History YMMV / RichardWagner

* FandomEnragingMisconception: Most Wagner fans will get salty if he's referred to as a "[[ThoseWackyNazis Nazi composer]]." For reference, the Nazi Party was formed around 1920; Wagner died in 1883. During his lifetime, Wagner was involved with left-wing and anarchist political groups, making it extremely unlikely that he would have approved of the Nazis' authoritarian views. Then again, there's a lot less defense for his infamously vicious prose articles which supported antisemitism and German nationalism, to the point that they were {{Quote Mine}}d for Nazi propaganda, giving him at very best extremely UnfortunateImplications on that score. Either way, the point is moot since Wagner had been ''dead for several decades'' before the Nazis ever existed, giving him no chance to comment on them.

* FandomEnragingMisconception: Most Wagner fans will get salty if he's referred to as a "[[ThoseWackyNazis Nazi composer]]." For reference, the Nazi Party was formed around 1920; Wagner died in 1883. Wagner was involved with some left-wing and anarchist political groups, making it extremely unlikely that he would have approved of the Nazis' authoritarian views even if he hadn't been ''dead for almost 40 years before they existed.'' Some Nazis (yes, including [[UsefulNotes/AdolfHitler the boss]]) were professed fans of Wagner, but that's a clear case of HitlerAteSugar.[[note]]The Nazis were known to QuoteMine Wagner in their propaganda, however, which does exacerbate the UnfortunateImplications of his German nationalism and anti-semitism. In the interests of avoiding FlameBait, [[Administrivia/RuleOfCautiousEditingJudgment we should probably leave it there]].[[/note]]

* FandomBerserkButton: Most Wagner fans will get salty if he's referred to as a "[[ThoseWackyNazis Nazi composer]]." For reference, the Nazi Party was formed around 1920; Wagner died in 1883. Wagner was involved with some left-wing and anarchist political groups, making it extremely unlikely that he would have approved of the Nazis' authoritarian views even if he hadn't been ''dead for almost 40 years before they existed.'' Some Nazis (yes, including [[UsefulNotes/AdolfHitler the boss]]) were professed fans of Wagner, but that's a clear case of HitlerAteSugar.[[note]]The Nazis were known to QuoteMine Wagner in their propaganda, however, which does exacerbate the UnfortunateImplications of his German nationalism and anti-semitism. In the interests of avoiding FlameBait, [[Administrivia/RuleOfCautiousEditingJudgment we should probably leave it there]].[[/note]]

* ItsPopularNowItSucks / VindicatedByHistory: Wagner's popularity dismayed many of his non-fans in the 1800s, some of them decrying the ruin of society. In UsefulNotes/JulesVerne's Literature/ParisInTheTwentiethCentury, a bitter composer describes Wagner as one of the worst things ever to happen to music:

* FandomBerserkButton: Most Wagner fans will get salty if he's referred to as a "[[ThoseWackyNazis Nazi composer]]." For reference, the Nazi Party was formed around 1920; Wagner died in 1883. Wagner was involved with some left-wing and anarchist political groups, making it extremely unlikely that he would have approved of the Nazis' authoritarian views even if he hadn't been ''dead for almost 40 years before they existed.'' Some Nazis (yes, including [[UsefulNotes/AdolfHitler the boss]]) were professed fans of Wagner, but that's a clear case of HitlerAteSugar.[[note]]The Nazis were known to QuoteMine Wagner in their propaganda, however, which does exacerbate the UnfortunateImplications of his German nationalism and anti-semitism. In the interests of avoiding FlameBait, [[RuleOfCautiousEditingJudgment we should probably leave it there]].[[/note]]

* ItsPopularNowItSucks / VindicatedByHistory: Wagner's popularity [[LoveItOrHateIt dismayed many of his non-fans]] in the 1800s, some of them decrying the ruin of society. In UsefulNotes/JulesVerne's Literature/ParisInTheTwentiethCentury, a bitter composer describes Wagner as one of the worst things ever to happen to music:

* ItsPopularNowItSucks / VindicatedByHistory: Wagner was essentially the 1800's answer to Music/{{Skrillex}}, in quite a few senses. In UsefulNotes/JulesVerne's Literature/ParisInTheTwentiethCentury, a bitter composer describes Wagner as one of the worst things ever to happen to music:

** Much to the horror of the "real music fans" (such as, apparently, Verne) this new artist's sound fused wild, overwhelmingly powerful overtures, interruptions of the melodic line with chaotic passages pitting the sections of the orchestra and melody against one another, occasional intentionally grating atonal chords, intense focus on the bass section, interwoven repeating musical phrases, and a dark, angsty sound. Worse, other composers embraced this sound, and it became ''hugely popular''. [[{{Dubstep}} Does any of this sound familiar?]]

-->... in the last century [the 1800s], a certain Richard Wagner, a sort of messiah who has been insufficiently crucified, invented the [[CapitalLettersAreMagic Music of the Future]] and we're still enduring it; in his day, melody was already being suppressed, and he decided it was appropriate to get rid of harmony as well -- and the house has remained empty ever since. ''[Verne then [[AuthorTract spends the rest of the chapter]] describing the musical crimes of the Church of the Wagnerians, and how music was clearly RuinedForever by this [[SocietyMarchesOn hard modern sound]].]''

* MusicToInvadePolandTo: Wagner is often used as background music for scenes of war-related activities (including UsefulNotes/WorldWarII). This is partly because ThoseWackyNazis actually were fond of Wagner's music and occasionally used it in their propaganda, which has given it UnfortunateImplications in some circles to this day. Since Wagner himself died long before the Nazis rose to power, this may be largely a case of HitlerAteSugar; however, it's complicated by the fact that he is also on record with some nasty anti-semitic statements of his own. On the other hand, complicating things still further are the fact that Wagner was also a left-leaning socialist for much of his life, befriended Russian anarchist Mikhail Bakhunin and participated in the Dresden May Uprising (which got him exiled by the Saxon government), and expressed a strong distrust of power in his works (along with a belief in ThePowerOfLove). In other words, much like the case of his erstwhile friend FriedrichNietzsche, it is quite likely that his untimely death resulted in his appropriation by people of whom he is unlikely to have approved in the slightest.

* MisattributedSong: No, Wagner did ''not'' write any part of ''Carmina Burana''.
** Nor did he write "In the Hall of the Mountain King."

* SeinfeldIsUnfunny: Wagner's „''Musik der Zukunft''‟ ("The Music of the Future") was considered daringly, even outrageously, innovative in his own time; but he became so influential that his music is now reckoned old-fashioned and even stereotypical by some.

--> ''... in the last century [[note]]referring to Jules Verne's own time period[[/note]], a certain Richard Wagner, a sort of messiah who has been insufficiently crucified, invented the [[CapitalLettersAreMagic Music of the Future]] and we're still enduring it; in his day, melody was already being suppressed, and he decided it was appropriate to get rid of harmony as well- and the house has remained empty ever since.'' [Verne then [[AuthorTract spends the rest of the chapter]] describing the musical crimes of the Church of the Wagnerians, and how music was clearly RuinedForever by this [[SocietyMarchesOn hard modern sound]].]
:: Much to the horror of the "real music fans" (such as, apparently, Verne) this new artist's sound fused wild, overwhelmingly powerful overtures, interruptions of the melodic line with chaotic passages pitting the sections of the orchestra and melody against one another, occasional intentionally grating atonal chords, intense focus on the bass section, interwoven repeating musical phrases, and a dark, angsty sound. Worse, other composers embraced this sound, and it became ''hugely popular''. [[{{Dubstep}} Does any of this sound familiar?]]

* ItsPopularNowItSucks / VindicatedByHistory: Wagner was essentially the 1800's answer to Music/{{Skrillex}}, in quite a few senses. In UsefulNotes/JulesVerne's ParisInTheTwentiethCentury, a bitter composer describes Wagner as one of the worst things ever to happen to music:

* MusicToInvadePolandTo: Wagner is often used as background music for scenes of war-related activities (including WorldWarII). This is partly because ThoseWackyNazis actually were fond of Wagner's music and occasionally used it in their propaganda, which has given it UnfortunateImplications in some circles to this day. Since Wagner himself died long before the Nazis rose to power, this may be largely a case of HitlerAteSugar; however, it's complicated by the fact that he is also on record with some nasty anti-semitic statements of his own. On the other hand, complicating things still further are the fact that Wagner was also a left-leaning socialist for much of his life, befriended Russian anarchist Mikhail Bakhunin and participated in the Dresden May Uprising (which got him exiled by the Saxon government), and expressed a strong distrust of power in his works (along with a belief in ThePowerOfLove). In other words, much like the case of his erstwhile friend FriedrichNietzsche, it is quite likely that his untimely death resulted in his appropriation by people of whom he is unlikely to have approved in the slightest.

* LoveItOrHateIt: Even to this day, Wagner's music is some of the most polarizing ever written. There's a saying that, in polite company, one should "never discuss politics, religion, or Wagner."

* UnfortunateImplications: Owing to Wagner's [[DudeNotFunny antisemitic views]] as expressed in a few of his published articles, some critics interpret unpleasant characters in his operas (such as Mime in ''The Ring'' or Beckmesser in ''Meistersinger'') as reflecting [[GreedyJew negative Jewish stereotypes]]. However, there's no documentary evidence that Wagner intentionally wrote any characters in his operas to be Jewish, and most fans prefer to distance his angry prose from his more considered creative achievements.

:: Much to the horror of the "real music fans" (such as, apparently, Verne) this new artist's sound fused wild, overwhelmingly powerful overtures, interruptions of the melodic line with chaotic passages pitting the sections of the orchestra and melody against one another, occasional intentionally grating atonal chords, intense focus on the bass section, interwoven repeating musical phrases, and a dark, angsty sound. Worse, other composers embraced this sound, and it became ''hugely popular''. [[{{Dubstep}} Does any of this sound familiar?]]

--> ''...in the last century [[note]]referring to Jules Verne's own time period[[/note]], a certain Richard Wagner, a sort of messiah who has been insufficiently crucified, invented the [[CapitalLettersAreMagic Music of the Future]] and we're still enduring it; in his day, melody was already being suppressed, and he decided it was appropriate to get rid of harmony as well- and the house has remained empty ever since.'' [Verne then [[AuthorTract spends the rest of the chapter]] describing the musical crimes of the Church of the Wagnerians, and how music was clearly RuinedForever by this [[SocietyMarchesOn hard modern sound]].]

* ItsPopularNowItSucks[=/=]VindicatedByHistory: Wagner was essentially the 1800's answer to {{Skrillex}}, in quite a few senses. In JulesVerne's ParisInTheTwentiethCentury, a bitter composer describes Wagner as one of the worst things ever to happen to music:

* AmericansHateTingle: See BannedInChina on the main page.

* EndingFatigue: Wagner has been accused of it..

* TheScrappy[=/=]ItsPopularNowItSucks[=/=]VindicatedByHistory: Wagner was essentially the 1800's answer to {{Skrillex}}, in quite a few senses. In JulesVerne's ParisInTheTwentiethCentury, a bitter composer describes Wagner as one of the worst things ever to happen to music:

* TheScrappy[=/=]ItsPopularNowItSucks[=/=]VindicatedByHistory: Wagner was essentially the 1800's answer to {{Skrillex}}, in quite a few senses. In JulesVerne's ParisInTheTwentiethCentury, an AuthorTract on music delivered by a bitter composer describes Wagner as one of the worst things ever to happen to music:
--> ...in the last century [[note]]referring to Jules Verne's own time period[[/note]], a certain Richard Wagner, a sort of messiah who has been insufficiently crucified, invented the [[CapitalLettersAreMagic Music of the Future]] and we're still enduring it; in his day, melody was already being suppressed, and he decided it was appropriate to get rid of harmony as well- and the house has remained empty ever since.
:: Much to the horror of the "real music fans" this artist's new sound fused wild, overwhelmingly powerful overtures, interruptions of the melodic line with chaotic passages pitting the sections of the orchestra and melody against one another, occasional intentionally grating atonal chords, intense focus on the bass section, interwoven repeating musical phrases, and a dark, angsty sound. Music was clearly RuinedForever. Worse, other composers embraced this sound, and it became ''hugely popular''. [[{{Dubstep}} Does any of this sound familiar?]]

** Wagner's ''leitmotif'' technique - that is, associating one musical idea with a particular character, item or feeling and repeating it whenever that/they recurred - was revolutionary at the time, but is standard practice in film music today. His writings also had a huge influence on the development of musical theater.

* MusicToInvadePolandTo: Wagner is often used as background music for scenes of war-related activities (including WorldWarII). This is partly because ThoseWackyNazis actually were fond of Wagner's music and occasionally used it in their propaganda, which has given it UnfortunateImplications in some circles to this day. Since Wagner himself died long before the Nazis rose to power, this may be largely a case of HitlerAteSugar; however, it's complicated by the fact that he is also on record with some nasty anti-semitic statements of his own.

* MusicToInvadePolandTo: Wagner is often used as background music for scenes of war-related activities (including WorldWarII).

* MisattributedSong: No, Wagner did ''not'' write any part of ''Carmina Burana''.

* MusicToInvadePolandTo: Wagner is often used as background music for scenes of Nazism-related activities.

* DesignatedHero: The fitness of several of Wagner's heroes to protagonisthood has been questioned. ("How ''could'' Elisabeth choose that whiner Heinrich over Wolfram?") Very Much [[YourMileageMayVary YMMV]] territory.
* EndingFatigue: Wagner has been accused of it by [[JerkAss some people]].