What should this trope mean?: Hell Yes Moment

What it's defined as: "The moment at which a character realizes that things are finally starting to go their way when they're in danger." (Note especially those last four words.)

What it's being used as: Any moment in which someone in any sort of bad position sees things potentially or actually turn around.

The Image Pickin' thread has had a lot of problems because of this. Among the suggestions is making a supertrope that encompasses the "what it's being used as" with a new subtrope for "what it's 'supposed' to be."

Any further ideas, or thumbs-up for suggestions in the IP thread?

Prefer to split off the specific definition in a new trope because of broad title.

Fight smart, not fair.

I have already made my opinion made in the IP thread, but I'll repeat it for the purposes of discussion here:

As it is written right now, it is very specific. A little too specific. It's just blocking other examples from being added to it.

The sports pics that were put forth by other tropers in the other thread were put forth because the trope was not clear enough.

I personally don't feel like we need to make a supertrope. My opinion.

My two suggestions:

1.) Rename the trope and fix the examples so they can fit with the current description. Half of the examples on the page I don't believe actually fit the description.

2.) Rename the trope and fix the description to resemble what people are currently confusing it for.

Either way, this trope needs a new title. "Hell, Yes!" Moment sounds too much like a Big "YES!" or Moment Of Awesome, both of which (while it could be related) are not that trope.

I don't know, I honestly don't think we need this trope. There's just an innate difference between an Oh, Crap! moment and this. For one it's almost immediately identifiable by a certain facial expression, there's no unification in the variants of this trope, no Facial expression that immediately communicates this.

SPATULA, Supporters of Page Altering To Urgently Lead to Amelioration (supports not going through TRS for tweaks and minor improvements.)

I'd go with option 2

This is Mimi-don't let her cuteness fool you-she's got spunk.

Bumping to get more opinions, and for wave (the creator of this trope) to come and give his opinion. He mentioned he wouldn't be on until the weekend.

I will only be able to post tomorrow, and even then, only for a few hours.And the two days after I wont be able to post at all. I appreciate you waiting.

For the record, I'm going with option one, since I only chose that name because I couldn't think of a better one, as for examples that don't fit the description, can you name some of those examples?

edited 23rd Apr '11 6:40:18 PM by dontcallmewave

He who fights bronies should see to itthat he himself does not become a brony. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, Pinkie Pie gazes Also

I can't comment on any of the Film or Live-Action ones, but the Animorphs, Looking For Group, and the Arkham Asylum examples seem a little wishy-washy to me to fit the trope, with the Animorphs one in particular (but perhaps that could be worded better).

How are they like that?

(Also, will be unable to post for 2 days)

He who fights bronies should see to itthat he himself does not become a brony. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, Pinkie Pie gazes Also

bumping to hear more opinions

This is Mimi-don't let her cuteness fool you-she's got spunk.

I think that it all comes down to how strictly "danger" is defined. As I see it, there's no functional difference in the trope between those cases where "danger" means "probably going to die" and those cases where "danger" is "about to lose what I've been striving for", and thus having two versions (one where the character is about to die and one where the character is about to to get fired from the job he's desperately been trying to keep) is splitting for the sake of splitting.

I'm bad, and that's good. I will never be good, and that's not bad. There's no one I'd rather be than me.

I would also be in favor of just cutting the whole dang thing.

It doesn't have that many examples (though I suppose that's from it being just a week old) and it's still hard to see where we're going to go with this.

Plus, wave is never here to actually explain where he wanted to go with it.

EDIT: Let me rephrase part of my earlier post a little. Out of 5-6 pages in the IP thread and almost 3 here, I still have no idea where this trope is suppose to be going. And I don't support keeping something up that people are going to be confused about.

Just my opinion, of course.

edited 25th Apr '11 2:13:37 PM by Arctimon

I was unable to be here because of the Passover Holliday.I should be able to be here more often now.

Now can someone explain the problem?

edited 26th Apr '11 6:33:21 PM by dontcallmewave

He who fights bronies should see to itthat he himself does not become a brony. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, Pinkie Pie gazes Also

If no one can explain the problem, then could this discussion be locked? I'm pretty sure that I gave plenty of time to answer my last post.

edited 10th May '11 9:48:59 AM by dontcallmewave

He who fights bronies should see to itthat he himself does not become a brony. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, Pinkie Pie gazes Also

I believe the problem was not explained for you because it had already been explained in the previous posts—one of those "if you can't even be bothered to read half a page of posts, why should we bother to explain everything again?" sorts of things.

I'm bad, and that's good. I will never be good, and that's not bad. There's no one I'd rather be than me.

I have read the posts, and none of them have any specific examples of any problems. Please try not to be so insulting.

edited 10th May '11 1:10:49 PM by dontcallmewave

He who fights bronies should see to itthat he himself does not become a brony. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, Pinkie Pie gazes Also

If that's what you wanted, you should have said as much. What sort of examples are you looking for? Items on the page that don't fit? Cases that will cause trope decay?

edited 10th May '11 1:18:28 PM by Ironeye

I'm bad, and that's good. I will never be good, and that's not bad. There's no one I'd rather be than me.

Both, and I would like some detail as to why they are problems.

He who fights bronies should see to itthat he himself does not become a brony. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, Pinkie Pie gazes Also

Let's imagine a American football movie. Team Protagonist is losing the big game, hard. They worked their asses off the entire movie in order to win this championship, and now they can't seem to score. Team Rival is about to score another touchdown, bringing their lead to an insurmountable level. Suddenly, one of the protagonist defenders manages to get an interception and runs for the touchdown. Cut to the coach. He doesn't say anything, but his face says it all. The momentum has shifted, and now his team actually has a chance of winning this thing.

The big question is whether or not an example like this would qualify for the trope. Under a strict interpretation of the "in danger" clause—the sort of interpretation that the following sentence seems to imply—it would not, since the coach was never in any physical danger. Under a loose interpretation of that clause, it does satisfy the conditions of the trope because Team Protagonist was in danger of losing what they had spent the entire movie trying to get.

Given that this is the only trope we have covering this sort of situation, experience shows it will decay to the looser interpretation even if the stricter one is what was intended. The question was raised as to whether it would be better to launch a new trope to be the looser definition (thereby stopping Trope Decay), or to clarify that the current trope is the looser definition (thereby making it the inverse of Oh, Crap!).

The question then becomes whether "in mortal danger" is a sufficiently distinct case to get its own Sub-Trope. I personally don't think so, and it's not like the trope currently has enough examples that splitting would help it any.

---

Regarding examples that don't currently work, Arctimon listed a few, but without explanation. The one I am familiar with is Looking For Group, and I don't think it's an example because the protagonists aren't in serious danger (in either the loose or strict definition*

^{though I suppose if you loosened it up in a different way to say that the opponent merely needs to have lethal force to bear, the example could fit, though by that point the trope's been decayed to the point that situations qualify even when the person getting the Hell Yes moment is in a significantly superior position, and I don't think anyone wants that.}

). Sure, there's a bunch of guards, but they've mowed through groups of guys like that before, including in the immediately preceding page. Krunch's laugh is more of a "ha ha, you're all screwed because this is going to be a Curb-Stomp Battle". The protagonists do find out on the next page that there were more guards than they initially saw (and thus they might have actually been in trouble), but that's after The Cavalry has already arrived—they only discover that they might have been in real danger once they're in a position to deal with that danger.

edited 10th May '11 2:05:14 PM by Ironeye

I'm bad, and that's good. I will never be good, and that's not bad. There's no one I'd rather be than me.

I think the football example just might fit the trope, enough to list it on the page, but not enough to use as the page image or quote. As for the Looking For Group example, I was under the impression that they were vastly outnumbered as shown in the next page, but the enemies were just offscreen.

He who fights bronies should see to itthat he himself does not become a brony. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, Pinkie Pie gazes Also

The next page only adds seven other enemies: three on horses and four with bows, none of which Krunch would have seen (though I suppose it's ambiguous with the cavalry).

But, yeah, if you think the sports example could fit in the trope as you intended it, then I think only a slight description tweak is needed so that it doesn't seem like mortal danger is required.

I'm bad, and that's good. I will never be good, and that's not bad. There's no one I'd rather be than me.

I actually don't think the sports example would fit with the trope as I intended it, but l'm willing to overlook that if people are overwhelmingly in favor of having something like that fit the trope.

Let me just say that if this is how much frustration goes into making a single trope, then I take back any negative things that I may have said, implied, or thought about Fast Eddie.

edited 10th May '11 2:38:09 PM by dontcallmewave

He who fights bronies should see to itthat he himself does not become a brony. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, Pinkie Pie gazes Also

Maybe the title could be changed to Tides Are Turning or something like that, a "Hell, Yes!" Moment sounds more like something that happens after a Bad Ass event, or a gloat of sorts, and yes, it sounds very pertinent to sports, despite what dontcallmewave thinks. And no, the Han Solo pic edges dangerously close to JAFAAC territory. Sure, it's Star Wars and all, yet not all of us can identify a scene just by seeing Han's mug. As far as many are concerned, he's just happy he outran the Empire, or found a penny or something like that. The image I'm thinking of is the look on Aragorn and company when Gandalf and the Rohirrim appear on the horizon after the siege on Helm's Deep, something like that.

edited 9th Jun '11 8:32:53 PM by FenrirMX

Immortal until proven otherwise

Tides Are Turning sounds good to me. Exept, like Oh, Crap!, this is mostly about the reaction of the person who is realizing that the tides are turning, which that name fails to adequately convey.

edited 9th Jun '11 9:16:34 PM by dontcallmewave

He who fights bronies should see to itthat he himself does not become a brony. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, Pinkie Pie gazes Also

I don't think this is tropable. A facial expression? Yes people make facial expressions, also People Sit On Chairs.

Modified Ura-nage, Torture Rack