First thing's first: KEEP. THIS. SHIT. CIVIL. If you can't talk about race without resorting to childish insults and rude generalizations or getting angry at people who don't see it your way, leave the thread.
With that said, I bring you to what can hopefully be the general thread about race.
First, a few starter questions.
- How, if at all, do you feel your race affects your everyday life?
- Do you believe that white people (or whatever the majority race in your area is) receive privileges simply because of the color of their skin. How much?
- Do you believe minorities are discriminated against for the same reason? How much?
- Do you believe that assimilation of cultures is better than people trying to keep their own?
- Affirmative Action. Yea, Nay? Why or why not?
Also, a personal question from me.
- Why (in my experience, not trying to generalize) do white people often try to insist that they aren't white? I can't count the number of times I've heard "I'm not white, I'm 1/4th English, 1/4th German, 1/4th Scandinavian 1/8th Cherokee, and 1/8th Russian," as though 4 of 5 of those things aren't considered "white" by the masses. Is it because you have pride for your ancestry, or an attempt to try and differentiate yourself from all those "other" white people? Or something else altogether?
edited 30th May '11 9:16:04 PM by Wulf
A procrastination in of itself
It’s entirely appropriate for them to not give her the benefit of the doubt, however she didn’t her her hair styled in an African-American way, she got it styled in an African way.
The culture she was imitating was an African one, not that of African-Americans. If she was appropriating a culture than it was that of Senglaise people, not of African-Americans, they don’t get to claim ownership over African culture to the detriment of actual Africans. African-Americans don’t get to take something from Africans and then decide who is allowed to use it. They can be offended on the behalf of Africans, but they don’t get to decide if someone is apropriating a third party’s culture.
Also the struggle of Africans is much more than just Apartheid it includes slavery, colonialism, mass slaughter, neo-colonialism (including at the hands of the US) and more.
Edited by Silasw on Sep 5th 2018 at 3:25:49 PM
“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
Oh, bother.
It's one of those things where on its own it would be kind of innocuous. But when you put it together with other things the person has done...it's a rather disturbing picture.
That's why I said context usually makes these things seem even worse.
TBH, we really shouldn't give someone who wore blackface the benefit of the doubt for this. Even she's admitted she messed up in the past.
And I'm aware of the long, long list of struggles Africans faced in the past and in the present due to colonialism. I probably could have just said "colonialism", now that I think about it. It's left a lot of baggage in Africa, much like in other places that were subjected to it.
Edited by M84 on Sep 5th 2018 at 11:37:22 PM
Disgusted, but not surprised
Shin Megami Tensei IV
Colonialism. Basically what defines all of us in some sense or other. Usually at hands of white people in some way or other.
I'm wondering how it must feel be part of a former colonial power IMO, such as Spain or Britain. There also lots of Inmigration between Peru and Spain, so there people that still carry "fresh" spanish heritage (and most of the country already have).
Like. Is fine feeling pride of the buildings of your ancestors when they helped to create current white supremacy?
I'd guess that Yeah, is fine feeling pride while recognizing that colonization was also bad. Dunno if is true or just Latin Americans justifying our love for Colonial buildings while also being resentful towards our colonizers.
Colonization had lots of ways and what works for one group to cope with it can't work with other.
Edited by KazuyaProta on Sep 5th 2018 at 11:05:08 AM
Watch me destroying my country
"W African-Americans are still Americans, with all the privillage and culture power that that entails when dealing with Africans."
This is something important, here in latin america a gringo is a gringo, regardless of skin color.
"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"
Here, regarding the GITS movie casting controversy
: I actually had a Japanese friend during my time at grad school who didn't get the controversy, but for a different reason. If I recall right, he thought the casting was a good idea because he felt that it called into question the idea that "Japanese" always means ethnically as well as culturally/socially - that is, that a white actress could play a Japanese character if the character in question was born and raised in the Japanese culture, as "American-Japanese" or something.
I don't know if I necessarily agree with him, especially given the optics, but it was an interesting viewpoint to hear.
It's been fun.
Oh, bother.
It's yet another thing that seems worse in hindsight and with more context, since Scarlett Johannson would then try out for the role of a transgender person in Rub & Tug. There was enough of a backlash from the LGBTQ community that she left the role, and the movie went under.
It kind of leads one to conclude that Scarlett Johannson might have some issues.
Let's hope she doesn't somehow manage to find a way to top herself.
Edited by M84 on Sep 6th 2018 at 2:46:17 AM
Disgusted, but not surprised
I don't know if I necessarily agree with him, especially given the optics, but it was an interesting viewpoint to hear.
It ties back into the fact that we have kind of a different racial view back home, it isn't so much skin tone as the culture you grew up in.
A white person who is born and raised in Japan, is Japanese.... a Japanese person that is born and raised in say Brazil is not, and wont be.
I have been told it is similar in France and some other countries but I dont know for sure....
Looking at this debate over African-American and African culture, but remembering how a Nigerian writer once described Africans and African-Americans as "long lost cousins," I have to ask:
Do any of you guys think minority activists tend to overplay the solidarity between each others' groups? Honest question.
"Somehow the hated have to walk a tightrope, while those who hate do not."
Since they're presumably trying to create that solidarity I don't see that as overplaying anything, while there is no special connection between minority groups it can certainly be created through intersectionality.
Edited by Fourthspartan56 on Sep 6th 2018 at 3:44:22 PM
"Sandwiches are probably easier to fix than the actual problems" -Hylarn
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
Sounds similar to the East Coast of Canada, at least to my parents generation/rural areas. If you are born and raised here (or come as a very young kid), you are a Nova Scotian, New Brunswicker, Islander, etc. If you aren't, you might be welcomed for the most part, but you'll never be considered a local.
Its a kind of regionalism/mild xenophobia that exists alongside but separate from the standard racism you get anywhere else in North America to various extents. For instance, my dad was born in Toronto, but came to Nova Scotia in his early 20s, never left, and picked up everything from the accent (he can even speak Caper and Newfie!) to the lifestyle. While he has plenty of friends here, they all still consider him a Torontoian. My sister and I are fine because we were born here (as was mom); and this attitude is far less intense (bordering on non-existent in urban areas) among my generation, but its still there. Still big in small towns, where your last name might be a major factor in employment, etc, but that's probably just nepotism in action.
Edited by Rationalinsanity on Sep 6th 2018 at 4:53:15 PM
Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
Cross-posting w/ US Politics Thread:
Jury Fines Man $1 For Punching Charlottesville Rally Organizer
A judge had found Winder guilty of misdemeanor assault in February. After Winder appealed, a jury affirmed the guilty verdict this week but decided he should serve no jail time — and pay only a minimal fine.
"They clearly thought about it very sincerely," Winder's attorney, James Abrenio, said of the jury. He also praised the judge and prosecutor in the case, saying, "They were all kind."
Winder had faced a maximum sentence of a year in jail and a $2,500 fine.
The Mod with the Migraine
It kind of leads one to conclude that Scarlett Johannson might have some issues.
I have to second this, I'm not sure that one can claim with any kind of certainty that just because of her involvement in two problematic movies is evidence that she has "issues" (whatever that means).
Edited by Fourthspartan56 on Sep 7th 2018 at 2:24:57 PM
"Sandwiches are probably easier to fix than the actual problems" -Hylarn
I thought the person who got the hairstyle did have a history is questionable acts.
Oh, bother.
Hence why I hope she does not take a third questionable role. Once or twice might be easier to handwave. But a third time...
Yes, she wore blackface at one point.
Edited by M84 on Sep 8th 2018 at 2:35:10 AM
Disgusted, but not surprised
Ahr river
Context changes how you gush about something.
If I have a history of, say, money laundering and running ponzi schemes and I post a picture of myself on my private boat with a pile of money, that's a very different impression than if I'm, say, a famous writer, or just some rich kid.
Read my stories!
Tell Me, Have You Seen the Yellow Sign?
Cop to Tasered 11-year-old: ‘This is why there aren't any grocery stores in the black community’
Officer Kevin Brown’s conduct, some of which was caught on his body-worn camera, included a comment that the use-of-force review found to be prejudicial against the black community.
“You know what, sweetheart?” Brown is heard telling the girl in the video, which police officials released Tuesday. “This is why there aren't any grocery stores in the black community, because of all this going on.”
Brown told internal investigators that he “believed the statement was supported by statistics and was not biased,” according to the review, which was obtained by WCPO in Cincinnati.
The officer was working a security detail at the Kroger store Aug. 6 when the girl, identified by police as Donesha Gowdy, and two other girls were suspected of shoplifting $53.81 worth of snacks and infant clothing. Brown, who was alerted to the alleged theft by an employee, asked Donesha to stop and show him her receipt for what she was carrying, but the girl ignored him and kept walking out of the store.
He followed her outside and, after he asked again for her receipt and tried to grab her arm, Donesha began to run. Without further warning, Brown fired his Taser at her from behind, the internal review found.
“One Taser barb struck Ms. Gowdy in the center of the back, while the other struck Ms. Gowdy slightly below the waist,” the review stated. “The Taser immobilized Ms. Gowdy and cycled for five seconds.”
She fell to the pavement, suffering a small abrasion to her forearm in the fall. Brown helped her up, handcuffed her and took her back inside.
One of Brown’s violations of policy stemmed from the fact that he did not warn Donesha that he was going to fire the Taser. The review stated that he acknowledged to investigators that departmental policy and training requires the warning “absent exigent circumstances.”
Another violation dealt with the timing of his use of the body camera. Brown waited to activate the camera until about five minutes after he was told that the girl was suspected of shoplifting.
The camera was also activated after Brown deployed his Taser, the police review found.
Internal investigators also found that the crime the girl was suspected of did not warrant the force Brown used to stop her. Brown told the detectives that he thought using the Taser would allow him to detain Donesha and find the other two girls, the review stated.
He told them that he decided to stop the on-foot pursuit to prevent the girl from being struck by a vehicle further into the parking lot. He also said he believed it was his duty to stop her and that Kroger managers, who did not provide him with a specific policy on handling theft suspects, “would be disappointed if he allowed a theft suspect to successfully flee,” the review said.
Brown acknowledged that he would have eventually caught Donesha if the pursuit had continued. He also acknowledged that the girl did not appear to be a threat to him or others.
Brown’s body camera footage shows Donesha, who is 4 feet, 11 inches tall and weighs 90 pounds, wincing as firefighters removed the Taser’s barbs from her body. The officer can be heard lecturing her after she was taken into custody.
“Sweetheart, the last thing I want to do is tase you like that,” Brown says. “When I say stop, you stop. You know you’re caught. Just stop.
“That hurt my heart to do that to you.”
WHIO-TV reported Donesha was initially charged with theft and obstruction, but the charges were later dropped.
Cincinnati police Chief Eliot Isaac told the city’s law and public safety committee at a recent meeting that he believes the department’s use-of-force policy is a strong one, but that there may be areas where officials can “tweak” it.
Brown now faces a predisciplinary hearing, WHIO reported.
Of course it's Ohio.
Tasers a child and victim blames. Really?
Welcome to life under a Republican. You can bet every second comment on the article is about how "thuggish" this girl acted in the situation and how she should have never ever made a cop feel bad.
Dallas Cop Who Killed Botham Shem Jean After Intruding into His Home Identified
As the Dallas Morning News reports, Guyger shot Uvaldo Perez, 47, after he took her Taser in struggle involving another officer.
According to a police affidavit, Perez became combative with another officer while he was being searched. Guyger tased Perez, but he was able to wrestle the weapon away from her. Guyger then fired her gun once at Perez, hitting him in the abdomen.
Hopefully Amber gets 25 to life, but I don't have faith in the Dallas police to correctly punish this guy.
Edited by Wildcard on Sep 9th 2018 at 12:32:14 PM
Fairly sure they're a she.
And yes hopefully she'll face strict punishment to the fullest extent of the law.
"Sandwiches are probably easier to fix than the actual problems" -Hylarn
A procrastination in of itself
In a just world they do be looking at more than her, they’d be looking at how she was able to get drunk at a bar while armed, how someone so unfit for duty was recruited in the first place and if her police training and culture is part of why she was so paranoid as to assume that a person answering the door when she knocked was a threat to her life.
Also they’d be doing an investigation into the responding officers, the fact that she wasn’t arrested at the scene indicates that the cops that responded are likely dirty as well and may need to be charged with obstruction of justice.
Edited by Silasw on Sep 9th 2018 at 4:59:54 PM
“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
African-American culture is distinct from African culture. They are not interchangeable.
If it's something that started in African-American culture, then African-Americans' opinions are the more relevant ones.
And the issue isn't that she got her hair styled. It's that she got it styled and bragged about it on Facebook in full view of African-American swing-dance fans. The blame is not being placed on the people who styled her hair. It's being placed on her, where it should be.
And again, it might not have been so contentious if she hadn't also worn blackface at one point. Is it really so unreasonable for African-Americans to look at a swing-dancer who has worn blackface in the past and makes a Facebook post bragging about her hair styling in Senegal and think "cultural appropriation"?
Edited by M84 on Sep 5th 2018 at 11:12:07 PM
Disgusted, but not surprised