James Bond

Zorin and Elektra are 2 Bond villains who are similar to motives and plans but differ in their evil. While Elektra's is due to her ambition and her thinking her father doesn't really love her when he refused to pay the initial ransom, Zorin is flat-out psychotic due to being the result of a Nazi eugenics program.

EDIT: Almost forgot that Zorin was also originally working for the Soviets, even had Gogol show up in the film, only for them to ditch him once he's been proven to be too much of a loose cannon.

Edited by KRider on Feb 1st 2024 at 3:34:44 AM

Elektra has also been compared to an oil version of Goldfinger.

Christmas Jones feels out of a much goofier movie even if I like Denise Richards. I also feel like "nuking Istanbul" was a poor evil plot for Elektra and wonder if they should have just stuck to kidnapping M.

Imagine the movie if Bond has to rescue M for Elektra's revenge plot and kills her over that, no "nuking civilization" element.

Hardly morally ambiguous but still a much more grounded tale.

Well, they wanted to make sure the audience knew Elektra was evil and it's okay for Bond to not miss her.

So she had to do something completely evil in an over the top supervillain way to justify it.

Edited by RedHunter543 on Feb 1st 2024 at 7:48:09 PM

So who was the best Bond?

I’ve heard rumors for many years, though never seen a primary source, that an alternate ending was at least considered where Bond deliberately only wounds Elektra, and she is then committed to a mental hospital where he visits her sometimes.

I’ve been wanting to either confirm or deny this for ages. Anyone have sauce? If it’s true… damn, we were this close not having to endure The Christmas Joke…

Daniel Craig.

I'm not apologizing.

Still Sean Connery. He had the best Bond films ever in Goldfinger and Thunderball.

Though if you were to break down w/c Bond film per actor had it the best, my picks would be:

Connery - Thunderball

Moore - The Spy Who Loved Me (objectively speaking but Live and Let Die will always be my Guilty Pleasure out of all Bond films)

Dalton - License to Kill

Brosnan - Tomorrow Never Dies

Craig - Skyfall

Connery is my favorite too.

Though the best movie in my opinion was From Russia with Love,

Goldfinger is a close second.

By the way, I've based my decisions on both the story, the characters and of course the theme song (that's an equally important part of a Bond movie). As to why Live and Let Die is a Guilty Pleasure honorable mention, it's bec of 2 things: Baron Samedi and Kananga's death.

Incidentally, Elektra CAN be spared in the video game - hit her with a stun weapon. She counts toward the “enemies non-lethally subdued” tally which IIRC are worth more points that kills for those who care about such things.

Renard unavoidably becomes a Carlyle-kabob, though.

I may be the only person whose favorite Bond film is The Man with the Golden Gun.

Though my favorite Bond actor is Connery. You get the sense that Connery Bond knows they're in a silly adventure story, and that none of this supervillainous plotting really matters, so they focus their attention on having a good time: enjoying the sights, driving fast cars, oggling pretty women, and making wisecracks at all the ridiculous stuff they encounter. Which are the same things audiences come to Bond movies for, making Connery's Bond relatable in a way none of the others are.

Well, while Scaramanga is 1 of the best Bond villains, the movie's plot is fairly lowkey for a Bond film and he had an underwhelming henchman w/ Nick-Nack. Plus JW was there and he was worse than he was in Live and Let Die.

When it comes to songs, and music, I think From Russia With Love is the movie that uses the Bond theme music the most, which is a mark in his favor.

Like his arrival at the airport, he checks in at the hotel, searching the room for bugs, all while the them music play loudly.

I like The Man With the Golden Gun too.

Edited by jawal on Feb 1st 2024 at 1:43:10 PM

Dr. Christmas Jones while not the best written character (and I would agree Denise Richards' performance is unfortunately not good) does at least to a certain degree feel like she's in the movie for more than just being the Bond Girl he does end up with. DT's criticism about not seeing why Stacey Sutton (Tanya Roberts) had to be there for the plot of A View to a Kill is admittedly a valid criticism. The bit about why she's roped in makes sense, but otherwise, she's there to be there—and Christmas feels a little bit more relevant than that at least.

So, what are you guys' thoughts of the opening scene of For Your Eyes Only?

I'd say it's quite one of the most glorious Take That! ever done in cinema, knowing the circumstances of it.

I really need to see a summary of the whole legal issues of Thunderball to refresh my memory.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thunderball_(novel)#Writing_and_copyright

https://screenrant.com/james-bond-first-007-movie-thunderball-franchise-changes/

There was a dispute between Ian Fleming and writers Kevin McClory and Jack Whittingham who claimed that Fleming plagiarized them and the trial didn't end until 1963 where they settled out of court where according to wikipedia

"McClory gained the literary and film rights for the screenplay, while Fleming was given the rights to the novel, although it had to be recognised as being "based on a screen treatment by Kevin McClory, Jack Whittingham and the Author""

Before I knew about the circumstances behind it, I find Blofeld's pathetic attempts to bribe Bond more hilarious than his death and I'm not sure whether this or his previous "death" in Diamonds are Forever is worse. Though both deaths still pale in comparison in terms of hilarity and memorability to Kananga's death in Live and Let Die.

Edited by KRider on Feb 4th 2024 at 8:52:01 AM

I like it. That Blofeld was reduced to a man in a wheelchair trying one last desperate attempt at killing Bond only for him to be picked up with the helicopter, begging for his life and then dropped unceremoniously down a smokestack is actually pretty amusing and really speaks to just how pathetic this psychopathic criminal truly was by the end of the day. That it goes into the movie's theme about revenge is also fitting too—and then Licence to Kill has the exact opposite message I just realized about how doing nothing could be seen as both weak and complacent.

I like the idea of how in No Time to Die Blofeld is reduced to a man being locked in a cell forever whose lost all his influence and power and then killed with poisoned nanobots like he's nothing too—by a criminal mastermind, Safin, that he wronged who's way, way smarter than he'll ever be. I do think it's admittedly anti-climactic too though.

Blofeld in DIAMONDS ARE FOREVER was already a Franchise Zombie character who had suffered from Karma Houdini to the point that he was rapidly becoming a predecessor to Cobra Commander. While being killed in the opening of the movie is a poor climax for all of their conflicts, I feel like it was the best for moving the franchise forward.

Stromberg is a terrible character, for example, but much-much better than if he'd actually been Blofeld, for example.

Edited by CharlesPhipps on Feb 4th 2024 at 3:42:46 AM

I like Stromberg as a villain. I think Drax is better certainly, but I still like him though.

I think Drax is fine but back to back with Stromberg makes him feel repetitive.

I saw Moonraker before The Spy Who Loved Me so it didn't really bother me. That said, yeah. It was a little weird though.

That's not a coincidence, it's because both films, and YOLT, were directed by Lewis Gilbert who recycled the same premise for all 3. The man had no imagination at all...

To be perfectly honest, many Bond movies are pastiches of each other at this point. Those might be the most notable of examples though.

Was interesting how they dealt with the Nothing Personal aspect of But for Me, It Was Tuesday pertaining to Bond's job there: that there'd be many a times when the killing is so in-grained in his role that at this point, he just can't remember every single mook or enemy agent he's killed in the heat of battle anymore. That added an extra layer of depth to his relationship with Anya certainly.