Warhammer 40,000

Gasmasks and greatcoats do look the same but if you stay away from grey then they shouldn't look too much like the Death Korps. Of course if you go khaki they could look too much like the Steel Legion.

On a different note, does anyone know of any official representation of Leman Russ as a redhead as I can only find him as a blond including in his official 1st Edition model colours◊.

Edited by SebastianGray on Feb 3rd 2020 at 9:55:53 AM

Well, other Imp. Gs also make heavy use of greatcoats, so that on its own shouldn't make them look like Kriegers. But I imagine people would also wear fully-encompasing protective masks while from a planet of chlorine, so I'm guessing then you're now really hopeful their Brodie helmets will keep them distinctive. I'd not be too worried about that actually since the Brodie helmet was one of the most distinctive helmets from World War I.

Edited by VutherA on Feb 3rd 2020 at 5:07:06 AM

Yeah, Brodies and Adrians would be a good way to get the WW 1 vibe across without being too Krieg-y or ASL-y.

"Yup. That tasted purple."

After some thought, I've decided that I like my guardsmen with tunics and bags more than greatcoat after all. Though I'm wondering how to justify this in fluff. I have them as living in underground bunkers, but then again, so do Kriegers.

Hey, codpieces became fashionable for warriors at some point in time for no other reason than apparently a bunch of doodz liked their bold dick armour, you don't have to come up with an airtight justification for tunics and bags.

Especially in a universe where officers run around without helmets as a matter of course.

When noone bats an eye at Praetorians and Mordians next to Cadians no one is going to car that you've not fully fleshed out your design choices.

"Yup. That tasted purple."

That's easy enough to say, but I can relate - I made an Imperial Guard design that was basically body armour that was almost plate armour, Magneto-style helmets, and a heavy scarf that covered their faces. The worldbuilder in me had to find a rationale - and what I came up with was that they live on a world with incredibly strong winds and the get-up is basically their traditional hunting gear (the armour to deflect small bits of debris and so on) that coincidentally translates over to functioning well as conventional body armour.

---

I was thinking about trans characters in fiction the other day, and it made me wonder - have there been any in 40k? Beyond Slaanesh and their entire entourage of demons being technically intersex, I'm not sure if I've seen any trans characters (there may have been one in some BL book at some point IDK) but that actually brings me up to the two big examples of Always Male and Always Female factions - Space Marines and Sisters of Battle. It's a little bit more complex with Space Marines because there's some genetic Hand Wave going on, but with the Sisters of Battle - would the Sororitas accept a trans woman into the Sisterhood? Or are they TERF-y in their adherence to the "No Men Under Arms" loophole? GeeDubs probably don't want to address the issue atm, but they've started including more visible women and POC in the official material, so some trans representation might be around the corner. But I was thinking of making one of the Sisters in my WIP short story a trans woman (and there's nothing stopping me there let's be honest) but I just wanted to know what the official lore said about it, if anything.

"...in the end the Shadow was only a small and passing thing: there was light and high beauty for ever beyond its reach."

The first thing that comes to mind is male Aeldari taking on a female persona when they join the Howling Banshees but I am not sure that counts.

As for Trans Sisters, religious are not exactly known for their tolerance but it's your army, you can write your own lore how you want, I doubt anyone except bigots would take issue with it anyway.

The Imperial Cult is intolerant, yes, but towards non-humans specifically. From what we can tell, (and it doesn't exactly crop up that often tbf) they're actually fairly socially progressive when it comes to sexual mores. Granted, several of these stem from the same source - the Ciaphas Cain books, which have a retired Sister of Battle who is very certainly not observing any vows of chastity, as well as a prominent same-sex couple in the supporting cast - but I can't think of any conflicting information that suggests that the Imperial Cult are socially conservative (by our standards) when it comes to the matter of sexual morality and LGBT+ issues.

"...in the end the Shadow was only a small and passing thing: there was light and high beauty for ever beyond its reach."

There may be particular planets/cultures that would be intolerant toward LGBT+ people depending on their customs, but I doubt very seriously that the Astra Militarum gives a feth—if you're willing to fight and die for the God-Emperor, you're qualified regardless of who you're into as long as you're not causing problems and aren't giving off Slaaneshi vibes.

I actually made up a Mechanized Infantry regiment whose look was heavily based off the Kerberos Corps.

Edited by theLibrarian on Feb 6th 2020 at 8:53:46 AM

Well, I'm more concerned about the Adeptus Ministorum, and whether the Imperial Cult has any actual views on it. Like RL religious organisations they will have certainly have variance in their beliefs on numerous matters, but they're mostly to do with the varying amount of tolerance they give to elements who don't fit in with their human supremacy doctrines - the Puritan vs Radical axis when it comes to Inquisitors is a pretty good example there, or maybe the level of tolerance given to secessionists. Now, I'm sure there will be transphobic, homophobic and misogynistic pockets within the Imperium, given that it holds a vast number of disparate worlds and cultures, but much how Medieval Europe had the Catholic Church as the overriding, ever-present religious culture giving all the different kingdoms a constant common culture, the Imperial Cult does the same in the Imperium, and I really don't see how they would reinforce what are, let's be frank, Christian sexual mores and gender expectations. Christian scripture is highly heteronormative, cisnormative and patriarchal. Given the origins of the Imperial cult as a human supremacy and ethnonationalist movement that enforces the hegemonic galactic order the Emperor strove to establish, I don't see why they would duplicate or retain any of the old Christian views on the matter.

Which leads back to: would trans women be accepted into the Sororitas? I have to assume that they would, for now.

As for could trans men become Space Marines, the genetic transformation throws a spanner into the mix somehow. Apparently female Space Marines can't be created using the same method as the one established to create the male Space Marines, and IIRC that method has to begin during or even before puberty. So... could a trans man transition before that point? What if they were on puberty blockers and began transitioning side-by-side with the induction process? I mean, the "Emperor couldn't make female Space Marines" really just comes across as complete Hand Wave bunk when Cawl managed to make an upgraded version anyway *grumble grumble*...

Edited by GoldenKaos on Feb 6th 2020 at 3:32:33 PM

"...in the end the Shadow was only a small and passing thing: there was light and high beauty for ever beyond its reach."

I'd think the major obstacle against LGBT tolerance in the Imperium would be its military reliance on sheer numbers. Historically, civilizations with a strong urge to outbreed the enemy have had a noted tendency to hate non-reproductive sex, which inevitably includes homosexuality.

Edited by Medinoc on Feb 6th 2020 at 4:42:26 PM

"And as long as a sack of shit is not a good thing to be, chivalry will never die."

From what I remember, the closest thing to attitudes about sex and gender in the Imperial Cult is that House Cawdor on Necromunda seem to espouse strict gender roles but their particular branch of the Imperial Faith, the Cult of Redemption, is considered extreme even by Imperial standards.

As for female Marines, I've never had any strong opinions either way but there is a way to convert adults into pseudo-Marines (although that was banned after the Heresy) so I don't see why there couldn't be a similar procedure that would work on women.

Edited by SebastianGray on Feb 6th 2020 at 4:13:51 PM

Yeah, I can absolutely see the Imperium wanting to breed more soldiers and human labour etc, but there are SO MANY humans in the Imperium from Day 1 I really don't see them feeling the need to adopt social positions that sideline LGBT+ people in order to create more soldiers. Hell, I wouldn't be surprised if some commander decided it would be a good idea to recreate the Sacred Band of Thebes and make a regiment of only same-sex couples or something...

"...in the end the Shadow was only a small and passing thing: there was light and high beauty for ever beyond its reach."

We have to remenber the imperium is not as unified as it claim to be, which it kinda work against their facist pretencious because they are so many bloody people they cant make them all of them little imperium model citizens, specially with belief so ranging to one of another.

Another issue is that in a way the imperium is brutality utilitarian, you serve the emperor and if you dont want them they will force you, if a LGTB couple serve the emperor, then so well, granted what it mean to serve...that is when things get tricky, it also probably would be in this weird position of a empower gay couple serving a brtual regime who discriminate against other but there is a sort od darker irony on that.

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"

With The Imperium, my understanding is that LGBT issues are typically left to the discretion of local authorities.

With Sisters of Battle, I would argue at least some chapters of them would allow transwomen into their ranks. The reason why they're an all-woman group is basically legal reasons, so if they just define a transwoman as a woman then they're clear. Those laws can be argued to refer to gender as a social construct, not biological sex.

With Astartes the issue is different. The lack of female Astartes is not actual membership rules per se, just the limitations of their technology. The procedure that creates Astartes only works on males (as in, biological sex. The procedure probably requires a Y chromosome). Thus, it probably wouldn't work on transmen. However, it actually might work on transwomen. So, it's entirely possible there are transwomen Astartes.

"Any campaign world where an orc samurai can leap off a landcruiser to fight a herd of Bulbasaurs will always have my vote of confidence"

I don't think the Imperium has a set policy on the topic, but I also can't really see the brutally oppressive regime being particularly socially progressive. I expect it'd be a case-by-case basis depending on what personal quirks the planet/sector's blooodthirsty leader or zealous demagogue has — maybe they're of an "all humans are the same under the Emperor as long as they die messily for Him", but it's equally likely they think being LGBT is an abomination or something. Then again maybe they'd declare a crusade against wearing hats on Sundays that ends up with half the planet executed. 'Tis a silly place, is the point.

On the specific case of the Sisters of Battle — honestly, it's your dude(ette)s and your lore, do it how you like. But I do think that an Ecclesiarch meeting a trans woman who wanted to enter the SOB would first think that it was a heretic trying to circumvent their holy mandates first and give any concern to gender identity a very distant second.

Dopants: He meant what he said and he said what he meant, a Ninety is faithful 100%.

It's worth pointing out that the Sororitas recruit from the already-indoctrinated cadres of the Schola Progenium, who most famously take in war orphans. While someone transitioning to female before puberty and indoctrination is possible, it doesn't seem probable. Once in the Schola, I have my doubts about the benevolence of the Imperium allowing a transition to occur on the Imperium's dime, as that is resources not spent on training and indoctrination.

I think Callidus assassins can be either or both at any given moment though.

As long as there are no filthy xeno or mutant heretic scum, it's all good.

Disgusted, but not surprised

My personal expectation of the Ecclesiarchy's views on the matter is "LGBT is fine as along as they keep reproducing for the Emprah and don't be heretics" ("What is being a heret-" "If you have to ask, heresy, you heretic"), which I'm sure is a view we'd probably not outright see in 40K material because that's...a surely pretty uncomfortable one still.

Also, two other considerations:

1) It's entirely possible for a trans sister of battle to just not have transitioned.

2) The tech level of Imperium worlds varies so wildly that in some places letting people transition might be a trivial effort.

Which isn't to say of course that there isn't plenty of good old fashioned human prejudice like sexism. Ciaphas Cain for example had one unpleasant side character call one of the female officers of Cain's 597th a "petticoat Colonel".

Disgusted, but not surprised

Well that feels like it throws a rather sizable wrench in some of my project plans.

"Yup. That tasted purple."