Vitiate is basically the Ganon of the Old republic.
I wouldn't be surprised if he were resurrected, being even more powerful, even though he's supposed to be Deader than Dead
They'd be liars if they did, they said he wasn't coming back in an interview.
Team Rocket Boss.
Plus Vitiate is overplayed at this point.
If they do bring him back to derail the Jedi vs Sith conflict AGAIN then people would be pissed.
I'll teach you a lesson about just how cruel the world can be. That's my job, as an adult.
IHE
If Tenebrae does come back it better because the characters brutally kill him again.
I just wished they focus on the PC's class again. That's the only reason why I thought the Eternal Empire was awkward, especially since it feels more organic with the Hero of Typhon than anyone else.
Edited by agent-trunks on Jul 27th 2020 at 8:42:08 AM
Thats always been my issue as well, to be honest.
Really, I thought it was tailor made for Light Side Sith.
Really?
The Republic vs. Empire is PLAYED THE FUCK OUT. The Cold War was interesting but no one actually wants to fight the Republic or Empire given it's a pointless war that can't go anywhere. The Eternal Empire was great because it was something new and allowed the Empire and Republic to team up against something else.
If you're a Light Side Sith and don't want to kill Jedi and reform the Empire, more Republic fighting is the last thing you want to roleplay and almost all the Sith players I know are LS.
Edited by CharlesPhipps on Jul 27th 2020 at 10:07:26 AM
Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
Would that it were so simple.
The Eternal Empire was just another dark sider Empire. The only difference between them and the Sith proper are that they have yellow lightsabers. It was fucking stupid. And the writing for the expansion was terrible, from the G-rated bargain-bin knockoff HK droid to Koth being an absolutely intolerable dunderhead in almost every scene he's in. The vastly expanded cast of companions is neat, but their roles are so modular and self-contained, having forty companions from across classes seems indulgent. Some of their individual missions to get them are boring — is there really any point to getting Xalek back, for instance? He never speaks again after you do! Besides, you can only send out 8 at a time for crew skills and you only need one to clear every PvE task in the game. Also, the story in general is a slog — there's not much of a deeper sense of continuity between chapters and each chapter isn't particularly interesting on its own. Played separately, a month apart, it was irritating because there was so little in each update. Played together, it's just a slog.
"If you're a Light Side Sith and don't want to kill Jedi and reform the Empire, more Republic fighting is the last thing you want to roleplay and almost all the Sith players I know are LS."
The deeper point is that the Empire can't be reformed. LS Imperial characters are still ultimately stooges for a tyrant. LS Sith are simply the biggest suckers. They only become worthwhile in Jedi Under Siege and Onslaught when they can actually sabotage the Empire — before then, it doesn't matter how many good deeds they do, when Darth Marr proverbially wants his dick sucked, the LS Imp obliges.
Edited by CrimsonZephyr on Jul 27th 2020 at 2:18:15 PM
"For all those whose cares have been our concern, the work goes on, the cause endures, the hope still lives, and the dream shall never die."
The Zakuul Empire was an awesome contrast to the Sith Empire showing what an INTELLIGENT dictator would do with his followers. I.e. Make them love him and be loyal to him versus the Sith's Stupid Evil Social Darwinist ways.
Given the Republic wants to get genocide and we've seen the Empire abandon its most racist policies, this is an argument that doesn't fly. Mind you, eventually the Sith Empire will become indistinguishable from the Republic...and thus the Sith Empire will end with a whimper not a bang.
Edited by CharlesPhipps on Jul 27th 2020 at 11:37:16 AM
Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
Would that it were so simple.
"Given the Republic wants to get genocide and we've seen the Empire abandon its most racist policies, this is an argument that doesn't fly. Mind you, eventually the Sith Empire will become indistinguishable from the Republic...and thus the Sith Empire will end with a whimper not a bang."
The Empire still has slaves, is still an autocracy, and still is under the control of a Dark Side cabal well into Knights of the Eternal Throne. They have some aliens as officers in their military, but that, at the very best, amounts to a translation of the false meritocracy of Napoleon, and pales in comparison to the open multiculturalism of the Republic.
And the Eternal Empire is just as bad as the Sith Empire, with a bigger focus on Bread and Circuses. They still have a three or four nutcase Dark Side cults, the Knights themselves aren't much better, and regularly throw political dissidents into the wild. If the people of Zakuul are happy, it's because they seem to be, culturally, so disengaged that pretty much all of them are kind of stupid. Notably, the Zakuulan you have the option of rescuing is a basically just a space movie star, versus a politician for the Republic and an admiral for the Empire, which sort of highlights just how frivolous the EE is. Anyone could take these people for fools.
"For all those whose cares have been our concern, the work goes on, the cause endures, the hope still lives, and the dream shall never die."
Team Rocket Boss.
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
Yeah, that's why i find Eternal Empire to be much better Dark sider.
Like fuck Zakuul and every other character from it.
Hang the heads of the Valkorian family on our walls i say.
Senya's not that likeable anyway and killing her in chapter 2 explains her absence.
And Koth drinking Vitiate's kool aid really rubs me the wrong way.
Edited by RedHunter543 on Jul 28th 2020 at 5:41:16 AM
I'll teach you a lesson about just how cruel the world can be. That's my job, as an adult.
*5. It has never seemed to me that the "Light" Siths really want to reform the empire, rather it seems that they want to serve the empire in the most pragmatic way possible and avoiding as many deaths as possible.
Jaessa believes that is the intention of the Sith Warrior, but she seems to be a Horrible Judge of Character.
Edited by JoLuRo075 on Jul 28th 2020 at 8:51:11 AM
Light-side Sith are the Pragmatic Villainy to Dark Side Sith's Stupid Evil.
Edited by theLibrarian on Jul 28th 2020 at 10:56:04 AM
I remember that initially I wanted to create a Sith Warrior and make him Dark, but I couldn't because most of the evil decisions seemed too stupid to me.
Instead I decided to be neutral and only make evil decisions if they were logical decisions.
Edited by JoLuRo075 on Jul 28th 2020 at 10:17:34 AM
Jupiterian Local
The most generous possible interpretation of Light side Imperial characters is that they're in favor of a strict, ruthless meritocracy. Your status in the Empire should not be a result of your species or your political connections, but by your competence. If you're a slave and you don't deserve to be a slave, then you will rise above it by demonstrating your usefulness. This is the Inquisitor's story in a nutshell: rising from slavery to a seat in the Dark Council in record time because they're just that good.
Of course, the Sith Empire doesn't live up to this meritocratic ideal, and even if they did, it has a very narrow definition of "merit" that makes it extremely difficult to call them a just society in any conventional sense. It does make for a fun setting for the PCs to play in, though, and let you be a "good guy" on the bad guy's team in an Evil Virtues sort of way.
Really from Jupiter, but not an alien.
A major part of the design philosophy of The Old Republic was, according to the early interviews, divorcing your "side" from good vs. evil. So, a Dark Side Republic character would torture and murder Imperial characters not defect. Ditto the opposite that a Light Side Sith would protect the people of the Empire and be an Internal Reformist.
The Sith LS characters are constantly fighting against the most racist and atrocity-inclined Sith more so than the Republic. Indeed, in their campaigns, one of the biggest things you deal with like Jadus and the Councilmen you overthrow is the fact that the Republic is almost an annoyance to deal with.
Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
it's a living
I think there is occasionally enough wiggle-room to play a Sith who wants to rebel or escape but lacks the support base (or the willpower), or a Bounty Hunter who's mercenary or desperate enough that changing sides doesn't seem like an option — the Empire *will* hunt you down and kill you if you betray them, after all — and definitely an Imperial Agent who is in fact willing to defect given the chance, though given your connections they naturally don't trust you so you aren't really given the chance until the very end.
And so yeah, it's not much, but there are constraints on how open-ended an MMO can be. It ended up being more than I expected. Hell, even if I thought the idea of a whole *secret* empire was pretty dumb, and that the early branching of the first few hours of KOTFE was doomed from the start, I appreciated the attempt. Honestly the whole kitchen sink approach TOR took when creating its setting is kind of dumb to begin with. I can take the bad with the good here.
Anyway, I love Zakuul for the fact it's a "normal" empire like the British or Romans that took over the galaxy. The privileged minority have vast wealth from the oppression of other people.
Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
IHE
I like to think I can do that too, but I can't with this game.
Everything you said just now might be why they decided to add that whole spy/betrayal arc that's going on right now.
If anything I only really liked the Eternal Empire's design philosophy. Blue and gold and white are some of my favorite colors to mix together, they had a cool architectural style and design and cool ship designs, but their setup was stupid. The Emperor had had this running for centuries because he suddenly decided "Meh, not worth it" and went off to found another Empire randomly in Wild Space and siphoned money that nobody ever noticed missing from the actual Sith Empire to work with it?
To say nothing of how busted its military was. "Oh yes we have a bunch of super-powerful and super-fast starships crewed entirely by droids that have just been sitting in space somewhere..."
Edited by theLibrarian on Jul 28th 2020 at 6:04:37 AM
You didn't like the fact the Emperor found the Sith Empire as broken and stupid as the LS Sith? Because the Sith campaigns are all about how the Sith are Stupid Evil. I felt kind of like Magneto in X-men: First Class.
"I don't disagree with anything you've said but you killed my planet."
Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
Team Rocket Boss.
My mother*
No, Vitiate blew up Ziost.
I suppose the Sith Warrior and Inquisitor's mother could have been there.
Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
Team Rocket Boss.
i thought you were trying to quote Magneto, my bad.
Well, Charles was adapting a Magneto quote.
Whatever they were trying to do, did not work for most of the fanbase. Even the overall Bioware fanbase came and left quickly.