Super Smash Bros.

DK is actually my favorite game character/franchise and the way it's been mistreated by both fans and Nintendo themselves really grinds my gears. There was a point during the GameCube years when even Nintendo Power routinely trash-talked the series, calling Dixie Kong "Daisy Kong" and telling a reader who wrote in to ask if there was going to be a new DKC that they'd "rather see a new arcade-style DK" (or something like that).

The fact that the internet had a conniption when Nintendo announced Tropical Freeze instead of a new Metroid game at E3 2013 probably hurt the series' standing in Nintendo's eyes, too. People raged about that for literal months. The game always had its fans but it's only in the last couple of years that people have started to recognize it as one of the best platformers ever.

The good news is that according to several semi-reliable sources like Imran Kahn and some ResetEra mods and insiders, there is in fact a new DK game in development at Nintendo EPD. There's apparently a big push to promote and popularize DK again, which is why Super Nintendo World is getting a DK-themed expansion and why we're seeing more DK-branded merch instead of the isual Mario-branded merch of DK characters. I can only hope it's true.

Is that a Wocket in your pocket, or are you just happy to see me?

Resetera "insiders" are known to be frauds though, and the ones who were reliable left the site, and for a very good reason.

Death is a companion. We should cherish Death as we cherish Life.

I have to admit that the outcry of Metroid fans was unfortunate. First, because (prior to 2019) Retro had wrapped up their involvement with the series in 2009 with the Trilogy compilation. And second, because Returns was too successful for the newly-revived DK to have only one game, and Retro themselves said that they still had pending ideas for the series.

And Smash fans still wonder why there's so little music from Tropical Freeze in 4 and Ultimate — since TF itself had too little support, who would go on to expect music from that game? In that sense, for Nintendo it was more like admitting defeat after the backlash.

135 - 169 - 273 - 191 - 188 - 230 - 300

Looking at how Nintendo handles DK over the years, I had this unfounded and baseless theory that Nintendo was resentful towards Rare making their franchise far more successful than Nintendo ever thought possible during the SNES days, so Nintendo's ego was hurt and they tried to bury the DK series after Rare was bought out. Of course there is literally no proof of any of that.

Wasn't the 3DS port of Returns also a massive seller? It's odd how Nintendo fights DK's popularity.

-Witty line-

It is obnoxious that Nintendo does give Donkey Kong the respect it deserves. Unique characters, great level ascetics. Fantastic music. Still sells absolutely well despite being a non-Mario platformer.

Still has less representation than Kid Icarus in Smash. And I'm not just talking about characters. It probably is because the franchise was more popular when Westerners were making it.

The Metroid fans being absolutely obnoxious during the Wii U era

x5 I remember Geek Critique talking about it for a bit in his review Tropical Freeze. There were a couple reasons why the fanbase had a negative reaction to Tropical Freeze at E3 2013:

• 1. DK's lack of identity during the Game Cube era:
  • Because Nintendo was making a bunch of spin-offs and remakes after selling Rare to Microsoft and DK appearing in a lot of Mario spin-offs as well, a lot of gamers who started gaming during this era did not see DK as his own unique world and franchise, they saw him as part of the Mario universe and nothing else.

• 2. Returns's difficulty:
  • Returns was released on the Wii, a console that was known for having a bunch of casual gamers who likely weren't receptive to how difficult Returns was.

• 3. Should've been Metroid:
  • A very common sentiment was that people were wanting a new Prime game.

Here is the review I watched, it's mentioned in the beginning of the review (start from 1:00 and end at 9:10). He talks about it better than I could:

You know, I have to wonder why Pit is obsessed with this site. It’s gonna ruin his life!

Hey, I had a great idea for a two-for-one charter trailer.

It opens with the. Mario vs. Bowser, Link vs. Ganondorf, Kirby vs. Meta-Knight, Fox vs. Wolf, Samus vs. Ridley, DK vs. K.Rool paintings the third time.

However, this time, it cuts to Wario. He's eating garlic, watching TV, or something, and he hears a noise. He looks out the window and sees Bowsette. Wario's confused but scared. But it's not really the dark Queen from the meme.

Captin Syrup, Invades!

Next trailer, it repeats Banjo-Kazooie's trailer, all of them are in the treehouse, and literally a split second it just cuts to Dixie being added, no fake out, no build up, like Nintendo mocking themselves for using it a third time.

-Witty line-

At some point it's not really mockery...

YO. Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie.

People say that, but their rumors and predictions keep coming true. Besides, they're not the only ones talking about the new DK game.

Just... Just let me have this one, a'ight? I need it.

It's almost certainly not going to happen in Ultimate, but my dream character pack (well, one of them) is Dixie with a Homecoming Hijinxs stage, the Snowmads' theme, Punch Bowl Brawl, and new remixes of Crystal Caves and In a Snowbound Land.

Is that a Wocket in your pocket, or are you just happy to see me?

Most of them ended up being "true" because they keep using this escape clause of "plans change". One of the leakers there outright claimed "this new render of Mario Kart is proof that Mario Kart 9 is coming!" when it turns out it was an old render.

DK literally got new stuff in Ultimate though? New AT, remade an old stage, new character, so many remixes. KI got its new stuff in 4 already, and hell the seemingly one-more-character is just an echo. People exaggerate a lot of KI's supposed content in Smash.

Not only is it unfounded, it's a perpetuating rumor among the "Miyamoto facts that aren't facts" that circulated, that even youtube videos that claim to be "hunting for facts" stated as a fact.

Edited by Ookamikun on May 3rd 2021 at 8:48:46 PM

Death is a companion. We should cherish Death as we cherish Life.

A shit one that used the Klatrap asset from Kong Bongo

Several old stages got glow ups. And not all of DK's stages even returned.

Whoop de do. K.Rool's not enough for DK's popularity. And from the sound of it, it took a very loud and persistent fanbase to add the main villain to the game.

And all of them are from games that are over 25 years old. No remixes from DKC 3 forward

Can we not devalue echoes just to defend the overrepresentation of Kid Icarus and Fire Emblem?

Edited by NoName999 on May 3rd 2021 at 5:57:46 AM

Echoes are literally extra stuff thrown in. It is not devaluating, it is literally what they are billed as.

And, no need to be a dick to other franchises when demanding stuff for one you like.

They'd be a dick to those franchises no matter what, it's just what they do.

Trans rights are human rights.

Which is against forum rules, since it violates the rule against constant negativity.

On another subject, one thing that I want in Ultimate but will very likely not get is a soundtrack pack with songs from Monster Hunter. Mostly because I really, really want the Magnamalo battle music to be in a Smash game.

I hope that we get to see more Monster Hunter content in the next Smash game. Having Rathalos as a boss was pretty rad.

Edited by dragonfire5000 on May 3rd 2021 at 6:07:53 AM

You know, hunters and palacos have been mini fighter'd, but Mon Hun has palamutes now...

A stretch, for sure, but hey.

Edited by Zeromaeus on May 3rd 2021 at 9:13:32 AM

Mega Man fanatic extraordinaire

It seems doubtful to me they'd have Monster Hunter costumes with Pyra/Mythra if a fighter was planned down the line. It's not impossible, maybe Capcom wanted to get some Rise promotion ASAP while the fighter wasn't ready yet, but it'd be a weird and arguably even kind of scummy choice.

I missed the part where that's my problem.

I don't think people truly understand how much effort are put in echoes.

First, you still have to make the models

Mapping them to their base character still requires time, coding, and money

They need their own voice actors.

They have unique taunts and victory animations

You still need to make a Kirby hat for them. And that requires making more animations for Kirby and that also requires Kirby's voice actress'

They require their own crowd chants

Still need to make a classic mode route for them

They still needed to acquire the rights for Ritcher

They still need to be balanced because not all of them are 1 to 1 to the character they're based on.

Echoes are not just "copy/paste/done lol"

Edited by NoName999 on May 3rd 2021 at 6:24:15 AM

Well, go take it out against the Koopalings then. Echoes have been stated time and time again that they are extras, quantity over quality. Go tell Sakurai he is wrong about his recollections about the games he directs.

I was thinking, maybe to reduce toxicity around fighter reveals they should do more like Min-Min, announcing the series ahead of time but leaving the character a mystery. Despite Arms not being especially popular, I feel like I didn't see nearly as much salt about it, probably because people weren't getting hyped up for whatever character they want only to have those hopes dashed. Everybody had their expectations in check going in, nobody was hoping for Crash or Sora or Dante or whoever else. But that sense of anticipation and speculation about who it will be was still preserved, to an extent.

Granted, this would only really work for series that have more than one believable rep. Otherwise it's just "Well obviously it's going to be X, nobody else makes sense."

Or alternatively, maybe they just need to remove that last anticipation phase between the reveal announcement and the actual reveal. I think the amount of hype people build up during that time is probably a big contributor to toxicity. If the reveals were just dropped with no warning, I'd bet it wouldn't be as bad.

I missed the part where that's my problem.

Aren't a lot of the Echo models heavily edited off the og fighter? They also already had models for Dark Pit, Lucina, and Chrom

Most of them just re-use already recorded voice clips, same goes for Kirby when he copies them

Which was presumably done at the same meetings where they got the rights for Simon

I understand a lot of people oversimplify how much effort goes into an Echo, but I feel like you're overcomplicating it.

Jawbreakers on sale for 99¢

The echo fighters don't re-use voice clips...outside of Daisy.

Kirby can't re-use clips he doesn't have.

YO. Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie.

So I don't want to downplay voice acting here, but Smash Bros isn't exactly known for it. And while I seriously doubt Echo Fighters aren't easy as they sound on paper I've seen way too many mods that show it can be done. So I imagined that with a proper budget & tools at their disposal it's easier for Sakurai & his team in comparison.

While I'm at it I really do think it's a damn shame that it's incredibly unlikely there'll be more Echo Fighters. Most of the time when I see people request their favorite characters they come across as incredibly pretentious & entitled. That's especially true when it comes to the Smash Bros community. For the life of me, I can't remember the last time I've seen a so many people, let alone a community, that are willing to compromise how their favorite characters are represented. An actual scenario where someone can have their cake & eat it too & no one on the Smash Bros team is seemingly willing to go this route.

It's funny because none of the echo fighters require Kirby getting a new recording. Lucina? Nope. Dark Pit? Nope. Ken? Same as Ryu's. Chrom? Nope. Dark Samus? Nope.

Sakurai outright stated that echo fighters still require getting their own render and voices, but otherwise are heaps easier on the load because of reusing existing skeletons and animation.

It's a new assist trophy. Also it's far from shit. You want shit assist trophies go look at Starfy. So? Others getting glow ups doesn't remove the fact that DK got a glow up. Again, how does that take away the fact that DK got a new character? And? Still new content, especially when you consider that the composers themselves chose what to remix. It's literally what the dev team outright stated. Also, it's literally hilarious how you state KI of all things is overrepresented. Wow, THREE characters! Too much representation!! And while I'm not too fond of Fire Emblem people really underestimate its appeal and success especially in Japan.

Edited by Ookamikun on May 4th 2021 at 2:11:04 AM

Death is a companion. We should cherish Death as we cherish Life.

The Kid Icarus complaint has to do with Smash 4 so it's honestly amazing that they're people still holding onto that. Honestly, unless it's a series I care about I don't really care. I just don't care what stages & items are added.

Also, K.Rool's inclusion is a major big deal. I still see people playing as K.Rool & quite frankly, he's honestly one of the few characters that lived up to his hype.

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You forgot Daisy & Ricter

I never really realized that. Still, even factoring that, is it really that hard or expensive to record, at best, 10 lines?

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