History YMMV / Suikoden

* MagnificentBastard: [[YMMV/SuikodenII Jowy]] and [[YMMV/SuikodenIII the Masked Bishop]] count. See their games' pages for details.

* MagnificentBastard:
** The evil inclined Silverbergs tend to turn into these. So does Jowy, who becomes [[spoiler:king of the Highlands]] thanks to his machinations.
** Shu in ''VideoGame/SuikodenII'': using poorly-armed members of the North Window Base as a diversion, as well as throwing poor Pilika out as crossbow shield too.

* CompleteMonster: [[YMMV/SuikodenI Neclord]] (also in the second game); [[YMMV/SuikodenII Luca Blight & Neclord]]; [[YMMV/SuikodenV Childerich]]. See those pages for details.

* CompleteMonster: [[VideoGame/SuikodenI Neclord]]; [[VideoGame/SuikodenII Luca Blight & Neclord]]; [[VideoGame/SuikodenV Childerich]]. See those pages for more details.

* HoYay / LesYay:
** It's easy to read Gremio being this towards TheHero in the first game. Almost every sentence he speaks relates in some way to the "young master". Though he claims he thinks of Tir as more of a son or brother.
** Lucretia from V, with both Cathari and Lelei. Lelei has a decidedly suggestive scene where she suggests that Lucretia not go to bed just yet on the night before the big battle, while Cathari notes that she and Lucretia were "more than just friends" when she joins.
** And then there's ''most'' of the [[FuroScene bath scenes]].
** Richard's complete and utter admiration of Mueller in V borderlines this.
** Basically ''any'' of the male Narcissists, especially when they interact with each other.
** Riou and Jowy from the second game certainly apply.

* HoYay / LesYay
** Its easy to read Gremio being this towards TheHero in the first game. Almost every sentence he speaks relates in some way to the "young master". Though he claims he thinks of Tir as more of a son or brother.

--> '''[[spoiler: Gremio]]''': [[spoiler: The spores are at my feet. I can't see anymore.]]

* PlayerPunch: Nearly every game in the series contains at at least one star's death in the storyline and one important character's betrayal; generally, the main death is reversible or avertable if you collect all 108 stars of destiny, while the betrayal is not. These all tend to be player punches to some degree...

* JerkWithAHeartOfGold: Chris is a fairly decent person, but her personality can be kind of grating. She comes off as a bitch to practically everyone. She's a lot better in the manga adaptation, though.

* {{Narm}}: In the first game, Viktor ruins a legitimately cool/dramatic scene on confronting Milich with this one line:
-->''Black Rune, [[color:fuchsia:Pink Balloon]], what's the difference!? This scoundrel killed [[spoiler:Gremio]]!''

* ThatOneBoss:
** The Zombie Dragon from the first game is specifically memorable, as your team is still relatively weak at this stage of the game. If you didn't bring healing items and runes, chances are you won't survive the encounter.
** [[VideoGame/{{Suikoden}} Sonya Shulen]]. She's ''[[LightningBruiser insanely fast]]'' so she almost always attacks first before half your party. She takes half-damage from all magic, {{counter attack}}s like crazy, and spams a powerful magic attack that can take out your melee fighters in two turns.
* ThatOneSidequest: Assembling all of the Stars of Destiny.

** Also Futch [[spoiler: after his dragon Black is killed, and he is exiled from the Dragon Knights as a result.]]
** Also Leon Silverberg, [[spoiler: considering that both his [[strike: children]] niece Odessa and nephew Mathiu die by the end of the game and that he is truly alone without his family.]]

** [[VideoGame/SuikodenII Luca Blight]] crosses it when he massacres the Unicorn Youth Brigade, putting the blame for the deaths of the young soldiers on a Jowston attack.
** [[VideoGame/SuikodenTierkreis Valfred]] crosses it when he [[spoiler:erases a ''country and his population'', The Magedom of Janam, who was opposing him, with Manaril and Shams' family inside it.]]

%%** Ted from the first game.

** Also Leon Silverberg, [[spoiler: considering that both his [[strike: children]] niece Odessa and nephew Mathiu die by the end of the game and that he is truly alone without his family.]]

** ''VideoGame/SuikodenIII'' was this before Tierkreis. Despite getting excellent reviews from most markets, the fanbase was broken, largely over [[TheyChangedItNowItSucks changes to the battle system.]]
*** Worth noting is that it was a very dramatic breaking; most fans either thought it was ruined or it wasn't at all. Comes up more often than any game besides II in most "Best Suikoden" threads in forums.

* EnsembleDarkhorse: Viktor and Flik
** Also another darkhorse? ''Pesmerga''. This guy is always a late-joiner, contributes probably nothing to the plot, and can be accused of CoolButInefficient (lack of rune slot and options for customization). And he's only in for 2 games like Viktor/Flik. His fanbase is huge, thanks to his connection with Yuber as well as his badass BlackKnight attire, and his default powerful stats for those who just doesn't want to bother with customization.

* MagnificentBastard: The evil inclined Silverbergs tend to turn into these. Strangely enough, so does Jowy.
** Why not include Shu (from II) in there while you're at it? I mean, look at his strategies: Using poorly-armed members of the North Window Base as a diversion, as well as throwing poor Pilika out as crossbow shield too.

* NightmareFuel: All of the games have this in one form or another and in varying intensities

*** Really, in all fairness, [[spoiler: Gremio seemed pretty damn calm about the whole thing. Though that may just be the translation, or the limitations of the medium at the time. The former seems to be more like it with the Drama CD, whereas Creator/TakehitoKoyasu delivers his line as trying to stay steadfast in the face of death.]]

** II has Luca Blight - period. Of course, what happens to Muse is bad too, but Luca still takes the cake.

** The fact that the Rune of Punishment slowly kills its user every time he uses it in IV.
** V - Childerich and Nether Gate in general.

* ThatOneBoss: There were a good amount of these, but the Zombie Dragon from the first game is specifically memorable here.

* TooCoolToLive: Let's see...

* TheWoobie: Ted from the first game, so very much.

* CrowningMusicOfAwesome: Every game has at least one track which is just plain awesome either due to the music itself or the scene in which it's played.
** II gets several, particularly the [[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_f4eGQ9MIWM opening sequence]] before the title screen, [[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aXuJ2cHx7Aw Gothic Neclord]], and [[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MX8fKtjpr_E The Chase ~ Battle Against Luca]].
** Though it has several of its own as well, V's is arguably [[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lUklWjawYno Determination ~ Tragic Battle]] which you hear bits and pieces of in several spots in the later half of the game, but it isn't played in full and you don't get its full impact until [[spoiler:the battle versus Sialeeds]].
** As a whole, III's soundtrack wasn't quite as memorable, but [[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8YmQoREyleE&feature=related this opening sequence]] = instant goosebumps.

** In Suikoden II, the main trio is saved by Anabelle, mayor of Muse, who take them under her wing after they are exiled for a crime they didn't commit. [[spoiler:In order to get closer to Lucca and put himself in a position of power within the Highland army, Jowy ends up betraying her by assassinating her in the middle of the night and by opening the gates of Muse, allowing the Highland army to launch a surprise attack. The main protagonist and his sister, Nanami, are left dumbfounded by this turn of events, and to top it all the crime is pinned on them]].

** At least one person went into deep mourning after [[spoiler:Sialeeds' betrayal]] in ''VideoGame/SuikodenV''. A much, ''much'' worse PlayerPunch is [[spoiler:Lyon's sudden death]], though this can be averted with HundredPercentCompletion.
* TheScrappy: We may as well rename the second to last Star as 'The Star of Scrappies' since it mostly produces hatedom-generating characters, such as Krin, Hoi, Guillaume... . There's also Kenji (not of the same Star), who is disliked due to his ridiculous fighting style. I mean... using aerobics and jogging to fight!? Can't forget Snowe either.
** It's worth noting that Guillaume is a French, overweight, cheating, dog kicking, lying paedophile. It's safe to say he at least was intentional.
*** [[EpilepticTrees Guillaume is not human]].

* PlayerPunch: Nearly every game in the series contains at at least one star's death in the storyline and one important character's betrayal; generally, the main death is reversible or avertable if you collect all 108 stars of destiny, while the betrayal is not. These all tend to be player punches to some degree... At least one person went into deep mourning after [[spoiler: Sialeeds' betrayal]] in ''VideoGame/SuikodenV''. A much, ''much'' worse PlayerPunch is [[spoiler:Lyon's sudden death]], though this can be averted with HundredPercentCompletion.

*** What!? Nothing on the deaths of Yun and Jimba in III?! You can't reverse either one, which makes this Troper sad because the only time to use Jimba is before you start the Cyndar Ruins story.
** It's not a death, but, what about when Jowy went to visit the nice lady that took you, your sister, your ward and him in, after the trio were exiled for a crime they didn't commit [[spoiler:and knifed her]]?

* CompleteMonster:
** In ''VideoGame/SuikodenII'', [[BigBad Luca Blight]], [[TheCaligula the Mad Prince]] of the Highland Kingdom, stands in stark contrast to the ambiguous nature of the franchise's other villains. While he has a FreudianExcuse in being ForcedToWatch the rape of his mother by Muse ruffians after his cowardly father fled, it is inexcusable when compared to the sheer scale of his atrocities. [[BloodKnight Luca relishes killing]] and expresses a [[PitifulWorms hatred and disgust for all life]]. His EstablishingCharacterMoment is building up public support for a war against Jowston by having his own youth brigade, just children training to be soldiers, slaughtered by his troops disguised as Jowston soldiers. Later, he is seen burning a defenseless village to the ground and killing villagers. When one woman begs for her life, he tells her to act like a pig. After complying and asking if she's free to leave, Luca instead murders her while shouting, "''Die pig!''" After a mercenary fortress falls to Luca early in the game, Luca is found running Pohl, a teenage boy, through with his sword before turning his attention on a very young girl named Pilika, whose parent he had already killed in an earlier encounter. Though he is prevented from killing her as well, the traumatic situation causes Pilika to become mute. Later he sacrifices the entire population of the city of Muse to the Beast Rune while Jowy watches in complete horror, as does the party outside the city. Luca's gleeful depravity turns against him, [[EvenEvilHasStandards when Jowy and other Highlanders]] [[ZeroPercentApprovalRating betray him to the player's army]] by setting up an ambush in the forest. Even as he dies though, Luca never once stops relishing in just how monstrous he truly is.
--> "It took hundreds to kill me, but I slaughtered humans by the ''thousands''! Look at me! I am sublime! [[CardCarryingVillain I AM THE TRUE FACE OF EVIL!!!]]"
** Neclord the vampire. There once existed a place called Blue Moon Village, which was inhabited by peaceful vampires whose thirst for blood was satiated by the presence of the Moon Rune. Neclord, in his lust for power, allowed himself to be turned into a vampire, ingratiated himself into the village, then stole the rune from the village’s altar. This resulted in the vampires of the town being forced to [[SadisticChoice choose between killing people to extend their lives, or perish themselves]]. Desiring more power still, Neclord joined forces with [[BigBad Windy]] and decimated places like the Village of the Hidden Rune to obtain more True Runes. He also, [[ForTheEvulz on a whim]], attacked the village of North Window, killing and zombifying all its inhabitants to use as his undead army. He later did the same thing to the soldiers of Lorimar Fortress after Windy made him Lorimar’s governor. As governor, Neclord demanded that his people sacrifice him [[IHaveYouNowMyPretty one young girl a year to be his bride]]. Their screams from his castle could be heard by the villagers. After his defeat in VideoGame/SuikodenI, Neclord returned to North Window and began abducting women who strayed too close to the village. When Viktor, a former North Window resident, returns to seek revenge on Neclord, Neclord responds by reviving Viktor’s LoveInterest, Daisy, whom Neclord had murdered. Neclord offered to bring Daisy back to life in exchange for the sword Viktor was going to use to kill him, however Viktor realized the dead couldn’t be brought back except as zombies, and killed Daisy himself causing Neclord to flee. Eventually, Neclord attacked Tinto City, hoping to take it over and make a new zombie kingdom for himself. During this time he also abducted Lo Wen and Lilly Pendragon, the daughter of Tinto’s mayor, to be his brides.
** ''VideoGame/SuikodenV'' has Childerich. See that page for more details/

** [[VideoGame/SuikodenII Luca Blight]] crosses it when he massacres the Unicorn Brigade, putting the blame for the deaths of the young soldiers on a Jowston attack.

** [[VideoGame/SuikodenII Luca Blight]] crosses it when he massacres the Unicorn Brigade, putting the blame for the deaths of the young

** ''VideoGame/SuikodenII Luca Blight'' crosses it when he massacres the Unicorn Brigade, putting the blame for the deaths of the young
** ''VideoGame/SuikodenTierkreis Valfred'' crosses it when he [[spoiler:erases a ''country and his population'', The Magedom of Janam, who was opposing him, with Manaril and Shams' family inside it.]]

* PlayerPunch: Nearly every game in the series contains at at least one star's death in the storyline and one important character's betrayal; generally, the main death is reversible or avertable if you collect all 108 stars of destiny, while the betrayal is not. These all tend to be player punches to some degree... At least one person went into deep mourning after [[spoiler: Sialeeds' betrayal]] in ''{{Suikoden}} V''. A much, ''much'' worse PlayerPunch is [[spoiler:Lyon's sudden death]], though this can be averted with HundredPercentCompletion.

** [[{{Suikoden}} Sonya Shulen]]. She's ''[[LightningBruiser insanely fast]]'' so she almost always attacks first before half your party. She takes half-damage from all magic, {{counter attack}}s like crazy, and spams a powerful magic attack that can take out your melee fighters in two turns.

* GameBreaker:
** Viki in ''Suikoden V'', whose powerful Chain Magic ability- once trained up- lets her cast incredibly powerful spells twice in a row at no additional MP cost, letting you wipe out enemies with astounding ease. Not to mention [[BlackMage Zerase]]'s completely overpowered [[PureEnergy Star Rune]], and [[MasterSwordsman Richard]]'s [[LightningBruiser godly stats]].
*** Viki isn't quite so broken as she seems; her non-removable Blinking Rune isn't that great, and the position it's stuck in means that she can never equip a Magic Absorb Rune. Meanwhile, the Magic Absorb Rune itself is ''even more'' of a game-breaker in that game -- in earlier games, it recovered a single spell of the lowest level only, 15% of the time when your attacks hit. In V, for some reason it recovers a spell of ''any level'', 100% of the time, every single attack -- including high-level spells that, for most of the game, you would otherwise only be able to cast a handful of times over the course of a level, boss fight, or whatever. With a Magic Absorb Rune, you can cast them ''every other round'' and never run out.
** How on earth did this section exist without Emily ([[SuikodenI Ronnie Bell]]'s daughter) from ''SuikodenIII''? Train up Emily, give her a Fury or Double-Strike rune and watch her obliterate any boss in one round before they even have a chance to make one move. Her only limitation is that she doesn't have Continual Attack, which [[TheBerserker Juan]] does (he starts every battle asleep, though.)
** In ''Suikoden IV'', the team of the hero, Kika, Ted, and Snowe is also considered a GameBreaker, because of the astounding ease at which they can take down any opponent. In fact, Kika alone could be considered a GameBreaker, since her Falcon Rune does about 3x her normal damage, never misses, can be used infinitely, and has no apparent drawbacks. Slap a Fury Rune on her and you've got a character capable of one-shotting almost any non-boss.
** Sheena can be turned into a Game Breaker at higher levels in II.
** The more powerful unite attacks in the series can become this as well.
** Georg in V can be a Game Breaker in the right hands. Although slapping a Double-Edged Rune on him is risky, since his magic defense is poor, he can pretty much rip a huge hole in almost anything with one on. For that matter, Isabel, Mathias and Miakis have devastating setups too.
** Tir and [[OldMaster Kai]]'s CombinationAttack in I. Auto-hits every enemy in the fight for twice normal damage. Say goodbye to random encounters that last more than one turn. Tir also happens to have a spell that means [[OneHitKill instant death]] to every [[ContractualBossImmunity non-boss in the fight]]... which ''always works'', unlike [[UselessUsefulSpell instant death attacks in nearly every other game]].
** Also [[ThoseTwoGuys Alen and Grenseal]] from the 1st game. Aside of decent stats, they came permanently stuck with Rage Rune and Thunder Rune, which gives access with lots of high-level damage spells and when they're sufficiently levelled, they can combine their runes for extra damage. To add this up, they can do a Combination Attack with Flik that usually does over 1000 damage even on non-maxed weapon (and always hit), making boss fights MUCH easier.
** In the first game, if you manage to find the final water rune and the final wind rune and manage to have two people in your party use their final spells, you will hit all of the enemies on the screen ''ForMassiveDamage'' and heal most of your health at the same time. This is particularly useful for the later boss fights, especially the last boss fight.
** In the first game, there are a couple of exploits for taking a detour from TheOneTrueSequence. Before going to the castle, go outside, alone, and run away from enemies until you find three [[{{Mooks}} BonBons]]. Easy kill, and hey, level 9! After that, you have a choice of going to Sarady either by yourself or with Ted. Go alone, you get the Fortune Rune (double EXP); go with Ted, you get the Prosperity Rune (double money).

** Despite getting solid reviews and considered one of the better RPG outings on the DS, SuikodenTierkreis annoyed many fans due to its lack of ContinuityNod.
** SuikodenIII was this before Tierkreis. Despite getting excellent reviews from most markets, the fanbase was broken, largely over [[TheyChangedItNowItSucks changes to the battle system.]] ** For some, the multiple protagonists.

** SuikodenIV got it even worse for [[ArbitraryHeadCountLimit limiting the player to four party members]], [[GoddamnedBats upping the random encounter rate]], and shortening the overall length of the game (it's not hard to beat the whole thing in 20 hours with 108 stars, whereas it's nearly impossible to get through III in under 40 or so), and being set 150 years before all the other game... so the only returning characters are/were very minor in their previous/later appearances. Particularly, the combination of the smaller party size and shorter game made it very hard to get to know most of the cast.

** Also [[ThoseTwoGuys Alen and Grenseal]] from the 1st game. Aside of decent stats, they came permanently stuck with Rage Rune and Thunder Rune, which gives access with lots of high-level damage spells and when they're sufficiently levelled, they can combine their runes ForMassiveDamage. To add this up, they can do a Combination Attack with Flik that usually does over 1000 damage even on non-maxed weapon (and always hit), making boss fights MUCH easier.

** Also another darkhorse? ''Pesmerga''. This guy is always a late-joiner, contributes probably nothing to the plot, and can be accused of CoolButInefficient (lack of rune slot and options for customization). And he's only in for 2 games like Viktor/Flik. His fanbase is huge, thanks to his connection with Yuber as well as his {{Badass}} BlackKnight attire, and his default powerful stats for those who just doesn't want to bother with customization.

** ''Videogame/SuikodenV'' gives us Childerich, an AxeCrazy PsychoForHire and Luca Blight {{Expy}} working for the [[BigBadDuumvirate Godwin Faction]]. Childerich is a sadist who lives to [[BloodKnight fight]] and kill. Even his own allies aren't safe from him, [[StupidEvil as he executes Godwin supporters because their town was conquered by the Rebels]], [[InsaneTrollLogic claiming that they were traitors for letting that happen]]. He's also a BadBoss, using his own men as human shields during some battles, and a {{Jerkass}} towards his allies. During the Second Battle of Doraat, he would have chosen to burn the whole city rather than letting it fall into the hands of the Prince's army, and is only stopped by [[EvenEvilHasStandards Admiral Luger]] who rightfully states that his mass executions of their own supporters have turned the city against them. During the Battle of Stormist, after a failed ambsuh, Childerich ingests [[PsychoSerum Raging Nostrum]] to try to [[TakingYouWithMe take the Prince with him]]. His last moments are spent repeating the same MadnessMantra, which sums up what he did his entire life...
-->'''Childerich''': "Kill kill kill kill kill kill kill kill kill kill kill kill..."

*** Really, in all fairness, [[spoiler: Gremio seemed pretty damn calm about the whole thing. Though that may just be the translation, or the limitations of the medium at the time.]]

** The fact that the Rune of Punishment slowly kills its user every time he uses it could count as one of IV's.

* TooCoolToLive: Let´s see...
** In Suikoden I you have [[spoiler:Ted (your best friend)]] the original host of the Soul Eater. Arguably [[spoiler:Teo (your father)]] could count as well but that would be more of Too Stubborn/Loyal to live. To some, [[spoiler:Odessa]] could very much count, but [[spoiler:her death]] did help Flik into [[CharacterDevelopment developing]] to the fan favorite we all know and love this day.

** Worth noting is that it was a very dramatic breaking; most fans either thought it was ruined or it wasn't at all. Comes up more often than any game besides II in most "Best Suikoden" threads in forums.

* Jerk with a Heart of Gold: Chris is a fairly decent person, but her personality can be kind of grating. She comes off as a bitch to practically everyone. She's a lot better in the manga adaptation, though.