First thing's first: KEEP. THIS. SHIT. CIVIL. If you can't talk about race without resorting to childish insults and rude generalizations or getting angry at people who don't see it your way, leave the thread.
With that said, I bring you to what can hopefully be the general thread about race.
First, a few starter questions.
- How, if at all, do you feel your race affects your everyday life?
- Do you believe that white people (or whatever the majority race in your area is) receive privileges simply because of the color of their skin. How much?
- Do you believe minorities are discriminated against for the same reason? How much?
- Do you believe that assimilation of cultures is better than people trying to keep their own?
- Affirmative Action. Yea, Nay? Why or why not?
Also, a personal question from me.
- Why (in my experience, not trying to generalize) do white people often try to insist that they aren't white? I can't count the number of times I've heard "I'm not white, I'm 1/4th English, 1/4th German, 1/4th Scandinavian 1/8th Cherokee, and 1/8th Russian," as though 4 of 5 of those things aren't considered "white" by the masses. Is it because you have pride for your ancestry, or an attempt to try and differentiate yourself from all those "other" white people? Or something else altogether?
edited 30th May '11 9:16:04 PM by Wulf
Oh, bother.
Here's the thing: none of the examples in the article were among a "circle of friends". That is not what the article is talking about. This is about people like Trump making racist remarks and trying to pass them off as jokes when called out.
It's talking about stuff like a California politician sharing an email that depicted Obama as a chimpanzee with two chimpanzee parents (throwing in a birtherism crack in the process) and trying to claim it was just a joke.
Edited by M84 on Aug 14th 2018 at 12:31:13 AM
Disgusted, but not surprised
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
I dint sak anything about it because you ask why people would joke about it, in the case of trump it fall flat because a) he said in public in pilitical campain and b) I really doubt the men have friend but minions.
Oh, bother.
I had assumed you had actually read the article.
Shit like what the article's talking about is why I'm wary of anyone who tries to excuse their racist remarks with the "Just Joking" Justification.
Edited by M84 on Aug 14th 2018 at 12:38:38 AM
Disgusted, but not surprised
I try but my shitty socialism connection stop from it, what I can said.
But in general, using racist jokes happen more in closed eviroment with friend and usually is a "anything goes", I suspect that if a joke about them would file they would scream about being awfull.
As trump show up with is reaaaaaaally thin skin.
"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"
.... Also the drug/drunk claim is extra BS....
Because last I checked, drugs and alcohol just lower inhibitions and make you more likely to say/do what you really feel....
Meaning if you go on a drunken racist rant, your most likely actually a racist and just do an okay job of hiding it normaly.
I outright don't believe In Vino Veritas.
I think people say and do a lot of shit they don't mean when under the influence. Because knowing actual drug users and addicts, the logic they follow does not follow the logic they have when sober.
Because they're drug users and addicts.
Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
She/her
Alcohol removes certain filters. If you aren’t racist when you’re sober, you’re not going to randomly become racist when you’re drunk.
Alcohol isn't a hallucinogen nor does it cause seizures, though.
The normal explanation for alcohol's effects is that it weakens inhibitions and thus opinions people state under the influence probably reflect their sincere opinions, even if exaggerated. Opinions stated under LSD on the other hand I would not necessarily read into.
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
Ahr river
Also like, if you're a person who has a public face, and you know you have a history of saying bad things when not completely sober, that would count as a thing you should be taking steps to avoid.
Read my stories!
It doesn't make people belive things they didn't belive before, it removes there filters.
Look just read every responce following you, the actual information doesn't back that up.... and those people just took you in with there public face
Edited by Imca on Aug 13th 2018 at 1:52:58 AM
I'm not attempting to reopen the discussion about Jeong, but as a corollary for future reference, it's important to familiarize yourselves with deontological ethics and consequentialism. Understanding those concepts will, if nothing else, hopefully eliminate a lot of unnecessary bickering and feigned ignorance about racial discourse. I'm fairly confident laculus has explained something to that effect before.
I also know my brother tried to kill me while on cocaine.
I'm generally not a big believer that reflects his unvarnished self.
People are a mass of contradictions but when their filters are removed, that is not them.
It is not them at all. It is a gross caricature of them.
Edited by CharlesPhipps on Aug 13th 2018 at 6:46:03 AM
Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
The law in the night
I think we can separate some hard drugs like meth, cocaine and heroin from things like alcohol, when it comes to their state of mind altering factor.
Inter arma enim silent leges
A procrastination in of itself
Cocaine and booze had different effects on a person, especially if one consumes a large amount of coke. I’m trying to remember if coke can cause hallucination or not, as if it can then a person’s behaviour would still be the true them, but the true them in the context they perceive but that is not real.
Someone who tries to kill you while drunk wants to kill you while sober, someone who tries to kill you while hallucinating due to a particular drug may just think you’re a bear.
That’s before we get into how drugs can induce paranoia in some people and thus make them act under incorrect beliefs (say they try to kill you not because they normally want you dead but because they think you’re trying to kill them).
Edited by Silasw on Aug 13th 2018 at 2:15:24 PM
"And the Bunny nails it!" ~ Gabrael "If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we." ~ Cyran
Oh, bother.
Cocaine makes people irritable and paranoid, and long-term use of it apparently causes depression since it screws with dopamine production. And that's assuming the first uses of cocaine don't outright kill you through the elevated heartrate. Yeah, it can give you a heart attack.
So yeah, someone under the influence of a lot of cocaine might be paranoid enough to think they're in a Cain and Abel situation and react accordingly.
Disgusted, but not surprised
Well he got better for two decades.
Then passed away in an accident.
Still, it preys on the mind.
Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
A story from today's What the Fuck Just Happened Today?
news update I thought might be relevant here:
Kellyanne Conway said "none of us would be" at the White House if Trump was a racist. When asked to name an African-American in a prominent White House role, Conway couldn't. (ABC News / CNN)
https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/kellyanne-conway-accusation-trump-racist-us-true/story?id=57142582
Edited by sgamer82 on Aug 13th 2018 at 10:36:47 AM
Well they fired Omarossa.
I feel bad for Ben Carson, though, who is somehow the most qualified person at the White House despite being a total nincompoop.
Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
Deranged X-Mas Figure
"They used pyramids to store grain."
That is all.
Doctor Who — Long Way Around: https://www.fanfiction.net/s/13536044/1/Doctor-Who-Long-Way-Around
Sad thing is that may not negate the statement
Another relevant story I almost forgot about:
Stephen Miller's uncle wrote an op-ed calling his nephew an "immigration hypocrite." David Glosser wrote: "If my nephew's ideas on immigration had been in force a century ago, our family would have been wiped out." (Politico)
Edited by sgamer82 on Aug 13th 2018 at 10:42:03 AM
It is said with full knowledge of that statement and depressingly little irony.
Ben may be an idiot in history but dude is an excellent doctor. A literal brain surgeon.
That puts him above every other staffer in that he has some profession he's qualified for.
Edited by CharlesPhipps on Aug 14th 2018 at 5:56:59 AM
Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
And for some reason they put him in charge of housing and development and put a antivaxxers in charge of health.
Ben actually was offered health but turned it down because he didn't feel he was qualified....enough.
[head desk]
Edited by CharlesPhipps on Aug 14th 2018 at 5:56:09 AM
Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
In the name of being honest
...This guy here. This piece of shit. 77 years after the Battle of Tobruk, an actual, honest-to-God Nazi stood up in the Australian Senate and spoke the words "final solution" without a hint of irony.
SYDNEY (Reuters) - Australian Prime Minister Malcolm Turnbull and all major political parties on Wednesday condemned a speech by a minor senator who used the term “final solution” in calling for a revival of a “White Australia” restrictive immigration policy.
In one of the most divisive speeches seen in parliament since 1996 when far-right politician Pauline Hanson declared incorrectly that Australia was being swamped by Asians, Senator Fraser Anning on Tuesday called for a national vote on whether to ban Muslim migration.
Anning said Muslims were responsible for acts of terror and crime and were dependant on welfare. Muslims account for less than three percent of Australia’s population, census data shows.
Amid national outrage Turnbull, who will head to the polls within nine months, quickly condemned Anning.
“We reject, we condemn racism in any form, and the remarks by Senator Anning are justly condemned and rejected by us all,” Turnbull told Australia’s parliament.
Opposition Labor party leader Bill Shorten told parliament on Wednesday: “You have to be pretty outrageous to be condemned by everybody in the Australian parliament, but Senator Anning has managed to do just this”.
Australians will return to the polls by May 2019, and recent polls show the majority of the electorate back multiculturalism, but far-right politicians are expected to pose a challenge to the mainstream parties.
“Turnbull can and must bat this away,” said Haydon Manning, a political science professor at Flinders University in South Australia.
Anning, who has been in parliament for less than a year has entered into a lose alliance with several conservative independent lawmakers that has boosted his otherwise inconsequential role in Australia’s upper house.
Anning split from Hanson’s One Nation party shortly after being sworn in, though his speech had many of the hallmarks of his former leader who has called for cuts to Asian and Muslim immigration.
“The final solution to the immigration problem, of course, is a popular vote,” Anning told parliament in his maiden speech.
The Final Solution or the Final Solution to the Jewish Question was a Nazi plan for the genocide or extermination of the Jews during World War Two. Anning has since said he did not know the history of the phrase.
Hanson joined the condemnation, telling the Senate she was appalled by Anning’s speech.
“We are a multi-racial society and I have always advocated you do not have to be white to be Australian,” she said.
Under what was commonly called a “White Australia” policy Australia restricted non-European immigration from 1901 until the late 1960s using various laws.
Man, you know you're a next-level dungeon entity when even Pauline fucking Hanson thinks you're a total goddamn lunatic. One of my Science teachers in secondary is a Somali refugee who lost one of his kids in the civil war back in the '90s. In the vicinity of Perth alone, I can name dozens of Muslim Australians I know who came fleeing the wars in Bosnia, Afghanistan, Sudan and Iraq who battled their way to survive with barely anything more than the clothes on their backs and managed to settle on a comfortable, productive middle-class life with maybe a dozen Centrelink visits between them. I don't know if a popular vote would turn out even remotely close to the result he wants, and I'd frankly be happier not knowing, but this is an absolutely gross insult to the refugees and asylum seekers who are currently languishing in Nauru and left to fend for themselves on Manus Island. This guy (and the rest of the KAP) needs to have his political presence wiped out in 2019, no two ways about it.
All said, though, you gotta wonder why he had to give a full speech when fourteen words would've been enough.
"it still begs the question of why someone thinks making racist jokes is funny in the first place."
Because is edgy and funny, I make jokes about mexian with a mexican friend all the time(after all, he kinda did the same with venezuela who is now a bigger target than mexico), that didnt stop me or being furious when trump did is "racist remark".
In general in a circle of friend they are thing you can kinda get away with it (kinda), the idea of people need to be more aware of all race relationships and the consequences of it is kinda new and push for minorities, so is not surprising it caught some people by surpriese.
"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"