Unindicative Name: What Were We Fighting For

Can you guess what it's supposed to be?

I was lead to this page from the Feuding Families page, where it links to it while discussing how many family feuds last for so long, they forget what they're fighting for at all. I was surprised to find out that the trope was actually about sequels in which the battles and actions of the first installment are completely negated due to terrible things happening anyway offscreen. So it's not so much "Why were we fighting" but "What was the point of fighting".

There was only a couple of instances of misuse that I could find, which I've already fixed on their pages, so there isn't a dire need for a rename. But the name is still misleading. I've seen it pot holed to mean "We've fought so long that we forgot why we were fighting" and "This is the reason why I'm fighting."

I would prefer a name such as Pointless First Installment or Offscreen Plot Deresolution or All That For Nothing even.

Yes, this does need a rename.

Retroactive Shaggy Dog Story? Bleh.

I dislike Awkward Alliterative Appeal, but we could call it Sequel Setback Syndrome or something like that... Come to think of it, why not just Sequel Reset?

Although I'm not sure yet it needs a rename, these could make good redirects.

Edit: Sequel Reset is actually a trope, and I'm not sure how it's that different from this to begin with. Hmm.

edited 27th Mar '11 7:15:41 PM by nrjxll

Oh yes, let's lump these examples into Sequel Reset, and retool What Were We Fighting For? to be about what its title sounds like.

Yes, I agree. I see no difference between the two tropes. Sequel Reset makes a lot better sense as a title. I also agree on retooling What Were We Fighting For? for feuds in which the reason for the fight has long been forgotten.

Might have to flat-out YKTTW it, since the examples on What Were We Fighting For? seem to all be used correctly (by the current definition, that is).

I'd at least go for a crowner. I don't think this gets much misuse - I see what it's going for after a fashion (but then I've seen this trope before) - but I'm not sure it gets much use in the first place.

Having created this trope with Ryusui, I just want to say that while there is some overlap, the intended difference between this and Sequel Reset is that in the grand scheme of things, the sequel reveals that the actions taken in the previous installment were pointless. Despite earning a happy ending and vanquishing the forces of evil, things got worse.

Sequel Reset tends to deal more with, well, events happening to ensure that the status quo is maintained, like resetting relationships or introducing a new villain. What Were We Fighting For? is more about how between installments, The End of the World as We Know It happened, the previous cast is dead or worse, and the world is now under the control of the evil overlord (hypothetically, of course).

edited 30th Apr '11 1:18:01 PM by TheGunheart

So the intended difference is:

• Sequel Reset: Happy ending in Part 1, yet by Part 2 everything is exactly the same as it was at the start of Part 1.
• What Were We Fighting For?: Happy ending in Part 1, yet by Part 2 everything is even worse than it was at that start of Part 1.

Correct?

Since Sequel Reset and What Were We Fighting For? seem to be different tropes, I think a better option would probably be to rename the second trope so I made a single proposition crowner here for that purpose.

Feel free to tell me if I made any mistakes in it or if this was premature.

edited 30th Apr '11 1:36:53 PM by LouieW

Pretty much, yes. If it helps, the situation in .hack//GU was the chief inspiration for this trope.

I also admit that, in retrospect, this wasn't the best name for a trope. It was just the first thing that came to mind that seemed fitting.

This YKTTW gives me ideas.

https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/discussion.php?id=oniif9gbn01y58p0vphglg7d

It's basically this trope, although I don't think the title quite fits. Maybe Downer Sequel, or Curveball Sequel? Sequel Curveball?

I favor the title "All That for Nothing" or maybe "Happy Ending Override." I've also used the term "Obsidian Sequel" for this because of their dismal Neverwinter Nights entry and their joyless follow-up to Knights Of The Old Republic which proceeded to take everything that was even the slightest bit fun about the originals and use it for target practice. Obsidian also happens to be a deep black, which works with the Darker and Edgier direction these sequels are in comparison to earlier entries.

I'd say we've got consensus for a rename. I'll make and hook an alt titles crowner.

So...we've got Happy Ending Override as the winner of the vote. Shouldn't the name be changed now?

We don't have very many votes, and the lead isn't all that strong. Better to bump this a time or two to see if it attracts more votes. (This counts as one bump.)

Not a lot of votes, but certainly a consensus in those votes.

I'd guess this is just one of those threads that not many people care about. Happy Ending Override is the clear winner of what we do have.

I copied and pasted What Were We Fighting For?'s description to the Happy Ending Override page, made a new laconic page to accommodate that change, put the old one laconic page on the cutlist, fixed the wicks, made What Were We Fighting For? a redirect, and put a note about the change on the renamed tropes page and in the renamed tropes thread.

There were a good number of uses of What Were We Fighting For? to mean Was It Really Worth It? or Desperately Looking for a Purpose in Life. I tried to find and deal with those as best I could, but it would probably be a good idea for someone to check my work there.

edited 15th Sep '11 2:42:31 PM by LouieW

One last thing before this thread gets locked. The name What Were We Fighting For? sounds a heck of a lot more like it means Was It Really Worth It?; I think we should make it redirect to that page rather than to Happy Ending Override. Agree? Disagree?

edited 16th Sep '11 11:57:17 AM by MetaFour

Agree