Warhammer 40,000

The Wolf and the Lion is a reference to Aesop's Fables.

Changing the Wolf for a Dragon wouldn't have the same meaning to their relationship.

Edited by SebastianGray on Jul 13th 2023 at 10:26:44 AM

Double Post for today's Horus Heresy Thursday: Loyalist Legion Champion. Comes both with◊ and without◊ a helmet.

I like this model, although I am not sure about giving him a combi-melta.

I don't see how that fable applies to Russ and El'Jonson.

Brief version of the reason they had their falling out: Russ (the Wolf) wanted to kill the enemy leader so charged in and lay siege to his fortress. Lion used that as a distraction and infiltrated the fortress and killed the guy while Russ watched. Russ felt Lion had no right to kill his prey.

It's not an exact match, but it is still a reference to/takes inspiration from the fable.

Edited by SebastianGray on Jul 13th 2023 at 6:43:18 PM

Not really convinced that's anything but a happy coincidence, but who knows? Maybe the writer(s) were thinking of that fable.

Marq: I will said it took a while to get your previous question but I will said I will take a combo of Lion, guillman and vulkan, the former as sword who got to destroy everything and being independed of anyone not the emperor, guillman belive in proper chain of comand and be honest he belive more in the imperium than the emperor as proper. This let Vulkan who probably most focus on people in general.

in term of strategic output I will go with Leon,guillman and dorn but dorn personality will make easier for guillman to use him as cudgel against Leon.

Came up with names for post-Heresy Astartes chapters that were founded by/around surviving loyalists of the nine traitor legions. I would like feedback on them.

• Eagles Temperant (Emperor's Children). Evokes the phoenix motif of the pre-Heresy Emperor's Children behind the facade of the Imperium's eagle motif, and emphasizes the chapter's virtue of temperance versus the Emperor's Children's fall to the sin of self-indulgence.
• Hammers of Alcaeus (Iron Warriors). The IW seems to have a thing for hammers, Perturabo himself is nicknamed the "Hammer of Olympia", and the IW style of warfare can be pretty much described as unsubtly and relentlessly sledgehammering at the enemy until they break. Alcaeus (from Greek Ἀλκαῖος Alkaîos, meaning "strong"), is the birth name of the Greek mythic hero Herakles, which plays on Perturabo's obvious Greek theme that includes him acting as a Herakles-like monster-slaying hero to the common people when he made first contact with them; in-universe, I envision the name referring to the first chapter master.
• Nykteridons (Night Lords). From Greek nykteris, meaning "bat". You know, because they're more Batman-like than Curze, being driven by a genuine sense of justice rather than sadism. Also, it rhymes with the name of the Carcharodons, who are rather Night Lords-esque in their terror tactics and brutality (even though they're probably descendants of one of the Terran-born Raven Guard elements that were exiled by Corax).
• Riven Hounds (World Eaters). From the title of Endryd Haar, monstrously strong World Eaters blackshield who even in death almost ensured Abaddon's death to a killing blow from Garro. It conveniently evokes the legion's original name "War Hounds", and highlights how loyalist World Eaters were harrowed to near-madness by the betrayal of both their Primarch and their brethren.
• Dusk Reapers (Death Guard). Evokes both the legions' original name "Dusk Raiders", and the grim reaper motif that Mortarion and the Death Guard embodied before the Heresy.
• Disciples of Jehuti (Thousand Sons). "Jehuti" is an alternate, more accurate rendering of the name of Thoth, an ancient Egyptian of wisdow, knowledge and magic; in-universe, he's a powerful loyalist Thousand Sons sorcerer that miraculously managed to do what Ahriman failed at attempting with his Rubric and both banished the Flesh Change and Tzeentch's claim on his fellow loyalists' souls, albeit at the cost of his own life.
• Sons of Mene (Luna Wolves). "Mene" is an epithet of Selene, the Greek counterpart to the Roman moon goddess Luna; the whole name mirrors a fusion of both the "Luna Wolves" and "Sons of Horus" names.
• Ashen Heralds (Word Bearers). Evokes the legion's original name "Imperial Heralds" and its original grey color scheme, as well as allude to these loyalists being appalled (i.e. "ashen") at their Primarch and brethren's treachery, even taking it literally with rituals that involve smearing their faces with the ashes of victims of the Forces of Chaos that they collect from the battlefield with the goal of sanctifying them so that they can hopefully rest in peace.
• Ghost Serpents (Alpha Legion). The legion was/is alternately known as the "Ghost Legion" and the "Azure Serpent", and has a serpent motif too.

Edited by MarqFJA on Jul 15th 2023 at 3:24:58 PM

I like the idea of successor-Chapters to the Traitor Legions, working hard for penance. Particularly heroic counterparts to the Night Lords, because it would be fun to play a stealthy Batman-in-space Chapter. Though I'm not sure if the Imperium would trust them to run around freely, since IIRC there have been suspicions that some Chapters have Gene-seed from Traitors, which could cause a scandal.

<cough>Sons of the Phoenix<cough>

Eh, they're Cawl's fault. (My real questions is if he's managed to sneak 2nd and 11th Legion gene-seed into a Primaris chapter yet).

There are several canon legions that are suspected of being descended from loyalist elements of the Traitor Legion. Blood Magpies Ravens, Marines Malevolent, Minotaurs being the leading contenders. And they were all around before the Ultima Founding

Edited by KnightofLsama on Jul 15th 2023 at 3:31:13 AM

I've seen people suggest the Death Eagles as potential Emperor's Children descendants, with the Raven Guard similarities being due to having been adopted and mentored by them.

New 'nids revealed today: Norn Emissaries and Assimilators, updated Genestealers, Pyrovores and Biovores, two new Lictors, as well as new Hormagaunts. They've done a good job at tweaking the existing designs, making them a bit more HD than the earlier iterations, but overall everything is quite familiar to previous developments. But I also like how some of the Tyranids are starting to look more demonic, or like undead spirits, to make the Tyranids more otherworldly than just bug-monsters.

Edited by Mara999 on Jul 15th 2023 at 6:58:36 PM

There is also the Brotherhood of a Thousand who have a very suspicious name.

Of the new models, I really like the Norn Emissary/Assimilator, althouth the shoulder spine things make it look a bit like an Aeldari walker. I also like that the special weapon gaunts are returning, I used to like them back in 2nd Edition. The genestealers are awesome as well. Not much of a fan of the more insectoid Bio/Pyrovore, the beefy look was better.

I stumbled across some really neat fanart of Tzeentchian, Khornate and Nurglite Eldar recently, and it got me thinking that this is a really interesting concept to explore. Chaos xenos in general could stand more attention, but it does make a certain twisted sense that Eldar in particular might attempt to escape eternal torment in She Who Thirsts by running to the service of her brother gods.

Servants of Nurgle with shapely hips feel rather dangerous, don't you think?

insert joke here about 1000 young and its not Slaanash

The lack of Chaos-worshiping non-humans seems like a wasted opportunity, especially as the Eldar would seem like the type of people to search for new gods to worship, even from Chaos.

You'd think there would be more xenos forced into warp anuses scattered across Galaxy. They could make great reinforcements for Lost and the Damned. Unless... chaos worshipping humans are just as xenophobic as imperials.

You can make a pretty solid argument for what each of the other three Chaos Gods would offer to attract Eldar in particular:

Khorne is Slaanesh's greatest enemy among the Four, but besides that might also attract Aspect Warriors and Incubi who might subscribe to heretical Khorne-Khaine syncretism, perhaps hoping to draw the fragments of the Bloody-Handed God fully into the Brass Lord to create the ultimate war god.

The Changer of Ways would offer a particular temptation to Eldar who look into their race's fate, see nothing but impotence and extinction, and reach out for anything that will change their doom. This would be especially so for Seers, what with their dedication to psychic cultivation and well-known tendency to meddle with the future and tweak it to their advantage.

And Nurgle, of course, would offer the chance to be close to their beloved mother goddess again, and consolation in the shared doom that everything is bound for.

Now, to be fair,there are some Chaos xenos like the Saruthi and the Laer... they just tend to be relegated to novels and background lore and are mostly extinct in the present day.

But yeah, Chaos xenos among the Lost and the Damned would be spiffy.

There was chaos eldar but only one entry that never really took off at all.

I hate the names of the Norn Emissary and Assimilator; was it really hard to come up with a name that fits the Tyranid names' consistent theme of being intimidating and/or imposing? Hell, I've seen people comment that the Norn Emissary's job was already fulfilled by Forge World's Dimachaeron, so why couldn't GW use that?

On a different note, remember In the Beginning, There Was Man that I mentioned previously? Well, when things settle down and there's a shifting of gears towards administration of the newly established Imperial colony, it's shown that the Exodus Fleet's roster of High Lords^note Yeah, they're the Terran High Lords who fled with the Exodus; I don't know if anyone in the RP discussions ever bothered to ask "Who's running the Imperial government back home, then?" at any point. has the Speaker for the Chartist Captains also represent the Exodus' contingent of Rogue Traders. Does that make sense? Or would it be more logical to have the Rogue Traders report whatever findings or intel they acquire to a different High Lord? Or hell, have their own dedicated representative, either as one of the rotating members of the High Twelve or as one of the many lesser lords that are still formally part of the Senatorum?

Edited by MarqFJA on Jul 16th 2023 at 12:37:28 PM

While I don't think Chaos itself has the capacity to be xenophobic per se, I would say that chaos worshippers being xenophobic does make sense.

While we typically associate the Imperium with fascism, I'd argue A Nazi by Any Other Name might find themselves very much at home with at least two of the four chaos gods:

• Khorne: Ultramilitarism, viewing the world through the lens of an eternal war between races sounds rather Khornate.

• Slaanesh: Pride, which include your conception of supremacy over others, such as racial supremacy.

So it's possible that Chaos Humans kill Xenos and particularly Chaos Xenos all the time, causing them to be rare.

I think it would be fun if there were an anti-Deathwatch warband among the Chaos Marines that goes out with wacky Kill Teams not to slay aliens, but to try and corrupt them into the service of the Ruinous Powers (and then slay the ones who don't get with the program, because they're still bastards, of course.)

Norn Queens have existed in Tyranid lore since the 90s and while we haven't got the lore for the Assimilator yet, Emissaries are directly tied to the Queens so fitting their naming scheme is appropriate.

Edited by SebastianGray on Jul 17th 2023 at 8:16:55 PM

Possible, maybe, but difficult to square with how things are actually portrayed in the setting material.

Like, I could easily imagine relatively recent renegade companies and Chapters retaining some of their Imperial prejudices, or some of the Word Bearers, but on the whole most of what we see is that Chaos commanders mostly treat their xenos allies about the same way as their human cultists, useful mutants and a not inconsiderable number of their Astartes. Now, granted, that way is "as pawns to be expended when necessary, convenient, or amusing", I'm not saying that Chaos factions are pro-xenos as a rule, but killing them simply for being Xenos seems to be rare, if for no other reason than that a xenos soldier is still an extra body to throw at the Imperium.

(As for the xenos position in this, well, if the choice is between the spiky guys who will probably get you killed, or the non-spiky guys who definitely view your existence as a personal insult to God, the choice seems pretty clear, doesn't it?)