The General US Politics Thread

Even by those metrics it's still above average. Sure, it's far from being the "best", and like I've mentioned there are a whole lot of issues that need work, but it's still one of the better places on Earth to live.

Like I mentioned before, whether you mean to or not you seem to be implying that even regressive countries are "equal", which they're not.

Edited by archonspeaks on Aug 16th 2018 at 9:18:29 AM

For the record I can't find any use of the definition "regressive" countries that doesn't catch it for "regressive tax" first.

Please define it first, because I can't find anything, that's not math, the country music genre, or only in reference to contextual regression, and not a label for a country as a whole.

Are we all now arguing about the defining metrics for "great" and "best country?"

This discussion is going nowhere good.

The US didn't build a "rules based international order" (which is more aspiration than reality even today) out of the goodness of its heart (statesmen not being known for their sentimentality), it did so because American planners realized the old style of European colonialism was becoming increasingly untenable, both economically and in terms of the overall logistics of keeping far flung global empires together. That realization along with being the sole industrial power left standing after World War 2 has allowed to the United States to be the dominant global power ever since. Meanwhile the Soviet Union's reliance on the old model of Empire ultimately contributed to its downfall as more and more of its GNP had to be allocated from "butter" to "guns" to keep its client states in line, fatally weakening an economy which was already struggling with excessive inefficiencies and corruption.

In order to achieve a comparable degree of dominance over global affairs, China or Russia (or India or Brazil or an EU Federation to name the other "potential superpowers") would have to implement a sort of "soft" hegemonic power system with similar fundamentals to what the US currently employs. In reality, none of those powers is particularly likely to be in a position to establish a unipolar world under their banner as the US's position relative to the rest of the world declines, what's more likely is a multipolar world-system where there isn't anyone unambiguously on top capable of enforcing its will on the nations of Earth.

Edited by CaptainCapsase on Aug 16th 2018 at 12:51:32 PM

This is a serious idea but I do wonder if we should move away from country personhood the way we should move away from corporate.

I'm not quite sure what you mean by that.

I'll need to think more on my idea for it before presenting it.

I think a better way to put it would be "The USA is average as far as quality goes, not the absolute peak like some would claim". Although honestly, that's totally subjective to your personal experience with the country. As far as my opinion, I'd say that the USA is above-average, but the average is a lot lower than you think it is.

I can name the exact moment I stopped thinking the USA was the greatest country on Earth.

When we announced we were torturing people in RL.

Before, it was one of those comically evil things which you had bad guys do to show they were past the Moral Event Horizon.

Trump's parade postponed until next year.

Something tells me they are hoping Trump is impeached before then.

Octavian: He attempted to arrange a Triumph for himself! This cannot stand!

Anyone else concerned about Keith Ellison getting the MN Attorney General nomination during the primaries despite these abuse allegations? Especially since his rival is yet another bigot?

Normally I wouldn't be concerned about it because the Republicans haven't held the AG in MN since the 60's. However, those abuse allegations might complicate things. He might still be able to ride the energy of a blue wave, but even if he does get in, we might be getting an abusive asshole in office.

I am really torn about the allegations. On the one hand, I agree that we should believe women. On the other hand, looking over all of the screenshots the woman posted, and the reports from local newspapers from 2006, I really don’t know what to make of this. And there’s also the aspect of the history in the united states of men of color, especially black men, being falsely accused of abuse by white women.

So... Like... Not the enduring legacy of both open and dogwhistled racism against blacks, natives and basically anyone not a WASP, the repeating policy of hypocritically propping up dictators (and no, I don't just mean the actual installing of dictators in South America during the Cold War) in the name of preserving 'freedom', the still rampant homophobia and the myriad other systemic issues?

I mean... The whole torturing people thing wasn't good, not remotely, but compared to some of the shit that's been going on in and around the US for decades, even centuries, it's relatively minor.

Hold on, what's this about abuse allegations?

I thought Ellison was white, though...

Well, pardon me, I didn't know.

Edited by PhysicalStamina on Aug 17th 2018 at 9:30:19 AM

...Keith Ellison is black and Muslim.

It could be an age thing, a lot of us grew up or were around 10 at the time of the Iraq war's beginning and that was a lot of our first exposure to bad stuff the United States did.

Edited by Wildcard on Aug 17th 2018 at 8:58:46 AM

Here’s the best summary of the Ellison allegations that I could find.

I do not recommend trying to find out more using Twitter, most of the tweets outside mainstream media coverage seem to be from far right trolls.

Basically, in addition to the concern about the allegations being true, I'm also concerned about the optics. The Fox News graphics practically write themselves.

"THE HYPOCRISY OF THE LEFT"

"PROJECTION"

"CLEAN UP YOUR OWN BACKYARD"

So yeah, if it isn't already obvious, I didn't vote for Ellison in the primaries, with all of this in the back of my mind. And if the allegations turn out to be true, I (and many others) are put in the very awkward position of having to choose between an abuser and an anti-LBGT bigot.

A shame, too, because I generally like his stances on the issues.

Unfortunately we may not have a choice. Better someone who might be an abuser vs someone who is most definitely a bigot. (And I can't believe I just said that.)

Trump's parade tirade is particularly hilarious if you know... literally anything about DC.

Specifically, that its local government doesn't have any power. Unlike a any state, city, or even territory, Congress controls DC's budget. So claiming the DC government was being moneygrubbing is absolutely laughable.

Also, Trump thinks that multiple jet fighters can be bought for $21 million. It's adorable if my 5 year old nephew thinks he can buy a jet fighter for $100. Less so when it's the president.

I don't want to be like those Republicans who still voted for Roy Moore and Trump despite their abuse.

How great it would've been if Trump was only just a rich idiot instead of a rich idiot the right wing internet latched onto as their Lord and Savior.

Edited by Wildcard on Aug 17th 2018 at 10:00:14 AM

Yeah, it’s a crappy catch-22.

That said, 1) the allegations are far, far shakier than those against Roy Moore and Trump; and 2) unlike Roy Moore and Trump, Ellison’s not a ... I want to say deranged, but that seems ableist... unhinged? aggressive? white supremacist bigot.

Seriously, look at that Vox article. The evidence is very odd and a little suspicious.

Edited by wisewillow on Aug 17th 2018 at 10:11:07 AM