JEWISH TROPERS

(I am just speaking for myself, I cannot say if anyone else may be offended.) I think you should keep Fagin's miserliness, but have it be a product of his life being difficult,Many stereotypes have a story behind them, I think the fact that jews used to have it so hard may be a possible cause of the Greedy Jew trope (ie: if you have so little already, it is that much harder to let go) I could be wrong though

I never heard of red hair as a jewish stereotype,

I'm marathoning South Park and in Jewpacabra episode Eric Cartman just converted to Judaism after being scared by dream visions of Egyptian plagues. That was unexpected.

@wave: Now that's a new idea!

RE: red hair as a Jewish stereotype

Don't quote me on this but I read that the Devil was often depicted with red hair because red hair was associated with evil (probably has to do with it always being an uncommon hair colour). Judas was supposed to have red hair. Medieval Christians associated Judas and the Devil with Jews as "betrayers of Christ" so it was only a small leap from "Judas had red hair" to "All Jews have red hair". In the early 16th century Shylock was portrayed with red hair. It was common into the 19th century.

edited 20th Nov '13 5:04:31 PM by MorwenEdhelwen

Well, the Levant used to have more redheads than anywhere else on Earth, way back. It's a mutation of black hair, after all.

King David had red hair, so there's that

edited 20th Nov '13 7:28:51 PM by dontcallmewave

My paternal grandfather's nickname was "Red".

So Cartman is half-ginger and he just converted from anti-Semitism to Judaism. I see what you did there, South Park.

The half-ginger thing was shout out to the fact Hitler had allegedly Jewish grandfather or great-grand father. And also that red haired Jewish stereotype.

Another point about stereotypes: There are several productions of The Merchant Of Venice which emphasise Shylock's religiousness as part of an attempt to humanise him.

I read an article about a British religious affairs specialist who helped an actor do that. If you can humanise Shylock and still play him as Jewish (or try to) why can't I as a culturally Buddhist/Taoist but non-religious writer do the same thing with Fagin (substitute "play" with "write")? Especially if as in my version, Nancy is Fagin's biological daughter?

Additionally, in my googling of this issue, it seems that people react much more strongly to the anti-Semitism in Fagin's character than to the anti-Semitism in Shylock's. Why might this be? Is it because The Merchant Of Venice is older and a little less well-known while most people are familiar with more of the plot of Oliver Twist due to all the adaptations?

edited 21st Nov '13 3:56:44 AM by MorwenEdhelwen

During Shakespeare's time, anti semetism was much more accepted. That and the "hath not a Jew eyes" speech arguably makes it a bit ahead of its time. With fagin there isn't such a thing,

There's a mad scene at the end of the book when Fagin's about to be executed.

Religious Zionist here.

One thing which I find irritating is the idea that all Jews are white. I mean, come on; I bet if I went back far enough, I'd find relatives from outside of Europe, at least. As it stands, I see the Jewish people as a family (even if some of us aren't biologically related, you still joined us of your own volition), and the fact that people lump me in with the same aggregate as the demographic which has oppressed my people the most really irks me.

I'm not saying all white people are anti-Semitic. Anti-Semitism just happens to be prominent amongst white people, and the same people who lump us in with white people tend to do so as an insult.

I don't like the racist connotations behind the All Jews Are Ashkenazi trope, but I seem to have failed to express that without putting my foot in my mouth.

Edited by SkyCat32 on Jun 11th 2020 at 4:40:11 AM

Culturally Jewish and a non-Zionist, and I completely agree. The trouble is, beyond people in the US taking Ashkenazim as representative of all Jews, the mischaracterisation is not exclusive to non-Jews, despite the fact that to the casual anti-Semite, our "whiteness" is at best fungible and may be entirely rejected if it should become inconvenient for them.

Partly jewish with barely any culture of it here. I find that your line of thought is very racist; first you want not to be seen as "most of" what you are, then call people the "most of" as well? Quite hypocritical. Respect & you'll be respected.

Ok, perhaps I do have a hard time telling white people apart. And perhaps I was a little out of line. I was out of line, I'll give you that.

I didn't say all white people where bad. I just said that because our oppressors have been predominantly white (incl. England, France, Spain, Italy, Austria, Germany, etc.) it is hard to identify as that demographic, especially when not every one of my brothers is part of that demographic, not to mention when others do so as an insult.

Perhaps you are right. Perhaps I should be a little more respectful of others.

Also, I can assure you, I struggle with negative feelings towards humanity as a whole, not just white people; that includes myself.

Edited by SkyCat32 on Jul 7th 2020 at 8:38:14 AM

On a less sour note, of all the stereotypes about us, the one which offends me the least, and actually kinda amuses me, is Jewish Sarcasm.

Edited by SkyCat32 on Jul 7th 2020 at 8:24:18 AM

So the Rabbi at my shul is finally looking for a nicer mechitzah, and the idea we both liked was a sleeve mounted mechitzah (as in, the poles for the mechitzah slip into a sleeve in the ground) with a metallic curtain.

It will look much nicer than the ratty old drapes on a pole we are currently using.

I do wonder if I'm allowed to talk here, actually, considering that I'm 1% Jewish from my mums side.

I don't practice anything.

Edited by KingOfStickers on Jul 13th 2020 at 12:54:34 PM

According to Orthodox Jewish Halacha, if the mother is Halachically Jewish, her children are Halachically Jewish. So if your matrilineage is Jewish you are a Jew according to Halacha.

I mean, if you are interested in Jewish culture, it doesn't matter what background you are from.

That said, if someone of a different religion goes into this thread to proselytize, that is grossly inappropriate.

I cannot speak for Reform Halacha. I only reference Orthodox Halacha, as that is what I am familiar with.

Edited by SkyCat32 on Jul 15th 2020 at 2:30:12 PM

hey i am a reform jew

Hi, I am not Jewish, but I am trying to bring up an issue that seems to be coming out recently about how some in the black community have really gotten into anti-Semitic beliefs. Seriously, some like Ice Cube and Nick Cannon have outed themselves as Anti-Semitic and ironically a lot of others in the black community are treating them as being unfairly criticized when they are preaching anti-racism but practice just as equally racist stuff as well.

I can assure you, there are many African Americans who don't abide by the Jew-Hatred and hypocrisy of the above celebrities, if that athlete who called shenanigans on another's Jew-Hatred is any indication. It does trouble me, however, that people in general sometimes fail to stand up to Anti-Semitism, and indeed, prejudice in general.

Man, that sounds awful. Personally I consider Farrakhan and Sharpton to be on par with David Duke and Richard Spencer. It also troubles me how much Jew-Hatred there is in the BLM organization, as much as I sympathize with their frustration with Police Corruption.

Edited by SkyCat32 on Nov 18th 2022 at 12:55:03 PM

I know that. But people like Louis Farrakhan are referred to an unsettling level in a lot of the black community. This is saying as a black person myself. And let's just say those who point out how toxic he is are shouted by those who admire him. And he's got the support of many black celebrities as seen.

I also find it rather pompous when people claim to be "the real Children of Israel" (I'm looking at you, Nick Cannon).

We are pretty diverse family. We were scattered among the nations. We have been recording our history for years. Don't insult my intelligence by calling it fake.

Anyone who buys into the fake Jew rhetoric is a fake person, inasmuch as they are just making up excuses to harass us. At least the other Jew-Haters have the human decency (if you could call it that) to admit they hate us for being different.

Don't get me started on the Messianic community and their lack of respect for our heritage and religion.

Edited by SkyCat32 on Nov 22nd 2022 at 12:41:04 PM

Seriously, I used to watch Nick Cannon as a kid and yeah, I really don't like that attitude going on. He said he's apologized, but I really hope he's sincere and not trying to do a PR move. And I have a feeling we are going to get more black celebrities spouting stuff, especially if they are connected with Farrakhan because again that guy is just toxic for race relations.

On a lighter note, have you ever been in contact with other Jewish cultures besides the European based ones?

Edited by firewriter on Jul 15th 2020 at 11:57:11 AM

I have friends of multiple backgrounds besides Ashkenazi. Persian, Yemenite, Moroccan, Ethiopian, and Iraqi among others.

There are some differences in practice, for sure.

Edited by SkyCat32 on Jul 16th 2020 at 3:10:10 PM