New entries on the bottom. Per wiki policy, all spoilers on Headscratchers pages are unmarked.
open/close all folders
The Trinity Processor
- So Origin apparently had all three of the Trinity Processors at one point. Presumably Pyra and Mythra could turn back into Pneuma and we see Shulk find Ontos on a beach in a flashback, but where the hell did the Alrest crew get a spare Logos from? Malos straight up dissolved into light and left no trace of himself when he died, Logos core and all.
- One way to explain it would be to assume that, just like Pneuma and (eventually) Ontos got split into two, so too was Logos at some point. The problem is figuring out when that could've happened.
- Part of Klaus's final gift was making the Logos core reappear again perhaps? Otherwise this sounds like a Plot Hole, given that it would be hard to justify Logos splitting himself in two when he was already dead, considering Pneuma and Ontos only did it when they were alive.
- Where is it said Origin had all three? It was only stated that Ontos' Core was used as a power source and that the core was used as the basis for Origin's overall design. We see all three cores being in the Trinity Processor, but this was a flashback to the original, was it not? Further, it's repeatedly stated Logos and Pneuma are no longer around, making it unclear just what the Malos-like energy and Pneuma-like Core Crystal mean beyond that there is some connection there. Perhaps, Pyra, Mythra and Malos simply could no longer be what Pneuma and Logos were, given how they had developed into new beings, but could still serve other functions. We know Malos continued to exist and had some link to the living world, given how he speaks to Pneuma after death.
How long had Rex, Shulk and the others been in Aionios?
- In parts it seems like the game is pointing to them being there from its inception (for instance Linka explaining that unlike most people, they were not assimilated into Origin when Aionios was born), like Nia and Melia (and apparently Riku), and that their aging is either stopped or very slow (with Riku not changing at all in a thousand years and him taking it as a given that he'll be living that long, despite most Nopon living far shorter lives or at least aging significantly more in appearance). They seem to be much more in-the-know about Lucky Seven, Melia and Nia's situations, and if they were present they would have been there for well over a hundred years (as N went through several lives and then 70 years passed after their life as Ghondor's father ended). Yet, unlike the Nopon (who in this all seem to have ages listed as question marks), Panacea and Linka are noted to be only 18 and 19 (albeit while Linka celebrates her birthday in a quest, her age in the community list does not change) and implied to have been raised by their mentors starting in childhood when Aionios caused them to be separated from their parents. What's more, a lot of dialog from Rex and Shulk suggests they have not been in Aionios for long enough to have even explored it fully, as they have not been in the Colony Nine area for long (a lot of scenes noting its the first time they've seen certain places since they were back in their original worlds), and Rex specifically notes that being there to work with Matthew seems to be the reason they didn't become part of Origin, suggesting they were somehow brought forward in time to oppose Alpha. Z also explains that Alpha has been in control of Origin for "over a decade," and this must have happened not long after his battle with Rex, Shulk and Z as once it did happen Z became unable to leave the depths of Origin. Further, the first City is explicitly said to have been founded by Agnians and Kevesi who gained Ouroboros power and rebelled against Moebius, with no sign that the Liberators were involved (only that Nia was involved). There is also no sign that Linka or Panacea lived for longer or aged any differently than the rest of the second City's people. Is there any dialog that clarifies things?
- All that is clarified for certain is that this is 15 years since Melia was abducted into Origin, so the robo-Queens are ruling.
- I wouldn't say that is clarified at all. Riku states Melia being captured happened "yonks and yonks" ago soon after Ouroboros power was used for the first time (and we know that power in that imperfect state has been used for a lot longer than 15 years) and the power proved inadequate, leading to Melia's capture and Nia going into hiding. Unless I missed something, 15 years ago was apparently simply a big battle that made Moebius leave the City alone for a while (or simply was the last battle Moebius had with the City before Alpha taking over Origin made Z take his focus off them).
- Linka's comment implies the people from the old worlds were spawned into Aionios intact from day one, as opposed to loaded from Origin's data after the fact. At the very least, Noah and Mio have gone through roughly five cycles' worth of lives before then reaching Homecoming age, and then 70 more years have passed in between to get to Matthew's generation, so a good amount of time has passed since then. That Glimmer mentions a Homecoming ceremony instead of the Consul decapitation procedure that used to happen implies that much time has passed since then, which would imply the Liberators to be at least a thousand years old. And while it's not the most reliable measure (many of the child models for the main party in 3 are just their current models shrunk down because generating a separate model for the various ages takes work), character model rips for the intro cutscene with Shulk and Rex versus Alpha indicates nothing about them changed aside from their injuries and hair length, with any seeming change in age lines between the flashback being the result of lighting hiding them. So presumably Panacea and Linka have been frozen at their current ages for a long time, both are also conveniently old enough to have a family bearing their name and not be too weird, and if either of them are dead by the present, most likely they died in battle rather than due to old age.
- There are some problems with the above as far as them indicating how much time has passed, recall that the decapitation was also considered a "ceremony" of sorts and was also called Homecoming. That Glimmer describes it as offering up her life instead of being "sent" further implies she is talking about the decapitation (Ashera also said the beheading was described as "offering up" life)). Besides, we know the sending version of Homecoming didn't start until after M became a Moebius, after the City was destroyed, etc. The thousand years is how much time passed after the sending ceremony for Homecoming started. So the five cycles plus 70 years would amount to a minimum of 130 years before the events of Future Redeemed, more if Noah and Mio weren't reborn after each death within a year. Alpha took over Origin over a decade before Future Redeemed, but if that wasn't the same event where Rex, Shulk and Z faced him then we're in the dark about how long ago that fight was, so I'm inclined to think they were the same event. So we are left again with the issues I gave for how Rex, Shulk, Panacea and Linka do not act like they have been in Aionios for decades, let alone a century, i.e. there are many places in the game where its stated they haven't seen a particular location in Aionios before (instead remarking on how they last saw it in their original worlds), which would be hard to believe if they have been wandering around for over a hundred years. That Linka and Panacea have stated ages unlike the Nopon also goes against the idea they are older than they look. One idea I've seen is that they were somehow sent from their old worlds into Aionios around the time that Alpha emerged (i.e. around 15 years before Future Redeemed), presumably in order to confront him.
- Some Nopon have ages, some don't. The ones who don't could be chalked down to keeping information secret. As for the locations, the world of Aionios is constantly changing because of Annihilation Events and battles, and it's implied by the main story of 3 that the scale of the world is a lot bigger than gameplay suggests, was even bigger a thousand years ago, and we know that it still takes quite a lot of time in-universe even when the heroes are in a mad rush, so it's not that weird that they wouldn't have noticed some things. The battle with Alpha seems to have happened after Shulk and Rex had been fighting with Z for at least a while, and if that cutscene is supposed to have been relatively recent, then it's probably because of how Alpha draws strength from the new lives of the City. There wouldn't have been enough of them in the past to fuel him to act beforehand.
- Moreover, knowing the implication that Mio is one of Rex's three children, and that she would go on to give birth to Ghondor, how and why does Rex look decades younger than Ghondor if he's been in Aionios since day one? N at least has the excuse that he's Moebius and his age has been in stasis, but what's Rex's excuse?
- They're not part of the cycle, same as Nia and Melia (who has definitely outlasted the couple of centuries she would usually have), and same as it's strongly implied of at least a portion of the members of the Nopon caravans (this plus their other knowledge of the old world also being implied for why they held a truce with Moebius not to interfere). If you're not tied to the Flame Clock or born within Aionios (whether due to being Moebius or from the old world) then it follows that you don't have to abide by the same rules.
- The Aionios Moments Artbook features an interview that has since clarified a lot of this. Namely, Rex and Shulk (and presumably their students) indeed had only been in Aionios for a few years, having been incarnated into the world in order to oppose Alpha. They were not immortal (at least before ascending to support Origin and entering a state where lifespan had no meaning), hence why giving their lifespans to Glimmer and Nikol only gave the two normal human lifespans. On the other hand, all Nopon have unlimited lifespans in Aionios, meaning every Nopon with a stated age in their bio is probably lying (unless they were newly born into Aionios).
Core Crystals
- When Shulk and Rex explain the origins of Aionios, Rex mentions how Core Crystals are dominant. So then why do none of the natural-born humans in the modern City a thousand years later have any Core Crystals? It doesn't make any sense for the trait to dwindle in numbers over time when almost every Agnian has one.
- Perhaps there was a bit of a mistranslation, and what Rex meant was that Alpha would have considered someone with a Core Crystal as a preferable host, given the subject of the conversation was why Alpha chose Na'el? Alternatively, perhaps even a dominant trait can eventually be bred out if enough people with Core Crystals got killed in battles with Moebius before reproducing (keep in mind that after Matthew vanished there was no one left who could free soldiers so no more Agnians would be joining the City). That is, perhaps at least one parent with a Core Crystal is required to pass one down (i.e. none of Matthew's descendants in that case would have ever had Core Crystals). A lot can happen with a relatively small population in a thousand years if the right or wrong people don't pass on their genes.
Passing down Blades
- Matthew mentions several times that his Blades were passed down to him by his grandfather. There was some mention of this in the base game, where Shania had Titania's gun, but there the implication was that she was merely choosing the same Blade (since anyone with Ouroboros blood can do a weaker version of the class switch). So at first glance, it seems like Matthew just picked the same weapon as his grandfather. Except then it turns out that the fists have Pneuma's core crystal in them, implying more strongly that they were actually physically passed down. But... how? A Blade is linked to the person who made it. How could Ghondor his Matthew his Blade in such a way that now Matthew can summon and dismiss it? Most of these questions can also be directed at the last Noah and Lucky Seven, with the additional note that he should have been born with his own Blade before Riku gave him Lucky Seven.
- Perhaps as an extension of being Ouroboros, it is possible to genuinely transfer a Blade rather than make the usual Ouroboros copy. It is also stated a piece of Origin makes up Matthew's Blade, so it wasn't simply created as an extension of Ghondor, likely somehow someone actually built it and it became a Blade.
- Noah was born with his own Blade - it can be seen briefly in the flashback explaining how he got Lucky Seven, and appears to look like a generic Kevesi sword (but painted red). Riku presumably physically upgraded it to the version seen in the game while fitting the katana inside; all Ouroboros Blades are also treated as physical objects to some extent, as characters can be seen tinkering with theirs, and a late-game sidequest allows the party's default weapons to be upgraded to more powerful versions.
No explanation whatsoever currently exists for how N got his Blade (or rather, the stuff hidden inside it), as it apparently looked the same it does in the present before he even became Moebius... and if it does contain Logos, that raises a lot of questions.
The game is a bit vague on how the Ouroboros Power Copying works, as when Noah's Veiled Sword is duplicated by party members using the Swordfighter class, it retains its upgraded looks but not Lucky Seven, but this may be a case of Gameplay and Story Segregation.
