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* TheScrappy: A LOT of fans hate whoever is on the side of Law in each game that has a Law-Neutral-Chaos axis, such as the Messians in ''ShinMegamiTenseiI'' and ''[[ShinMegamiTenseiII II]]'', Amane in ''DevilSurvivor'', and [[spoiler:Zelenin and the Three Wise Men]] in ''StrangeJourney''. You'll see a lot of people rooting for Neutral and Chaos, and rarely anyone who likes Law. For that matter, [[InternetBackdraft forget about saying that you like Law.]]

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* TheScrappy: A LOT of fans hate whoever is on the side of Law in each game that has a Law-Neutral-Chaos axis, such as the Messians in ''ShinMegamiTenseiI'' and ''[[ShinMegamiTenseiII II]]'', Amane in ''DevilSurvivor'', ''VideoGame/DevilSurvivor'', and [[spoiler:Zelenin and the Three Wise Men]] in ''StrangeJourney''. You'll see a lot of people rooting for Neutral and Chaos, and rarely anyone who likes Law. For that matter, [[InternetBackdraft forget about saying that you like Law.]]



** This was noticeably absent in DevilSurvivor and the later installments of the Persona series, both of which used a more manga, cartoony style, that severely contrasted with all the NightmareFuel of the game.

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** This was noticeably absent in DevilSurvivor VideoGame/DevilSurvivor and the later installments of the Persona series, both of which used a more manga, cartoony style, that severely contrasted with all the NightmareFuel of the game.



** Many speculate that the only reason many of the games--even the less violent ones such as ''{{Persona 3}}'' and ''[[{{Persona4}} 4]]''--have M-ratings in the United States is because of [[GagPenis Mara]], who is absent in ''DevilSurvivor'' games, one of the few series in the franchise to carry a T-rating.

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** Many speculate that the only reason many of the games--even the less violent ones such as ''{{Persona 3}}'' and ''[[{{Persona4}} 4]]''--have M-ratings in the United States is because of [[GagPenis Mara]], who is absent in ''DevilSurvivor'' ''VideoGame/DevilSurvivor'' games, one of the few series in the franchise to carry a T-rating.
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* VisualEffectsOfAwesome - Some of the designs for demons are truly awesome (which is why they can be downright [[HighOctaneNightmareFuel terrifying]]). For example, [[http://megamitensei.wikia.com/wiki/Beelzebub Beelzebub]].

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* VisualEffectsOfAwesome - Some of the designs for demons are truly awesome (which is why they can be downright [[HighOctaneNightmareFuel [[NightmareFuel terrifying]]). For example, [[http://megamitensei.wikia.com/wiki/Beelzebub Beelzebub]].

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Removed: 94

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Cleaning up Nightmare Fuel


* HighOctaneNightmareFuel - ''[[HighOctaneNightmareFuel/ShinMegamiTensei By the truckload!]]''



** This was noticeably absent in DevilSurvivor and the later installments of the Persona series, both of which used a more manga, cartoony style, that severely contrasted with all the HighOctaneNightmareFuel of the game.

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** This was noticeably absent in DevilSurvivor and the later installments of the Persona series, both of which used a more manga, cartoony style, that severely contrasted with all the HighOctaneNightmareFuel NightmareFuel of the game.
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** If you were wondering what the above spoiler means, [[spoiler: it refers to the fact that Lucifer tricks a young man, trying to save his friend, into kick-starting the apocalypse. Just for Lucifer's amusement.]]
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** It really depends on the game rather than those two being the only options. Chaos is portrayed far more positively in Devil Summoner 2 [[spoiler:Lucifer and his manipulations aside]] and not every game wants a world of Social Darwinism. Not to mention the [[SadisticChoice choice is between a Z-Class or endless cycle of X-Class]] ApocalypseHow till all of humanities free will is taken away by [[GodIsEvil God]].

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** It really depends on the game rather than those two being the only options. Chaos is portrayed far more positively in Devil Summoner 2 [[spoiler:Lucifer and his manipulations aside]] and not every game wants a world of Social Darwinism. Not to mention the [[SadisticChoice choice is between a Z-Class or endless cycle of X-Class]] ApocalypseHow till all of humanities humanity's free will is taken away by [[GodIsEvil God]].



** ''Nocturne'' even got an A in Japan, wich basically means suitable for everyone. Note that this game is considerably more difficult than the already difficult ''DigitalDevilSaga'' and ''Persona'' sub-series, you get turned into a demon by having a snake-like parasite get ''dropped into your eye'' '''in first-person perspective''' and [[spoiler: you can become the literal [[TheAntiChrist anti-Christ]] as you ''become the new General for the legions of Hell/Darkness to wage war against {{God}}'']].
** Many speculate that the only reason many of the games--even the less violent ones such as ''{{Persona 3}}'' and ''[[{{Persona4}} 4]]'' have M-ratings in the United States is because of [[GagPenis Mara]], who is absent in ''DevilSurvivor'', one of the few games in the franchise to carry a T-rating.

to:

** ''Nocturne'' even got an A in Japan, wich which basically means suitable for everyone. Note that this game is considerably more difficult than the already difficult ''DigitalDevilSaga'' and ''Persona'' sub-series, you get turned into a demon by having a snake-like parasite get ''dropped into your eye'' '''in first-person perspective''' and [[spoiler: you can become the literal [[TheAntiChrist anti-Christ]] as you ''become the new General for the legions of Hell/Darkness to wage war against {{God}}'']].
** Many speculate that the only reason many of the games--even the less violent ones such as ''{{Persona 3}}'' and ''[[{{Persona4}} 4]]'' have 4]]''--have M-ratings in the United States is because of [[GagPenis Mara]], who is absent in ''DevilSurvivor'', ''DevilSurvivor'' games, one of the few games series in the franchise to carry a T-rating.
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* DidNotDoTheResearch: For a series [[ShownTheirWork usually good for this]], there are sometimes some glaring errors on the [[NeedsMoreLove less historically popular creatures]]. For example [[ShapeShiftingLover sel]][[CelticMythology kies]] were misspelled as "Silky" and given the house spirit backstory of brownies. Yet they appeared as themselves in the DevilChildren games so at least {{Atlus}} retcons its mistakes.
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* SuperlativeDubbing - Always a bit subjective, but with both of the ''Digital Devil Saga'' games, ''Persona 3'' and ''Persona 4'' getting noted in ''major reviews'' for having excellent voicework, the franchise is beginning to pick up something of a reputation for this.
** This is so prominent for Atlus USA that the release of the ''Persona 1'' remake had full voice in all cutscenes when the Japanese release only had text, seemingly ''because'' people have come to expect excellent voicework from the franchise.
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** It really depends on the game rather than those two being the only options. Chaos is portrayed far more positively in Devil Summoner 2 [[spoiler:Lucifer and his manipulations aside]] and not every game wants a world of Social Darwinism. Not to mention [[SadisticChoice choice between a Z-Class or endless cycle of X-Class]] ApocalypseHow till all of humanities free will is taken away by [[GodIsEvil God]].

to:

** It really depends on the game rather than those two being the only options. Chaos is portrayed far more positively in Devil Summoner 2 [[spoiler:Lucifer and his manipulations aside]] and not every game wants a world of Social Darwinism. Not to mention the [[SadisticChoice choice is between a Z-Class or endless cycle of X-Class]] ApocalypseHow till all of humanities free will is taken away by [[GodIsEvil God]].God]].
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None

Added DiffLines:

** It really depends on the game rather than those two being the only options. Chaos is portrayed far more positively in Devil Summoner 2 [[spoiler:Lucifer and his manipulations aside]] and not every game wants a world of Social Darwinism. Not to mention [[SadisticChoice choice between a Z-Class or endless cycle of X-Class]] ApocalypseHow till all of humanities free will is taken away by [[GodIsEvil God]].
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* DracoInLeatherPants - There is ''nothing'' wrong with liking Chaos. Remember, though - that's the side that, while wanting to preserve Humanity, was the one to put the [[MoralEventHorizon Z-Class]] ApocalypseHow in the table. Just saying.

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* DracoInLeatherPants - There is ''nothing'' wrong with liking Chaos. Remember, though - that's the side that, while wanting to preserve Humanity, was the one to put the [[MoralEventHorizon Z-Class]] ApocalypseHow in on the table.table and desires a Social Darwinst world with no restraint whatsoever. Just saying.
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* DracoInLeatherPants - There is '''nothing'' wrong with liking Chaos. Remember, though - that's the side that, while wanting to preserve Humanity, was the one to put the [[MoralEventHorizon Z-Class]] ApocalypseHow in the table. Just saying.

to:

* DracoInLeatherPants - There is '''nothing'' ''nothing'' wrong with liking Chaos. Remember, though - that's the side that, while wanting to preserve Humanity, was the one to put the [[MoralEventHorizon Z-Class]] ApocalypseHow in the table. Just saying.
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None

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* DracoInLeatherPants - There is '''nothing'' wrong with liking Chaos. Remember, though - that's the side that, while wanting to preserve Humanity, was the one to put the [[MoralEventHorizon Z-Class]] ApocalypseHow in the table. Just saying.
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*** Maybe too many people hating and killing in its name? Worse: believing that they do good and what they feel is love? This world runs on GodsNeedPrayerBadly. -> HumansAreBastards.
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Placing Older Than They Think on this page would imply that Pokemon came before Shin Megami Tensei. That may be true in the US, but Megami Tensei was released for the Famicom in 1987, nine years before Pokemon Red and Green hit Japanese shelves.


* OlderThanTheyThink - ''{{Pokemon}}'': Shin Megami Tensei without the demons or apocalypses.
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* HoYay - Meet Persona. Hell, meet ''Nocturne''. If it's MegaTen, there's porn of it. Usually in this variety.
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* CrowningMusicOfAwesome - [[http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/CrowningMusic/ShinMegamiTensei Here]].

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* CrowningMusicOfAwesome - [[http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/CrowningMusic/ShinMegamiTensei [[AwesomeMusic/ShinMegamiTensei Here]].
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** Even worse. According to Christianity, God's vary nature is ''love itself''. What in the name of everything holy could possibly have corrupted ''love incarnate''?

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** Even worse. According to Christianity, God's vary very nature is ''love itself''. What in the name of everything holy could possibly have corrupted ''love incarnate''?
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** Even worse. According to Christianity, God's vary nature is ''love itself''. What in the name of everything holy could possibly have corrupted ''love incarnate''?
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* BrokenBase

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* BrokenBaseBrokenBase - Alignments. Game of choice. There's a ''lot'' to argue over.



* CrowningMusicOfAwesome - [[http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/AwesomeMusic/ShinMegamiTensei Here]].

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* CrowningMusicOfAwesome - [[http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/AwesomeMusic/ShinMegamiTensei php/CrowningMusic/ShinMegamiTensei Here]].
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* CrowningMusicOfAwesome - [[http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/CrowningMusic/ShinMegamiTensei Here]].

to:

* CrowningMusicOfAwesome - [[http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/CrowningMusic/ShinMegamiTensei php/AwesomeMusic/ShinMegamiTensei Here]].
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* TheScrappy: A LOT of fans hate whoever is on the side of Law in each game that has a Law-Neutral-Chaos axis, such as the Messians in ''ShinMegamiTenseiI'' and ''[[ShinMegamiTenseiII II]]'', Amane in ''DevilSurvivor'', and [[spoiler:Zelenin and the Three Wise Men]] in ''StrangeJourney''. You'll see a lot of people rooting for Neutral and Chaos, and rarely anyone who likes Law.

to:

* TheScrappy: A LOT of fans hate whoever is on the side of Law in each game that has a Law-Neutral-Chaos axis, such as the Messians in ''ShinMegamiTenseiI'' and ''[[ShinMegamiTenseiII II]]'', Amane in ''DevilSurvivor'', and [[spoiler:Zelenin and the Three Wise Men]] in ''StrangeJourney''. You'll see a lot of people rooting for Neutral and Chaos, and rarely anyone who likes Law. For that matter, [[InternetBackdraft forget about saying that you like Law.]]
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None

Added DiffLines:

* FridgeHorror: It's [[WordOfGod been explained]] that God is not the source of all evil in the series, and that something in the Universe is causing God to be Evil. Okay, um, what could be ''so'' ''evil'' that it makes God (y'know, the guy who made ''everything'') evil?
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* BrokenBase
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* TheScrappy: A LOT of fans hate whoever is on the side of Law, such as the Messians in ''ShinMegamiTenseiI'' and ''[[ShinMegamiTenseiII II]]'', Amane in ''DevilSurvivor'', and [[spoiler:Zelenin and the Three Wise Men]] in ''StrangeJourney''. You'll see a lot of people rooting for Neutral and Chaos, and rarely anyone who likes Law.

to:

* TheScrappy: A LOT of fans hate whoever is on the side of Law, Law in each game that has a Law-Neutral-Chaos axis, such as the Messians in ''ShinMegamiTenseiI'' and ''[[ShinMegamiTenseiII II]]'', Amane in ''DevilSurvivor'', and [[spoiler:Zelenin and the Three Wise Men]] in ''StrangeJourney''. You'll see a lot of people rooting for Neutral and Chaos, and rarely anyone who likes Law.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None

Added DiffLines:

* TheScrappy: A LOT of fans hate whoever is on the side of Law, such as the Messians in ''ShinMegamiTenseiI'' and ''[[ShinMegamiTenseiII II]]'', Amane in ''DevilSurvivor'', and [[spoiler:Zelenin and the Three Wise Men]] in ''StrangeJourney''. You'll see a lot of people rooting for Neutral and Chaos, and rarely anyone who likes Law.
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None

Added DiffLines:

** ''ShinMegamiTenseiIIINocturne'' was not the first game released with the ShinMegamiTensei supertitle in the west. The largely forgotten Demi Kids games also had it (in small text) and predate Nocturne's release in the west by a year.
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Added DiffLines:

** Many speculate that the only reason many of the games--even the less violent ones such as ''{{Persona 3}}'' and ''[[{{Persona4}} 4]]'' have M-ratings in the United States is because of [[GagPenis Mara]], who is absent in ''DevilSurvivor'', one of the few games in the franchise to carry a T-rating.
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None

Added DiffLines:

*** Both of those series had different character designers for the human characters, while keeping Kazuma Kaneko's demon/persona designs. Kaneko is responsible for the human character designs in all the main series Shin Megami Tensei games, as well as DDS and the Raidou games.
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* UncannyValley - Part of the series' aesthetic. While it remains distinctly anime, the characters tend to share the same grayish skin color and nearly all share the distinctive eye design.
** This was noticeably absent in DevilSurvivor and the later installments of the Persona series, both of which used a more animesque, cartoony style, that severely contrasted with all the HighOctaneNightmareFuel of the game.

to:

* UncannyValley - Part of the series' aesthetic. While it remains distinctly anime, {{manga}}, the characters tend to share the same grayish skin color and nearly all share the distinctive eye design.
** This was noticeably absent in DevilSurvivor and the later installments of the Persona series, both of which used a more animesque, manga, cartoony style, that severely contrasted with all the HighOctaneNightmareFuel of the game.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None

Added DiffLines:

* OlderThanTheyThink - ''{{Pokemon}}'': Shin Megami Tensei without the demons or apocalypses.
* ParanoiaFuel: An integral part of many of the {{Persona}} games.


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* SuperlativeDubbing - Always a bit subjective, but with both of the ''Digital Devil Saga'' games, ''Persona 3'' and ''Persona 4'' getting noted in ''major reviews'' for having excellent voicework, the franchise is beginning to pick up something of a reputation for this.
** This is so prominent for Atlus USA that the release of the ''Persona 1'' remake had full voice in all cutscenes when the Japanese release only had text, seemingly ''because'' people have come to expect excellent voicework from the franchise.
* ThatOneAttack: Any spell with the "Megido-" prefix. It must mean [[NintendoHard "fuck your life"]] in some other language.
** [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mount_Megiddo In a way, it does.]] That series of spells is named for the mountain where Armageddon will supposedly be fought.
** This extends to any Almighty attack, really (the Megido are the main spells but not the only ones).
** ''Devil Survivor'' takes it UpToEleven by adding the -dyne suffix. As if Megidolaon wasn't bad enough, [[spoiler: BonusBoss Lucifer]] can drop Megidoladyne on the ''entire map''. And did I mention that it gets 50% more powerful with each hit?
*** Then others like Strange Journey throws fuel on the fire by planting new spells in that are of the same type. Thought Megidolaon was awesome? Add in Big Bang which is even more powerful by a good 200 points. Then we have Babylon Goblet which has a chance to charm. Good luck recovering from that. And god forbid you get the eponymous JIHAD because not only is it one of the strongest spells in the game, but it also LOWERS THEIR STATS TOO. But to be fair while you have those, you can bet your opponent has even better shit than you.
* ThatOneBoss: [[WakeUpCallBoss Matador]] and Mot in Nocturne, the golden metal trio in Persona 2, Intrepid Knight in Persona 3, anyone in Digital Devil Saga with the second boss theme and probably a few more. Of course, if you don't use all of the options that are available to you like ailment inducing ammo, buff and debuff skills, buff and debuff cancelling skill, healing skills, elemental and ailments immunity to at least some of the bosses attacks, then expect lot of bosses to suddenly turn into NintendoHard ThatOneBoss. You know what, let's just tell you we have [[ThatOneBoss/{{Atlus}} ThatOneBoss/Atlus]] (where Shin Megami Tensei makes up most of the article) and leave it at that.
* UncannyValley - Part of the series' aesthetic. While it remains distinctly anime, the characters tend to share the same grayish skin color and nearly all share the distinctive eye design.
** This was noticeably absent in DevilSurvivor and the later installments of the Persona series, both of which used a more animesque, cartoony style, that severely contrasted with all the HighOctaneNightmareFuel of the game.

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