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DrunkenNordmann from Exile
Mar 15th 2019 at 8:56:44 AM

Remember that pro-Milosevic propaganda video with a soldier playing the accordion?

Somebody made a copypasta inspired by that video and that's where "remove kebab" comes from.

The soldiers in the video were Bosnian Serbs involved in war crimes, by the way.

"Satire is meant to ridicule power. If you are laughing at people who are hurting, it's not satire, it's bullying."
Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
Mar 15th 2019 at 9:03:06 AM

I could've sworn they were already banned, regardless, I'm very happy Paradox is taking this stance. Paradox games due to their potential nature as historical wish fulfillment have always attracted reactionaries and fascists, it's good to see Paradox fighting against that. If they're allowed to feel comfortable then they'll infest wherever they can and drive away all the decent people.

"Progress is a nice word. But change is its motivator. And change has its enemies." -Robert Kennedy
DrunkenNordmann from Exile
Mar 15th 2019 at 9:05:19 AM

[up] The subreddits are not run by Paradox themselves. The official forums banned kebab (when it's not referring to food) ages ago.

"Satire is meant to ridicule power. If you are laughing at people who are hurting, it's not satire, it's bullying."
Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
Mar 15th 2019 at 9:07:39 AM

Ah yes, that must've been what I was thinking of.

Also, while the subreddit may not be directly run by Paradox I'm pretty sure at-least one of the mods works for them (u/Meneth).

"Progress is a nice word. But change is its motivator. And change has its enemies." -Robert Kennedy
Ultimatum ◕_ ◕ Disasturbator from England Relationship Status: Holding out for a hero
◕_ ◕ Disasturbator
Mar 15th 2019 at 9:14:45 AM

Wouldn't create a conflict of interests,since its fan run anyway?

🌟 The answer eludes me still,how bothersome
Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
Mar 15th 2019 at 9:27:59 AM

How so? They aren't selling anything or providing reviews. I'm not sure how that would constitute a conflict of interest.

"Progress is a nice word. But change is its motivator. And change has its enemies." -Robert Kennedy
Ultimatum ◕_ ◕ Disasturbator from England Relationship Status: Holding out for a hero
◕_ ◕ Disasturbator
Mar 15th 2019 at 9:50:26 AM

The conflict of interest stems from the fact its easy to assume the Reddit was being run by the devs due to the name when it's not,having someone from paradox as a mod doesn't help things

🌟 The answer eludes me still,how bothersome
Redmess Redmess from Netherlands
Redmess
Mar 15th 2019 at 10:31:55 AM

That's not a conflict of interest so much as it is a reputation problem. This is why big companies are so protective of their brand names.

Balmung Chain Breaker from Nebraska, Free American Empire Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
Chain Breaker
Mar 15th 2019 at 12:25:45 PM

Honestly, they should have done this like two years ago, but better late than never.

I want some flying cars, a ticket to the stars / Or even just a world without religious wars
Druplesnubb Editor of Posts
Editor of Posts
Mar 15th 2019 at 12:33:33 PM

I was part of the Remove Kebab on the paradox forums. The way I saw it used it was always making fun of Serbian nationalism rather than muslims. When the forums banned it I rolled my eyes because the ideas of any actual islamophobes unironically using a meme meant to mock them just seemed like too silly.

Redmess Redmess from Netherlands
Redmess
Mar 15th 2019 at 1:17:05 PM

I think you are underestimating islamophobes, and racists of any stripes, really. Just because you use a meme "ironically" does not mean racists can use it seriously. On top of that, I find the "ironic" use of racist memes questionable AT BEST.

LeGarcon Blowout soon fellow Stalker from Skadovsk Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
Mar 15th 2019 at 2:10:21 PM

Ironic use sets the table for real racists to quietly come in and start sharing other jokes and memes without the irony.

It's about background noise. And when your background noises is questionably ironic racism, you've got a problem.

Edited by LeGarcon on Mar 15th 2019 at 5:10:30 AM

Oh really when?
Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
Mar 15th 2019 at 2:21:50 PM

Remove Kebab was literally invented to glorify and advocate genocide against populations in the Balkans that practiced Islam, it in no way was meant to mock racists.

Now, I used to use it before I knew the actual context so it's not like one can't be innocent and use it. But it's absolutely not true to say it's mocking racists instead of being racist.

"Progress is a nice word. But change is its motivator. And change has its enemies." -Robert Kennedy
Balmung Chain Breaker from Nebraska, Free American Empire Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
Chain Breaker
Mar 15th 2019 at 4:18:08 PM

Also, ironic racism is still racism. Ironic racism doesn't mock racists, it enables them.

I want some flying cars, a ticket to the stars / Or even just a world without religious wars
DrunkenNordmann from Exile
Mar 15th 2019 at 10:53:34 PM

The CK2 subreddit - which actually is run by a separate team than the rest of the Paradox-related subreddits - followed suit and reaffirmed its rules against racism etc.

Obviously, you had the usual suspects show up and throw a shitfit.

"Satire is meant to ridicule power. If you are laughing at people who are hurting, it's not satire, it's bullying."
Druplesnubb Editor of Posts
Editor of Posts
Mar 17th 2019 at 3:46:36 PM

I wonder if Charlie Chaplin's The Great Dictator would have been appropriated by neo-nazis if it was made today.

Edited by Druplesnubb on Mar 17th 2019 at 12:34:26 PM

Redmess Redmess from Netherlands
Redmess
Mar 17th 2019 at 3:52:35 PM

Don't give 'em any ideas...

theLibrarian That all you got? from his own little world
That all you got?
Mar 17th 2019 at 7:23:24 PM

Apparently Hitler was quite a fan of it.

That is the face of a man who just ate a kitten. Raw.
DrunkenNordmann from Exile
Mar 17th 2019 at 7:39:33 PM

[up][up][up]

How would that even work? The film is intrinsically anti-fascist.

The only case I know of where The Great Dictator could have been construed in any as pro-Hitler would be Iron Sky - and that was because the Moon Nazis only had fragments of the movie. As soon as one of the main characters saw the full version on Earth, she basically underwent a Heel Realization.

If anything, if The Great Dictator came out today, they'd complain about it being an attack on white people and Trump supporters again - like they did with the new Wolfenstein.

Edited by DrunkenNordmann on Mar 17th 2019 at 3:41:54 PM

"Satire is meant to ridicule power. If you are laughing at people who are hurting, it's not satire, it's bullying."
Redmess Redmess from Netherlands
Redmess
Mar 17th 2019 at 8:34:05 PM

Something being intrinsically anti-fascist has never stopped any fascist from appropriating it anyway. Fascist ideology is full of contradiction and paradoxical beliefs.

Take that scene with Hinkel dancing with a globe. A fascist propagandist could easily pull that out of context as an endorsement. A particularly clever propagandist could probably even twist that speech at the end in favor of fascism. Remember that totalitatian regimes tend to boast of their "freedom" and "democracy". Beware the ones that put those words in the name of their country...

DrunkenNordmann from Exile
Mar 17th 2019 at 8:39:15 PM

Take that scene with Hinkel dancing with a globe. A fascist propagandist could easily pull that out of context as an endorsement.

That's literally what Iron Sky did. That was the one scene the Moon Nazis still had access to.

Thing is, this was essentially in a vacuum - there was no full version of the Great Dictator on the Moon.

Meanwhile, if that movie came out today, the far right might latch onto that one scene, but people rarely go to the cinema to watch a single scene of a movie. So any attempt to "claim" that movie for themselves would fall flat.

Again, they'd do the same thing as they they did with Wolfenstein: Claim it was racist against white people, was pushing a political agenda and what not.

And just as with Wolfenstein people would go: "Wait, this product's enemies are fascists - why are you offended?"

That's actually a question I always ask people when they decry the discussion of far right sub-cultures in video games as "an attack on gamers" - if you're not part of these sub-cultures, you have no reason to be pissed about people shining a light on them.

Edited by DrunkenNordmann on Mar 17th 2019 at 4:41:38 PM

"Satire is meant to ridicule power. If you are laughing at people who are hurting, it's not satire, it's bullying."
Redmess Redmess from Netherlands
Redmess
Mar 18th 2019 at 4:18:06 AM

I don't think that's entirely true, there is such a thing as people getting offended on behalf of another group. This is pretty common among well meaning educated people who are cautious about any and all stereotypes, regardless of what the stereotyped group thinks about it. This is how you get Mexicans Love Speedy Gonzales, depite other people assuming the character is very racist and feeling Mexicans should be offended at it.

DrunkenNordmann from Exile
Mar 18th 2019 at 11:33:16 AM "Satire is meant to ridicule power. If you are laughing at people who are hurting, it's not satire, it's bullying."
Kayeka World's biggest wannabe from Amsterdam Relationship Status: Brony
World's biggest wannabe
Mar 18th 2019 at 11:45:33 AM

As described in earlier diaries Imperator will have a fort and Zone of Control system that is familiar to anyone who has played EU 4.

NNNNNNOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO Ooooooooooo......

Well, at least I can appreciate the puns and references in the achievement titles. "Times New Roman", you clever jerks.

Edited by Kayeka on Mar 18th 2019 at 7:47:56 PM

People say I have a problem with authority. I say that authority has a problem with me.
DrunkenNordmann from Exile
Mar 18th 2019 at 11:48:46 AM

[up] Paradox are really font of their puns.

"Satire is meant to ridicule power. If you are laughing at people who are hurting, it's not satire, it's bullying."

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