad use of clemency criticized what they call an effort by Mueller’s team to tie the president’s hands.

“What is most concerning to me is that Mr. Mueller, who is a part of the executive branch and is supposed to follow all of DOJ’s policies and procedures, is specifically seeking to impede the ability of the president to exercise his constitutional pardon authority,” said David Rivkin, a Justice Department official under Presidents Ronald Reagan and George W. Bush.

“These waivers are troubling because they have to do with future events we can’t predict,” University of St. Thomas law professor Mark Osler said, referring to provisions in the plea deal. “They did a pretty good job hiding what they did, but as part of these agreements, sometimes the most important things you want to bury it a little.”

The 17-page deal doesn’t explicitly prohibit Manafort from seeking a pardon, but some lawyers said it appears to extract a promise from Manafort not to seek another form of executive clemency that could relieve him of the obligation to turn over property worth tens of millions of dollars to the government as part of the plea bargain. The agreement also says prosecutors can come after the five identified homes or apartments, three bank accounts and a life insurance policy now or at any point in the future "without regard to the status of his criminal conviction."

Another part of the deal says that if Manafort’s guilty pleas or convictions are wiped out for any reason, prosecutors immediately have the right to charge him with any other crimes he may have committed previously or confessed to during recent plea negotiations.

Osler said he objects to some of the provisions in the plea deal as going too far to close off legitimate routes a defendant should be able to use to raise potential unfairness.

"It does appear this document was created with clemency in mind," said Osler. "If this plays out ... and later we get a pardon of some kind, we're going to have a lot of questions of first impression, I think. Then, we're going to be in the courts on this, and it'll be fascinating."

The inclusion of a section barring Manafort from filing any "petition of remission" troubled some advocates because it appears to prohibit not just a request to the Justice Department but also directing such a request to the president.

A Justice Department regulation blesses the use of such language in plea deals but seems aimed solely at the agency's internal process and not the president's parallel power.

"It is proper to include in a settlement agreement a provision that expressly leaves open or expressly forecloses the right of any party to file a petition for remission or mitigation," the regulation says.

A spokesman for Mueller's office declined to comment on the provisions in the Manafort deal or to say whether they have appeared in other plea deals in the past.

However, some attorneys said they don't think the language in the plea agreement is far from what the Justice Department has done in other cases where defendants are asked to waive numerous rights.

"It always feels like if they're not overreaching, they're heavy-handed, but it's to my sense standard-issue heavy-handed," said Ohio State University law professor Doug Berman.

U.S. District Court Judge Amy Berman Jackson on Friday formally accepted Manafort's guilty plea to two felony conspiracy counts. It came on the eve of a scheduled jury trial at which the former Trump campaign official faced charges of failing to register as a foreign agent, money laundering and witness tampering. Last month, at a federal trial in Virginia, Manafort was convicted on eight other felony charges, including tax fraud and bank fraud.

Under the plea bargain, the 69-year-old Manafort faces up to 10 years in prison in the D.C. case. He could receive up to 80 years on the charges filed in Virginia, but the sentence there will probably be far less. Prosecutors promised to request that the sentences run concurrently.

At the hearing Friday, Jackson discussed several provisions in the plea agreement with Manafort but did not specifically address what might play out if he sought clemency from the president or obtained a pardon. The judge did note that he was waiving the statute of limitations.

"If for some reason this plea is set aside and these charges are brought in the future, you're waiving your right to say, well, it's too late to bring those charges against me?" she said. She did ask Manafort if he understood that he was forfeiting "a considerable amount of property." He said he did.

Legal experts said that, ultimately, if Trump wants to pardon Manafort, he can do so, but to make the pardon effective he might have to word it so broadly that it covers not only the things the former Trump campaign chair was charged with but things he wasn't.

Trump might also have to make clear what, if any, property he's trying to restore to Manafort.

"The president could make a pardon as sweeping as the president chose to, as long as it doesn't apply to prospective crimes," said former federal prosecutor Andrew Mc Carthy. He also said the plea agreement is replete with indications that prosecutors were gaming out a potential clemency action from Trump.

"I have no doubt that they were thinking about that as they were going through it," Mc Carthy said. "If they're going to do this, they have every reason to do it and justify it, but be honest about it," he said, adding that he saw several "potential time bombs seeded" into the deal.

Edited by tclittle on Sep 18th 2018 at 2:52:28 PM

"We're all paper, we're all scissors, we're all fightin' with our mirrors, scared we'll never find somebody to love."
Larkmarn Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Hello, I love you
#255039: Sep 18th 2018 at 1:00:16 PM

I... legitimately don't know how I feel about that.

Like, couldn't happen to a shittier shit, but that is dangerously uncomfortable precedent.

Found a Youtube Channel with political stances you want to share? Hop on over to this page and add them.
Gilphon Since: Oct, 2009
#255040: Sep 18th 2018 at 1:11:18 PM

I feel like if Trump was going to pardon Manafort, he would've done it by now- Trump's strategy has been to distance himself from Manafort as completely as possible, and that plan is mutually exclusive with pardoning him. And I think Manafort sees that; he was probably counting on Trump pardoning him when he went into the trial, and now that that doesn't seem to be happening, he's going with co-operating instead. Which makes it even less likely that Trump will pardon him, given how the man's petty mind works.

Which is probably why Manafort agreed to that deal- giving up the chance to benefit from a pardon doesn't mean much if that pardon's not going to happen.

ironballs16 Since: Jul, 2009 Relationship Status: Owner of a lonely heart
#255041: Sep 18th 2018 at 1:13:50 PM

[up][up]

Well, it was a plea deal - Manafort could either accept it, walk away, or negotiate for a better bargain. He did the former, and likely in part because that was the only way Prosecutors would allow the deal to happen in the first place.

"Why would I inflict myself on somebody else?"
megaeliz Since: Mar, 2017
#255042: Sep 18th 2018 at 1:14:04 PM

here’s Renato’s Mariotti’s take on the plea deal itself, for a second opinion.

1/ The Manafort plea agreement has been released, and it gives us a lot of information about what Manafort is facing and what he gains from the deal with Mueller.

2/ The main benefit to Manafort is that it caps his potential sentence in the D.C. case to ten years because Mueller let him plead guilty to only two counts. It turns out that it’s a significant benefit to Manafort because the Sentencing Guidelines range is 210 to 262 months.

3/ The Guidelines are advisory, so judges often go below the Guidelines range. But it’s unlikely Manafort would have received a sentence of 120 months or less from Judge Jackson (the D.C. judge) without this deal. Now she can’t go over 120 months unless the deal goes south.

4/ Manafort still faces a sentence in the Virginia case, which could run consecutive to the sentence in the D.C. case. (It could also run concurrently—in other words, along side the D.C. sentence.)

As part of the deal, Manafort agrees not to appeal the Virginia case at all.

5/ In addition, prosecutors agreed to tell the court the extent of Manafort’s cooperation and, if warranted, make a motion for the judge to go below the Guidelines range in sentencing Manafort. That’s a central part of any cooperation deal.

6/ Here, because the Guidelines range is well above the 120-month cap, Manafort will have a lot of work to do to convince the judge to go far below 120 months. He will be able to argue for any sentence (even probation) but given his conduct, he will have an uphill battle.

7/ In exchange, Manafort agreed to cooperate in any way he is asked by Mueller, any other DOJ prosecutor, or other law enforcement authorities. That is standard, and earlier reports to the contrary were erroneous and should be corrected. Manafort has to tell Mueller all he knows.

8/ To be clear, that also means Manafort has to cooperate with the Manhattan federal prosecutors that are investigating the Trump Organization (and convicted Michael Cohen). He also has to cooperate with state authorities.

9/ This plea agreement does benefit Manafort as set forth above, but it is obviously much worse than deals received by people who cooperated early, like Micheal Flynn. Manafort spent a lot of money fighting Mueller to get a subpar result.

10/ Until this point, everything about Manafort’s strategy pointed towards him aggressively fighting Mueller and angling for a pardon. That raises the question—what changed? Why fight hard and have your attorneys go after Mueller, only to fold very late in the game?

11/ It’s possible Manafort simply pursued a poor strategy and corrected his course before it was too late. But it seems more likely that some event caused this sudden shift by Manafort. I’m interested in reading about what caused this major shift in the weeks to come. /end

Edited by megaeliz on Sep 18th 2018 at 4:26:16 AM

megaeliz Since: Mar, 2017
#255043: Sep 18th 2018 at 1:26:31 PM

This is also a good thread as well.

prosecutors with Mueller’s office announced that Manafort’s plea agreement in the D.C. case was a “cooperation” agreement. That is big news—Manafort has agreed to tell Mueller everything he knows about potential criminal activity by anyone.

2/ The DOJ does not let defendants cooperate as to some people but not others. If a defendant cooperates, they have to provide the government with truthful and complete answers to any question and be willing to testify in any matter they are asked to be a witness in.

3/ For that reason, Manafort is not cooperating against one person in particular—he has agreed to say everything he knows, and in order to receive a deal, he had to already begin doing so. Prosecutors don’t give deals until after the defendant provides useful info.

4/ This also means that Manafort has something of value to offer Mueller. Mueller would not have given him a deal unless Manafort was able to help Mueller make a case against someone else or significantly strengthen an existing case.

6/ One thing is obvious—Manafort could have gotten a better deal if he flipped in the beginning, instead of wasting hundreds of thousands of dollars in legal fees fighting Mueller. Until now, it looked like Manafort was angling for a pardon, but flipping runs counter to that.

7/ Trump recently praised Manafort for refusing to “break.” His reaction to this this deal will be worth watching. Manafort was chair of the Trump campaign and he was present at the Trump Tower meeting, so Trump has a reason to be concerned about what he might tell Mueller.

8/ That said, today’s cooperation deal does not necessarily mean that Manafort is getting the deal to flip on Trump. He may be getting the deal because of information he provided about someone else. But the deal does mean that he has to tell Mueller all he knows about Trump. /end

Seems like a boiler plate cooperation deal to me.

Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#255044: Sep 18th 2018 at 1:51:54 PM

Oh look, we've gone and pissed off Scalise over NAFTA.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/top-republican-scalise-nafta-canada-1.4828544

Must be doing something right.

Seriously, Ottawa is the one playing "hardball" on this file?

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
tclittle Professional Forum Ninja from Somewhere Down in Texas Since: Apr, 2010
Professional Forum Ninja
#255045: Sep 18th 2018 at 2:34:56 PM

BREAKING: Grassley has cancelled the Senate Judiciary Committee's scheduled Thursday vote on Kavanaugh's nomination.

Edited by tclittle on Sep 18th 2018 at 4:34:31 AM

"We're all paper, we're all scissors, we're all fightin' with our mirrors, scared we'll never find somebody to love."
Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#255046: Sep 18th 2018 at 2:45:19 PM

Looks like he didn't feel comfortable testing Flake.

"Sandwiches are probably easier to fix than the actual problems" -Hylarn
CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#255047: Sep 18th 2018 at 2:52:08 PM

@Gliphon: It's possible Trump is waiting until after the midterms to issue pardons to his cronies; that would definitely hurt his poll numbers, but assuming it didn't sink him people would likely have forgotten about it by 2020 if it happened in 2018.

Gilphon Since: Oct, 2009
#255048: Sep 18th 2018 at 3:04:27 PM

That strikes me as a combination of long-term planning and humility that I seriously doubt Trump is capable of. Like, to worry about what affect the pardons would have on the mid-terms requires acknowledgment that there's realistic chance of it going against him, and that pardons might hurt his chances.

Seems more likely to me that he just doesn't the value in showing loyalty to his cronies when he can attempt to use them as fall man instead. That is, after all, his usually pattern when somebody who works for him get caught; blame them for everything and then wash his hands of the affair.

Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#255049: Sep 18th 2018 at 3:18:30 PM

That strikes me as a combination of long-term planning and humility that I seriously doubt Trump is capable of. Like, to worry about what affect the pardons would have on the mid-terms requires acknowledgment that there's realistic chance of it going against him, and that pardons might hurt his chances.

Seems more likely to me that he just doesn't the value in showing loyalty to his cronies when he can attempt to use them as fall man instead. That is, after all, his usually pattern when somebody who works for him get caught; blame them for everything and then wash his hands of the affair.

This, we have zero reason to believe that he can comprehend the Dems knocking it out of the park come midterms and thus it defies belief to imagine that he would seriously be so strategic.

I just doubt he wants to put himself out there just for a pawn.

"Sandwiches are probably easier to fix than the actual problems" -Hylarn
Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#255050: Sep 18th 2018 at 3:28:51 PM

I think whatever chance Manafort had at a pardon died when he plead guilty. Trump demands one-way loyalty.

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.

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