A rename is needed: Disproportionate Retribution

From the discussion in this YKTTW, it appears as that the title isn't indicative of the trope. Well... at least not perfectly.

As Artistic Platypus has said:

The Disproportionate Retribution trope doesn't quite match it's name; The phrase means 'A punishment that is not in proportion to the crime being punished'. That is, it should apply to both disproportionately severe and disproportionately weak punishments, but the trope only covers the first type.

Disproportionately Severe Retribution, or Unnecessarily Severe Punishment. Bam.

I think a rename is overkill. It was intended to mean disproportionately harsh retribution, and that's how it's getting used.

Your probably right. A more suitable redirect would probably help though.

Disproportionate Retribution could, if taken exactly literally, mean ridiculously weak punishment, but I'm absolutely positive that the term being used for a stronger than an eye-for-an-eye response predates being used that way here.

It's a perfectly fitting name and the trope shouldn't be expanded or renamed. Redirects would be fine though.

Wow, I'm making an impact. Absurd.
Anyway, I support the trope being expanded to cover both types.

Or perhaps we could just call weak Disproportionate Retribution an inversion so we can save ourselves some trouble here?

I think the inverted version is tropable separately. Just go YKTTW as a new trope.

Until we have a new trope, yes, disproportionately weak retribution should be listed as an inversion.

Nitpicking, this name is good

@troacctid: And that's more or less How We Got Here in the first place.

I'm of the camp that says we should have them as two separate tropes.

Yes, if you want to go by a strictly literal interpretation, Disproportionate Retribution does cover both options. However, the connotations of the phrase itself as used in common parlance tend to lean towards the "heavy-handed punishment for minor offense" side more often than not. When people use the word "disproportionate," they tend to imply that whatever they're describing with that word is "too much," not "not enough."

That said, in my opinion, keep Disproportionate Retribution as-is, and go ahead and launch the YKTTW to cover its inverse.

Wouldnt that be really really close to Karma Houdini?

So maybe Karmic or Karma Slap On The Wrist?

edited 25th May '11 5:04:51 PM by Raso

Karma Houdini covers the character type that regularly gets this kind of punishment. Slap On The Wrist (to use one of the suggested names for the new trope) is merely the punishment itself, and can be a single incident.

They overlap, but they're not identical.

Another option would be to split the extremes into Type 1 and Type 2 and put both Types on the same page.

That's also the good idea.

Splitting tropes into "type I" and "type II" is a poor solution IMO. You end up essentially with two tropes on the same page, both of which have a name that's completely non-indicative. What's worse, wicks to that trope become clunky because they are forced to clarify the "subtype".

I hate reading a work page and finding out that some character is an Anti-Hero (type XVIII), so now if I want to know what sort of character they actually are I have to go to that page and refresh my Anti-Hero categorization knowledge.

They're not "completely non-indicative". Disproportionate Retribution is Exactly What It Says on the Tin: Punishment (retribution) that is out of scale (disproportionate) to the crime committed, and usually on the extreme end. That's how the term gets used in practice (especially when criticizing zero-tolerance systems), so the fact that a Slap On The Wrist punishment is also "disproportionate" is worth only a sidenote on the main article.

edited 26th May '11 8:47:11 AM by Stratadrake

What I meant was that having the distinction between the two tropes be that one of them is called "Type I" and the other called "Type II" would be completely non-indicative. It might as well be the other way around.

edited 26th May '11 11:41:24 AM by TripleElation

Personally I would hard split and rename both but keep the main page as a supertrope to both like.

• Disproportionate Retribution
  • Karma Hudini
  • Karmic Slap On The Wrist
  • Beheaded For Jaywalking

edited 26th May '11 12:57:50 PM by Raso

That would work even better.

edited 26th May '11 12:36:54 PM by pokedude10

Disproportionate Retribution in Real Life is always used for disproportionately harsh retribution. We don't need to cover the other kind here.

Overly weak punishments could be called Slap On The Wrist. The extreme examples, we already file in Karma Houdini.

The point is the name itself covers both. And both have completely different reactions and tropes associated with it that they should be seprate. Slap On The Wrist though should not have RL examples unless it's a news program which would be under TV far too hot button for that.

Doing what I posted above keeps it balanced and easy.

edited 26th May '11 1:00:13 PM by Raso

Usage is very high.

Disproportionate Retribution found in: 1846 articles, excluding discussions.

This title has brought 8,447 people to the wiki from non-search engine links since 20th FEB '09.

That, plus the fact that I've never used nor heard of anyone using Disproportionate Retribution to mean a Slap On The Wrist no matter what the two words could mean if you take them out of the context that gives them a single meaning, means I cannot support any actual renaming.

Slap On The Wrist, I'm shocked we don't have that one already. Knock it out, and give it a contrast line.

Are there examples of misuse?