Christian tropers, join together!

So from my perspective, there seems to be this trend of a growing sentiment of anti-self-sacrifice on the whole in some of the narratives and messages that some pieces of media have been propagating. Some of you may or may not have heard things like how martyrdom and suicide are compared rather contrasted, or how sacrifices are just casualties.

I do have some very rude things to say in regards to the ways some of these are articulated, but I digress.

Now it seems that, from the Christian view, and the Gospels' narrative in particular, there is a very strong agreement for this criticism of the view of sacrifice in regards to how it is used and levied by higher (but ultimately mortal (human) and thus equal) authorities for the sake of making things better for the masses.

According to this, there can be, and there is, a strong case to be made against the common idea of sacrifice, to demand that another person dies so that many others may live better, or live at all. It's been a common thing in a lot of other belief systems. We've tried to bargain and bribe the higher powers to make better outcomes for ourselves. But then, according to Christianity, what happened to God and then what God did made any attempt at bribing Him of bargaining with Him pretty much unfeasible. Humans, humanity, all that is, is not equal to God, and God is greater than all. So then, this situation is one in which God was paid for by... God. And nothing is going to match that.

And then after that, God showed us what He's really after. And you can't pay for that with death. Probably can't pay for that with life either. God owes us nothing and we can never really pay God with anything. Because the notion that there ever really was a transaction model in that relationship in the first place probably might be way off the mark.

All the things before this that seem to contradict this notion? Pragmatism. Pragmatism that might work in favor of the what the anti-self-sacrifice belief is saying. If the ancient Israelites didn't do what those old laws did, if they were really into the simplistic and incorrect view of what what we think God's love and mercy should be, then they would be... sacrificing themselves for the anti-sacrifice cause, because then those other civilizations near them would have already found the mono(latry? theism?) suspicious, they won't burn their babies, and now they won't even burn some animals and participate in the whole slave thing? "Kill them to appease the gods!" would be the response from those other civilizations. Ain't saying the ancient Israelites were a model populace, but I think it definitely would have been so much worse for them if the Mosaic laws weren't what they were. (and the Judges era was worse even by those standards)

Well that doesn't seem to be favorable towards the anti-self-sacrifice thing. I think? Maybe.

Y'know, maybe, just maybe, the whole "being reunited with God" after our mistakes could have just been fulfilled with just having Christ live a hard life but ultimately live to die peacefully of old age. But noooooo. We demanded that he get stuck onto those pieces of wood. And that's just what we are.

And that brings up where I think my disagreements and discomfort with the anti-self-sacrifice sentiment.

(To preface this part, I'll say this: I did say it was a trend but what set this off was this particular tipping point of a tale that I've been keeping up with. The parts relevant to this are the "Elysion" and "Elrianode" and onwards tabs. Just click the big section titles and click the "expand" links where available. I know this is hand-holdy, but I can't judge how that site looks on your machines and how navigate-able that site is in general. I gotta say, the narrative as a whole has actually been fascinating and engaging, and it seems to have some interesting ways of handling the relationship between divine beings and other creatures, in a way that makes it much more than just the mishmash of Norse lore, Levantine narratives, and Medieval Christian imagery that a lot of similar games and stories end up being. However, it's been recently saying things that I find troubling and disagreeable, which is relevant to this whole rant. I'll see if I have the stomach to keep up with it.)

^{(also I'm sorry for bringing this into your attentions)}

So here's the thing: by and large, I'm pretty sure that the people who did sacrifice themselves or got martyred for something... aren't the people who want to die. It's a tragedy, a martyrdom, and/or a self sacrifice because they very very likely didn't want to die. They die because others, likely those who are demanding their conformity, deaths, and sacrifices, create situations in which someone almost certainly will have to die.

They make the choice to go to what is almost certainly death because they're trying to minimize the casualties of this very screwed up situation where their having it so that they and others will live Is. Not. Happening. Because that is the situation made by others and us. Could, should, would be damned, it is what it has become and it will be what it will become based on what we do henceforth.

The Iron Giant didn't know he could reassemble but that nuke was certainly a mortal error. Yuno knew the Party would die if he didn't give up his core, and he knew they would be fine if they got through the lift. Those people who minimized the blast of a grenade didn't want to die, but they knew the rest of their platoon would have a beter chance of surviving. Same as well for those who willingly go into a breaking building for those trapped people (or even person) the better equipped people won't save because they just aren't there yet and they won't be there on time.

The notion that it's just a suicide, that it's just a casualty, that it's just going to breed resentment... well, personally, and I know this is kind of an ad-hominem, but I think that if the idea of someone dying for you and many others bothers you enough to cause resentment, that you would call it nothing more than a suicide or a casualty, then I think that's more a you problem than anything else. And chances are, that you problem is exactly why there's going to keep being martyrs and self-sacrifices again and again and again.

And so this is how I'm tying this mess together.

Yeah, you (meaning us as ultimately equal mortals under judgement) don't demand that other people give up their lives just like that for whatever cause we think we have to move forward. Yeah, we probably do have a tendency to idolize the whole sacrifice thing into its own false-god. But you don't have to climb onto the cross because others will put you on one anyways. It's going to happen because that's what we made ourselves into long ago.

Yes, there's going to be more grenades and nukes and crosses and more people dying by them, even with someone's sacrifice. But that's not on the heads of the ones dying to save others, it's on the heads of the people using those grenades and nukes and crosses. And make no mistake, if they're put into that situation by you, then they actually might turn your sacrifice into their self-sacrifice, and people will be saved by that self-sacrifice.

And that salvation is as ultimately unavoidable as the death that prompted it.

You are wrong when you say people who sacrifice themselves and actually do save others with that sacrifice aren't heroes. They are. And they are more than heroes. And again, you don't demand that people be those big heroes that die. They make that decision when the time comes.

Here's a very benign form of self-sacrifice for ya: if you can, take in slightly less that what you need without breaking yourself, give slightly more to others. Do unto others what those others want done to themselves.

If you're going to thoughtlessly and impulsively dump on the whole concept of self-sacrifice while denying the fact that it has saved people, then to you I say — and I am so very sorry for using this in a literally Christian thread and I'll accept any further thumpings that this brings—

Go

_<<Screw>>

Yourself.

May the Lord bless you, may the Lord have mercy on us, you and I and them included, and may you all have a good day.