Parenting

That reminds me of the talk we had last semester about families in poverty. The parents often have low schooling rates (many who didn't make it through high school), little to no access to healthcare and contraceptives, and are more likely to engage in "risky behavior" (unprotected sex at a high rate) and often have multiple children that they don't have the resources to take care of independently as a result of these factors. This is a big problem in the US and it's appalling that sex education, education in general, and healthcare are constantly on the chopping block.

This is a hard topic for me, but I'm wondering what other people think. How do you guys feel about parents with severe mental illness raising children? I'd like to give you guys some context about my own situation first, just as an example of how bad things can get.

Even without going into too much detail this might be kind of lengthy because it's one hell of a situation. My mother has bipolar disorder and schizophrenia and had a lot of issues as a parent. She'd often go on spending sprees (it got to the point that my dad took all control of the finances and gave her an "allowance" so we wouldn't go into debt) and become fixated on certain things to the point of putting off other duties around the house. My dad found this extremely hard to live with even when she was on medication, although it was my mom who ultimately left him when I was seven and took me with her.

She could never handle money, would constantly borrow from family, could never hold down a job and moved us around constantly (we moved eight times between the time I was seven to fifteen). When I was in sixth grade she pulled me out of school because aliens were after us and my aunt forged signatures to get me back in. Around 2011 when I was in my final year of high school and we were living with my grandparents she insisted that I wasn't her real daughter and was a "fake" planted by the government, and stopped believing that her parents were her parents. She had an elaborate story in her mind and it got bad enough that we locked our doors at night until we could get her into the hospital. Long story short, my grandmother was finally able to get custody of her to make medical decisions and get her the treatment she needed.

Flash forward to now and she's doing much, much better, but isn't able to take care of things on her own (she's on Disability and doesn't work.) My grandmother currently controls her finances to keep her from sneaking off and blowing all of her money and we watch her closely to make sure that she continues to take her medication and takes it correctly. If I had to put an age to her personality and mindset, I'd say she thinks close to a sixteen year old a lot of the time.

It's.. a lot. And frankly it's a lot for a child to have to deal with because I lived in a constant state of instability, shifting from place to place and knowing that we were never financially stable or had stable housing, and the fear of her going off the rails again so to speak. It's not a good way for a child to live and this is the plight of a lot of children with mentally ill parents. And we're never really over it. I'm dealing with the reality that my mom is never going to be a fully capable adult and that I'll probably have to care for her to some extent forever. It'll likely come down to me creating a small house for her on my property so that she has somewhere to stay and a feeling of independence while my partner and I can watch over her without her under us 24/7.

So I guess what I'm really getting at is how do you feel about people like my mom having a kid to begin with? And what can be done to help people in that situation?

If there's clear signs that the kid is suffering, call Child Protection Services.

It's something of a nuclear option sure. But depending on the severity of the mental illness, there's a not insignificant chance that doing anything less than getting the kids away ASAP will result in dead kids.

It entirely depends on the condition and how it is expressed, to be honest. <shrugs>

In your case... I really wish it was easier for extended family to swoop in and get custody and guardianship (financial and otherwise) officially rerouted much quicker once the situation gets obvious to all concerned — and, making the obviousness clearer to authority easier (and quicker with fewer hoops to fall over trying to jump through) would be rather nice.

But, it's not easy, because there is no one-size-fits-all approach possible. Because... making it easier and quicker to transfer custody has its own pitfalls. Not to mention all the issues when somebody is either 1) hiding the extent of their dysfunction from wider family, 2) has no wider family or 3) has a highly problematic wider family.

Edited by Euodiachloris on Feb 6th 2019 at 8:17:30 PM

It’s why government support exists, both government support for the mentally ill adult and government support for the child who is both being subject to the whims of mental illness and probably being exposed to things they shouldn’t.

It really depends on the circumstances. Depending on the severity of the illness, the solution can range from "someone has to look in once in a while" to "someone has to constantly keep an eye on the situation" to "someone else has to raise the child but she is allowed to spend time with it on her good days" to "keep the mother away from the child".

In any case, the well-being of the child is first priority, no matter what the mother wants.

Some with people with mental illnesses having children. There is little reason to deny them if they can realistically handle it, plus, once the child is there it is a mood question anyway.

I really, really love my mom and I know she loves me, so I think separating us would have been catastrophic. On the other hand, what I went through when she was at her worst definitely wasn't healthy either. After her breakdown in 2011 it took me a really long time to even be comfortable in the same room with her and I held (and still hold) a lot of resentment towards her for everything she's done, even though I know it wasn't something she chose in her right mind.

I really think we need more resources for families in these types of situations. I consider my mom an extreme case, but things like personal therapy, family therapy, parenting classes, and financial literacy classes can have a big impact on parents and their children that are in over their heads. Unfortunately a lot of these things aren't accessible for the people who really need them. Many areas don't have these things, period, and others are just too costly. I looked into getting a therapist for my mom and I, and she charged $150 for just one hour. And she's one of very few people in our area that specialize in parent and child relationships.

Agreed.

It's why I always advocate for family to be involved when appropriate — because splitting families up gets my goat first and foremost, but also because I strongly believe a family being given the means and wherewithal to work together to deal with things beats most other alternative arrangements any government can dream up.

After all, your mother also needed somebody to be able to yank the financial leash when needed, among other things. And, it wouldn't have helped her any to lose you entirely, either.

But, things could have been made more comfortable for both of you much, much sooner. <hugs> But, social care... <sighs> You know what the funding is like.

If you don't mind me asking, do you still have contact with your father?

Splitting families is fine if the alternative means leaving children in a dangerous situation.

I do, he's been a really important part of my life. Lately he's been helping me through school because the out of district fees are ridiculous.

Complicated problems require sophisticated solutions, which unfortunately is often a problem for public policy.

Things like parenting, financial literacy, and mental self- and mutual care should be basic skills taught to everyone for free. I think they're more important to happiness than most if the stuff we're taught in schools.

Edited by Oruka on Feb 9th 2019 at 2:13:02 AM

I honestly think that all of those things should be taught in a class at a junior high or high school level. My high school had a home economics class that actually dealt with finances, parenting, cooking and meal planning, and other basic life skills. Problem was that it wasn't mandatory and almost no one took it. And given the frequent drug busts and high number of teen moms at my school the kids sure as hell needed it. Unfortunately, "home economics" tends to be placed in the 'things kids should learn at home from their parents' category, and since a lot of parents are themselves not great at those things or not equipped to really teach them to their child, the children never learn them and the cycle is repeated.

Off topic but I just want to add that after what I saw today, I gotta say, way too many people think that shouting at their child and then handing them an ipad to shut them up counts as parenting. A screen should not be used as a pacifier just because you don't have enough patience to do your job and teach your child.

Well, see, nothing can be taught for free, and therein lies the problem. Too many parents unwilling to have their taxes go to advanced skill building beyond the so-called "Basics."

It bothers me how much some people resent spending money on valuable resources for their children.

Something I've been wanting to talk about is children's independence and how much power we give children over their daily lives. I see a lot of parents that want control over every aspect of their child's day- what they wear, what they eat, what they play with, where they go, etc. But I think a child's wants should be accommodated to a reasonable extent. Small things go a long way, like letting them choose between carrots and green beans at dinner, or indulging them and letting them wear their favorite color to school a lot. The rationale I always see for not letting children have any say in things is “I'm the parent,” but I don't really believe in that kind of parenting method.

I think it's important to remember that children are people and they have their own personalities. They have wants, interests, hobbies, things they really like and things they don't like, and they should be allowed to express themselves. Ultimately, your job as a parent is to help them become an independent adult. Teaching them how to make good decisions for themselves is important. If it's cold outside open the door and let them feel the air, then ask them what they need to wear that day. They'll probably pick a coat or something long sleeved. This may not seem like much, but these small learning opportunities have a huge impact.

Another thing I've been really thinking about is what I like to call, for lack of a better word, “Because I said so” parenting – when a child asks a genuine question and is wondering about the reasoning behind something and they get brushed off with “because I said so” or something similar. It's counterproductive and you miss an opportunity to explain to children the why's and how's of a situation with information that could be useful to them and their learning.

Yeah I’ve spoken before about my education and I was always raised in opposition to the idea of “because I said so”, my parents gave me the same respect I gave them (they’d apologise for interrupting me in conversations and would have no issue with me shouting back if they shouted at me. I think it did me a lot of good when it came to personal responsibility, but I does mean I tend to question authority a lot, that can get a person in trouble if not done carefully.

One of the hardest things that I try to do is not answer all their questions, but teach them (or remind them, again and again) how to find the answer themselves. They dont like it, to the extent that they admit not asking as many questions if they think I am going to make them solve it for themselves.

In his less pleasant moods my dad would call me a fucking idiot with no common sense for asking what he considered to be stupid questions with obvious answers. This started in my early childhood and never really stopped.

...Much like a lot of my childhood that seems a lot worse after actually typing it out and reading it. Which might explain why I don't do it more often.

Edited by M84 on Feb 14th 2019 at 12:17:55 AM

I was always raised with the I told you so stuff. I have a lot of issues and pent up resentment with my parents partly due to that.

I also was always told that I lacked common sense and was a idiot for not getting something immediately. It got to the point that anytime I hear the terms common sense I instantly start feeling irritable. My dad also at his worse, and that was a lot of the time, would also always yell at me for crying or being upset and tell me I'll give you something to cry. This isn't even getting into the physical abuse

Both my parents complain about why I don't respect them these days, gee I wonder why.

Edited by Wispy on Feb 13th 2019 at 11:16:30 AM

My dad's way of "teaching" me mainly taught me one thing "Ask mom for advice instead".

It's kind of telling that I prefer my mom even though she was the parent who would administer physical corporal punishment when I was a kid. I still cringe at the sight of feather dusters to this day.

And there I go making myself sad again. I really need to stop reminiscing.

Edited by M84 on Feb 14th 2019 at 3:30:36 AM

Well, if it helps, you're not the only one...

How do y'all feel about parents leaving kids by themselves in public? Personally, I don't think anyone under fourteen should be walking around unsupervised and even then I'd have rules about where they could go and they'd have to check in with me periodically.

I worked at a movie theater for about two years up until this past December and kids getting dropped off by themselves was something that happened very, very often. Our theater was hooked to a mall, so it was basically used as a preteen daycare by parents. Kids as young as eleven or twelve were being left in charge of much younger siblings, and they clearly weren't ready for that kind of responsibility. They'd run down the halls, try to sneak in to other movies, disturb the other movie goers by talking loudly and playing on phones... It was pretty bad, especially when they were in groups with other young teens and preteens.

We had one kid that was no older than twelve that was dropped off almost every weekend and his behavior was so bad that the manager pulled him aside and managed to scare him into giving him his mom's phone number. When she was called she clearly didn't care what her son was doing and seemed annoyed that she was being "bothered" for something so "small". He ended up getting banned.

Not to say that all preteens are like this, but generally speaking I don't think they're prepared for the responsibility of taking care of themselves alone in public.

When I think Free-Range Children, I think of rural settings, not the mall.

Y'know, it's a mixed bag. On one hand, I think there's a big issue with helicopter parenting...on the other hand, I think there's a lot of parents who basically don't care and just want to skirt responsibility (which I consider a greater evil).

As a rule of thumb, though, I think Oruko might be on to something.