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* CriticalBacklash: While you can still find haters of this show, nowadays there is a non-insignificant portion of the fandom that argues that the hatred it receives is overblown, and while it does have some glaring flaws, it's not as bad as its haters say. It helps that recent entries such as ''[[Anime/MobileSuitGundamAGE AGE]]'' and ''[[Anime/GundamReconguistaInG Reconguista in G]]'' have also been severely criticized, with many arguing that the title of "Worst Gundam Show" that ''Destiny'' carried for so long should instead be given to either of those.
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* CriticalBacklash: CriticalBacklash:
** While you can still find haters of this show, nowadays there is a non-insignificant portion of the fandom that argues that the hatred it receives is overblown, and while it does have some glaring flaws, it's not as bad as its haters say. It helps that recent entries such as ''[[Anime/MobileSuitGundamAGE AGE]]'' and ''[[Anime/GundamReconguistaInG Reconguista in G]]'' have also been severely criticized, with many arguing that the title of "Worst Gundam Show" that ''Destiny'' carried for so long should instead be given to either ofthose.those.
** Shinn Asuka as a protaganist has also been subject to this. Back when the presence of the show was very common online, he was heavily hated to the point he was widely considered the worst Gundam protaganist (which does continue even to this day by older fans) to the point several detractors even ''refuse'' to acknowledge him as one. Nowadays, while his detractors can still be very vocal, several watchers have observed that a lot of the problems with Shinn (namely his FaceHeelTurn in the last third) were due to numerous factors out of his control (namely with how many people were manipulating him). Older arguements of Shinn "snapping out of it" and joining the heroes' side wouldn't make sense with how the narrative is presented. Many viewers also argue that Shinn becoming a villain makes him more interesting as an character instead of the general expectations. In fact, it's reached the point that the ''VideoGame/SuperRobotWarsZ'' version (who's a favorite of many fans and even Creator/KenichiSuzumura) actually misses the point of Shinn as a character (a sentiment shared by Fukuda).
** While you can still find haters of this show, nowadays there is a non-insignificant portion of the fandom that argues that the hatred it receives is overblown, and while it does have some glaring flaws, it's not as bad as its haters say. It helps that recent entries such as ''[[Anime/MobileSuitGundamAGE AGE]]'' and ''[[Anime/GundamReconguistaInG Reconguista in G]]'' have also been severely criticized, with many arguing that the title of "Worst Gundam Show" that ''Destiny'' carried for so long should instead be given to either of
** Shinn Asuka as a protaganist has also been subject to this. Back when the presence of the show was very common online, he was heavily hated to the point he was widely considered the worst Gundam protaganist (which does continue even to this day by older fans) to the point several detractors even ''refuse'' to acknowledge him as one. Nowadays, while his detractors can still be very vocal, several watchers have observed that a lot of the problems with Shinn (namely his FaceHeelTurn in the last third) were due to numerous factors out of his control (namely with how many people were manipulating him). Older arguements of Shinn "snapping out of it" and joining the heroes' side wouldn't make sense with how the narrative is presented. Many viewers also argue that Shinn becoming a villain makes him more interesting as an character instead of the general expectations. In fact, it's reached the point that the ''VideoGame/SuperRobotWarsZ'' version (who's a favorite of many fans and even Creator/KenichiSuzumura) actually misses the point of Shinn as a character (a sentiment shared by Fukuda).
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It needs saying, having rewatched this in full, but I don't feel like I did a decent enough job. Either way, going back it actually isn't so clear cut and dry as Kira detractors have made it out to be either way.
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** Relatedly, Kira's detractors frequently overplay how much the narrative puts him in the right and never doubting himself, which helped contribute to his [[FanNickname Jesus Yamato reputation]]. However, more often than not the show portrays Kira as making situations worse because he is often acting without all of the facts or with trying to help Cagalli fix her mistakes. And all of his actions cause problems because of his hero complex and Athrun even calls him out on it, which may be hypocritical but is still something Kira acknowledges as probably being very true. Kira never once acts like he knows better than anyone and is often show doubting himself even late into the series because he doesn't know if what he's doing is the right thing.
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** Ask in a forum who is the series' main character, and prepare for one of the longest discussions ever. People will keep repeating the names of Shinn, Athrun and Kira and rarely reach an agreement. It doesn't help that Athrun also happens to be the main narrator of the compilation movies and the character with the most screentime. [[note]]While Athrun is considered the true protagonist via WordOfGod, most official sources tend to have Shinn as the main protagonist with the Destiny being billed as the main Gundam. Kira is rarely officially billed as the main hero of ''SEED Destiny'', likely due to him already being the protagonist of ''SEED''. Cross-series ''Gundam'' games usually use him to represent ''SEED'' (often promoting with the Freedom instead of the Strike Freedom), while Shinn is the representative of ''SEED Destiny''. The ''VideoGame/SuperRobotWars'' series, famous for its FixFic elements, is fairly even about this, with Shinn being portrayed as the main character of the ''SEED Destiny'' cast in ''Z'' and ''L'', while Kira gets the lion's share of the focus in ''Scramble Commander 2'' and ''K''. ''V'' narratively treats them as equals, though there is a slight bit more focus on Shinn since [[Creator/KenichiSuzumura his Japanese voice actor]] returned for the game while [[Creator/SoichiroHoshi Kira's]] didn't. However, ''Scramble Commander 2'' isn't well known due to it being a GenreShift (RealTimeStrategy instead of TurnBasedStrategy), and ''K'' is one of the most widely despised game in the franchise thanks to ''various'' other issues (namely regarding its main protagonist Mist Rex), so its fixes to the ''Destiny'' plot and characters tend to be overshadowed in the fandom's eyes. Coupling that with Shinn's Japanese voice actor saying that the ''Z'' version of Shinn is his favorite, has led to Shinn being considered the de facto ''Destiny'' protag in the eyes of the ''Super Robot Wars'' fandom.[[/note]]
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** Ask in a forum who is the series' main character, and prepare for one of the longest discussions ever. People will keep repeating the names of Shinn, Athrun and Kira and rarely reach an agreement. It doesn't help that Athrun also happens to be the main narrator of the compilation movies and the character with the most screentime. [[note]]While Athrun is considered the true protagonist via WordOfGod, most official sources tend to have Shinn as the main protagonist with the Destiny being billed as the main Gundam. Kira is rarely officially billed as the main hero of ''SEED Destiny'', likely due to him already being the protagonist of ''SEED''. Cross-series ''Gundam'' games usually use him to represent ''SEED'' (often promoting with the Freedom instead of the Strike Freedom), while Shinn is the representative of ''SEED Destiny''. The ''VideoGame/SuperRobotWars'' series, famous for its FixFic elements, is fairly even about this, with Shinn being portrayed as the main character of the ''SEED Destiny'' cast in ''Z'' and ''L'', while Kira gets the lion's share of the focus in ''Scramble Commander 2'' and ''K''. ''V'' narratively treats them as equals, though there is a slight bit more focus on Shinn since [[Creator/KenichiSuzumura his Japanese voice actor]] returned for the game while [[Creator/SoichiroHoshi Kira's]] didn't. However, ''Scramble Commander 2'' isn't well known due to it being a GenreShift (RealTimeStrategy instead of TurnBasedStrategy), and ''K'' is one of the most widely despised game games in the franchise thanks to ''various'' other issues (namely regarding its main protagonist Mist Rex), so its fixes to the ''Destiny'' plot and characters tend to be overshadowed in the fandom's eyes. Coupling that with Shinn's Japanese voice actor saying that the ''Z'' version of Shinn is his favorite, has led to Shinn being considered the de facto ''Destiny'' protag in the eyes of the ''Super Robot Wars'' fandom.[[/note]]
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** If revenge is all you think about, then you are no better than the people who wronged you. Everyone has to end up losing their loved ones. Regardless, you have to keep moving forward. This is a twofold message as far as Shinn's character arc is concerned, being unable to process the trauma of his family's deaths. Having ended up enlisted as a soldier for ZAFT to oppose the Alliance's atrocities, the more he becomes consumed by rage and hatred, the more he ends up hurting people than he's supposed to protect. [[spoiler:Stella's death]] serves as the final straw for Shinn, and nearly killing Kira isn't helping his case either.
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** [[AsLongAsThereIsEvil Wars and conflicts exist in the world so long as evil lurks in the hearts of men]], but in the face of it, how you treat one another is entirely up to you and resolving conflicts through de-escalation and diplomacy. Related to the above, Durandal points out that mankind has and will always have the capacity for evil, and his Destiny Plan is designed to be humanity's salvation dedicated in eternal benevolence and order, [[spoiler:at the expense of robbing their ability to make decisions for themselves]]. During his standoff with Kira, if he were to be [[DontCreateAMartyr martyred]] the world will be once again condemned to darkness and chaos. Kira refutes that humans can change and understand each other, and he knows that he, nor everyone else [[spoiler:cannot eliminate evil from every heart or hatred from every mind]], all he can do is pass this wisdom to the next generation so they can learn from the mistakes of the past and that they might never be repeated again.
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** [[AsLongAsThereIsEvil Wars and conflicts exist in the world so long as evil lurks in the hearts of men]], but in the face of it, how you treat one another is entirely up to you and resolving conflicts through de-escalation and diplomacy. Related to the above, Durandal points out that mankind has and will always have the capacity for evil, and his Destiny Plan is designed to be humanity's salvation dedicated in eternal benevolence and order, [[spoiler:at the expense of robbing their ability to make decisions for themselves]]. During his standoff with Kira, if he were to be [[DontCreateAMartyr martyred]] martyred the world will be once again condemned to darkness and chaos. Kira refutes that humans can change and understand each other, and he knows that he, nor everyone else [[spoiler:cannot eliminate evil from every heart or hatred from every mind]], all he can do is pass this wisdom to the next generation so they can learn from the mistakes of the past and that they might never be repeated again.
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** Those who sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither. This one of the main reasons the Three Ships Alliance oppose Durandal's Destiny Plan, if Durandal wishes to usher forth a world without conflict through genetic determinism, [[spoiler:this also means robbing people of free will, and part of it is humanity's [[TheEvilsOfFreeWill capacity for evil]]]]. Also, the idea of a world without conflict [[spoiler:would mean the world might become a boring place to live and mankind is at the threat of stagnancy because of the absence of something to struggle against]].
** [[AsLongAsThereIsEvil Wars and conflicts exist in the world so long as evil lurks in the hearts of men]], but in the face of it, how you treat one another is entirely up to you and resolving conflicts through de-escalation and diplomacy. Related to the above, Durandal points out that mankind has and always have the capacity for evil. During his last standoff with Kira, if he were to be [[DontCreateAMartyr martyred]] the world will be once again condemned to darkness and chaos. Kira points out that humans can change and understand each other, and he knows that he, nor everyone else [[spoiler:cannot eliminate evil from every heart or hatred from every mind]]. He can pass this wisdom to the next generation and learn from the mistakes of the past so that they might not repeat it.
** [[AsLongAsThereIsEvil Wars and conflicts exist in the world so long as evil lurks in the hearts of men]], but in the face of it, how you treat one another is entirely up to you and resolving conflicts through de-escalation and diplomacy. Related to the above, Durandal points out that mankind has and always have the capacity for evil. During his last standoff with Kira, if he were to be [[DontCreateAMartyr martyred]] the world will be once again condemned to darkness and chaos. Kira points out that humans can change and understand each other, and he knows that he, nor everyone else [[spoiler:cannot eliminate evil from every heart or hatred from every mind]]. He can pass this wisdom to the next generation and learn from the mistakes of the past so that they might not repeat it.
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** Those who sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither. This one One of the main reasons the Three Ships Alliance oppose Durandal's Destiny Plan, if Durandal wishes to usher forth a world without conflict through genetic determinism, [[spoiler:this also means robbing people of free will, and part of it is humanity's [[TheEvilsOfFreeWill capacity for evil]]]]. Also, the idea of a world without conflict [[spoiler:would mean the world might become a boring place to live and mankind is at the threat of stagnancy because of the absence of something to struggle against]].
** [[AsLongAsThereIsEvil Wars and conflicts exist in the world so long as evil lurks in the hearts of men]], but in the face of it, how you treat one another is entirely up to you and resolving conflicts through de-escalation and diplomacy. Related to the above, Durandal points out that mankind has and will always have the capacity forevil. evil, and his Destiny Plan is designed to be humanity's salvation dedicated in eternal benevolence and order, [[spoiler:at the expense of robbing their ability to make decisions for themselves]]. During his last standoff with Kira, if he were to be [[DontCreateAMartyr martyred]] the world will be once again condemned to darkness and chaos. Kira points out refutes that humans can change and understand each other, and he knows that he, nor everyone else [[spoiler:cannot eliminate evil from every heart or hatred from every mind]]. He mind]], all he can do is pass this wisdom to the next generation and so they can learn from the mistakes of the past so and that they might not repeat it.never be repeated again.
** [[AsLongAsThereIsEvil Wars and conflicts exist in the world so long as evil lurks in the hearts of men]], but in the face of it, how you treat one another is entirely up to you and resolving conflicts through de-escalation and diplomacy. Related to the above, Durandal points out that mankind has and will always have the capacity for
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** [[AsLongThereIsEvil Wars and conflicts exist in the world so long as evil lurks in the hearts of men]], but in the face of it, how you treat one another is entirely up to you. Related to the above, Durandal points out that mankind has and always have the capacity for evil. During his last standoff with Kira, if he were to be [[DontCreateAMartyr martyred]] the world will be once again condemned to darkness and chaos. Kira points out that humans can change and understand each other, and he knows that he, nor everyone else [[spoiler:cannot eliminate evil from every heart or hatred from every mind]]. He can pass this wisdom to the next generation and learn from the mistakes of the past so that they might not repeat it.
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** [[AsLongThereIsEvil [[AsLongAsThereIsEvil Wars and conflicts exist in the world so long as evil lurks in the hearts of men]], but in the face of it, how you treat one another is entirely up to you.you and resolving conflicts through de-escalation and diplomacy. Related to the above, Durandal points out that mankind has and always have the capacity for evil. During his last standoff with Kira, if he were to be [[DontCreateAMartyr martyred]] the world will be once again condemned to darkness and chaos. Kira points out that humans can change and understand each other, and he knows that he, nor everyone else [[spoiler:cannot eliminate evil from every heart or hatred from every mind]]. He can pass this wisdom to the next generation and learn from the mistakes of the past so that they might not repeat it.
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* AccidentalAesop:
** Those who sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither. This one of the main reasons the Three Ships Alliance oppose Durandal's Destiny Plan, if Durandal wishes to usher forth a world without conflict through genetic determinism, [[spoiler:this also means robbing people of free will, and part of it is humanity's [[TheEvilsOfFreeWill capacity for evil]]]]. Also, the idea of a world without conflict [[spoiler:would mean the world might become a boring place to live and mankind is at the threat of stagnancy because of the absence of something to struggle against]].
** [[AsLongThereIsEvil Wars and conflicts exist in the world so long as evil lurks in the hearts of men]], but in the face of it, how you treat one another is entirely up to you. Related to the above, Durandal points out that mankind has and always have the capacity for evil. During his last standoff with Kira, if he were to be [[DontCreateAMartyr martyred]] the world will be once again condemned to darkness and chaos. Kira points out that humans can change and understand each other, and he knows that he, nor everyone else [[spoiler:cannot eliminate evil from every heart or hatred from every mind]]. He can pass this wisdom to the next generation and learn from the mistakes of the past so that they might not repeat it.
** Those who sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither. This one of the main reasons the Three Ships Alliance oppose Durandal's Destiny Plan, if Durandal wishes to usher forth a world without conflict through genetic determinism, [[spoiler:this also means robbing people of free will, and part of it is humanity's [[TheEvilsOfFreeWill capacity for evil]]]]. Also, the idea of a world without conflict [[spoiler:would mean the world might become a boring place to live and mankind is at the threat of stagnancy because of the absence of something to struggle against]].
** [[AsLongThereIsEvil Wars and conflicts exist in the world so long as evil lurks in the hearts of men]], but in the face of it, how you treat one another is entirely up to you. Related to the above, Durandal points out that mankind has and always have the capacity for evil. During his last standoff with Kira, if he were to be [[DontCreateAMartyr martyred]] the world will be once again condemned to darkness and chaos. Kira points out that humans can change and understand each other, and he knows that he, nor everyone else [[spoiler:cannot eliminate evil from every heart or hatred from every mind]]. He can pass this wisdom to the next generation and learn from the mistakes of the past so that they might not repeat it.
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* StrangledByTheRedString: Shinn's and Lunamaria's respective first loves are Stella and Athrun. Stella dies tragically, Athrun, along with Lunamaria's sister, Meyrin, defect, are shot down by Shinn and presumed to be dead. [[spoiler:They got better.]] Lunamaria and Shinn end up together but due to the way it was handled, they are widely believed to have been this. The Special Edition is a little better about this.
** And now that their voice actors Creator/KenichiSuzumura and Creator/MaayaSakamoto are married, this can now be seen as ''both'' {{Hilarious|InHindsight}} and HeartwarmingInHindsight.
** And now that their voice actors Creator/KenichiSuzumura and Creator/MaayaSakamoto are married, this can now be seen as ''both'' {{Hilarious|InHindsight}} and HeartwarmingInHindsight.
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* StrangledByTheRedString: StrangledByTheRedString:
** Shinn's and Lunamaria's respective first loves are Stella and Athrun. Stella dies tragically, Athrun, along with Lunamaria's sister, Meyrin, defect, are shot down by Shinn and presumed to be dead. [[spoiler:They got better.]] Lunamaria and Shinn end up together but due to the way it was handled, they are widely believed to have been this. The Special Edition is a little better aboutthis.
** Andthis. (And now that their voice actors Creator/KenichiSuzumura and Creator/MaayaSakamoto are married, this can now be seen as ''both'' {{Hilarious|InHindsight}} and HeartwarmingInHindsight.)
** Talia and Chairman Durandal have a DestructiveRomance with virtually no affection or love demonstrated between them at all, yet she's portrayed in his mind and in the opening as "fated to be with him" to the point [[spoiler:she abruptly decides to commit suicide when she's not the one who fatally wounds him]].
** Shinn's and Lunamaria's respective first loves are Stella and Athrun. Stella dies tragically, Athrun, along with Lunamaria's sister, Meyrin, defect, are shot down by Shinn and presumed to be dead. [[spoiler:They got better.]] Lunamaria and Shinn end up together but due to the way it was handled, they are widely believed to have been this. The Special Edition is a little better about
** And
** Talia and Chairman Durandal have a DestructiveRomance with virtually no affection or love demonstrated between them at all, yet she's portrayed in his mind and in the opening as "fated to be with him" to the point [[spoiler:she abruptly decides to commit suicide when she's not the one who fatally wounds him]].
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* TheyWastedAPerfectlyGoodCharacter: Heine Westenfluss, the first proper FAITH member we are introduced to and an effective {{Foil}} to Athrun, [[spoiler:dies in his second onscreen battle (''only'' onscreen battle if watching the original airing)]] without getting the chance to properly show his [[AcePilot credentials]] or much of his personality.
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* TheyWastedAPerfectlyGoodCharacter: TheyWastedAPerfectlyGoodCharacter:
** Heine Westenfluss, the first proper FAITH member we are introduced to and an effective {{Foil}} to Athrun, [[spoiler:dies in his second onscreen battle (''only'' onscreen battle if watching the original airing)]] without getting the chance to properly show his [[AcePilot credentials]] or much of hispersonality.personality; however, Heine was a DeadStarWalking.
** Talia Gladys and Arthur Trine. They were positioned to be the Murrue and Natarle/Mu of the sequel, with strong, interesting personalities of their own, however due to the increased cast size and writing problems of the show's second half, they stay OutOfFocus, with silent scenes rather than any pivotal moments, and are mostly remembered for Arthur's comedic gags. Talia could have done more [[spoiler:before running off to die at the end]], or perhaps had a storyline that led to a different, less abrupt end, and Arthur certainly could have done something rather than simply being TheCassandra.
** Heine Westenfluss, the first proper FAITH member we are introduced to and an effective {{Foil}} to Athrun, [[spoiler:dies in his second onscreen battle (''only'' onscreen battle if watching the original airing)]] without getting the chance to properly show his [[AcePilot credentials]] or much of his
** Talia Gladys and Arthur Trine. They were positioned to be the Murrue and Natarle/Mu of the sequel, with strong, interesting personalities of their own, however due to the increased cast size and writing problems of the show's second half, they stay OutOfFocus, with silent scenes rather than any pivotal moments, and are mostly remembered for Arthur's comedic gags. Talia could have done more [[spoiler:before running off to die at the end]], or perhaps had a storyline that led to a different, less abrupt end, and Arthur certainly could have done something rather than simply being TheCassandra.
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** Ask in a forum who is the series' main character and you prepare for one of the longest discussions ever. People will keep repeating the names of Shinn, Athrun and Kira and rarely reach an agreement. It doesn't help that Athrun also happens to be the main narrator of the compilation movies and the character with the most screentime. [[note]]While Athrun is considered the true protagonist via WordOfGod, most official sources tend to have Shinn as the main protagonist with the Destiny being billed as the main Gundam. Kira is rarely officially billed as the main hero of ''SEED Destiny'', likely due to him already being the protagonist of ''SEED''. Cross-series ''Gundam'' games usually use him to represent ''SEED'' (often promoting with the Freedom instead of the Strike Freedom), while Shinn is the representative of ''SEED Destiny''. The ''VideoGame/SuperRobotWars'' series, famous for its FixFic elements, is fairly even about this, with Shinn being portrayed as the main character of the ''SEED Destiny'' cast in ''Z'' and ''L'', while Kira gets the lion's share of the focus in ''Scramble Commander 2'' and ''K''. ''V'' narratively treats them as equals, though there is a slight bit more focus on Shinn since his seiyuu returned for the game while Kira's didn't. However, ''Scramble Commander 2'' isn't well known due to it being a GenreShift (RealTimeStrategy instead of TurnBasedStrategy), and ''K'' is one of the most widely despised game in the franchise thanks to ''various'' other issues (namely regarding its main protagonist Mist Rex), so its fixes to the ''Destiny'' plot and characters tend to be overshadowed in the fandom's eyes. Coupling that with Shinn's seiyuu saying that the ''Z'' version of Shinn is his favorite, has led to Shinn being considered the del facto ''Destiny'' protag in the eyes of the ''Super Robot Wars'' fandom.[[/note]]
to:
** Ask in a forum who is the series' main character character, and you prepare for one of the longest discussions ever. People will keep repeating the names of Shinn, Athrun and Kira and rarely reach an agreement. It doesn't help that Athrun also happens to be the main narrator of the compilation movies and the character with the most screentime. [[note]]While Athrun is considered the true protagonist via WordOfGod, most official sources tend to have Shinn as the main protagonist with the Destiny being billed as the main Gundam. Kira is rarely officially billed as the main hero of ''SEED Destiny'', likely due to him already being the protagonist of ''SEED''. Cross-series ''Gundam'' games usually use him to represent ''SEED'' (often promoting with the Freedom instead of the Strike Freedom), while Shinn is the representative of ''SEED Destiny''. The ''VideoGame/SuperRobotWars'' series, famous for its FixFic elements, is fairly even about this, with Shinn being portrayed as the main character of the ''SEED Destiny'' cast in ''Z'' and ''L'', while Kira gets the lion's share of the focus in ''Scramble Commander 2'' and ''K''. ''V'' narratively treats them as equals, though there is a slight bit more focus on Shinn since [[Creator/KenichiSuzumura his seiyuu Japanese voice actor]] returned for the game while Kira's [[Creator/SoichiroHoshi Kira's]] didn't. However, ''Scramble Commander 2'' isn't well known due to it being a GenreShift (RealTimeStrategy instead of TurnBasedStrategy), and ''K'' is one of the most widely despised game in the franchise thanks to ''various'' other issues (namely regarding its main protagonist Mist Rex), so its fixes to the ''Destiny'' plot and characters tend to be overshadowed in the fandom's eyes. Coupling that with Shinn's seiyuu Japanese voice actor saying that the ''Z'' version of Shinn is his favorite, has led to Shinn being considered the del de facto ''Destiny'' protag in the eyes of the ''Super Robot Wars'' fandom.[[/note]]
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Changed line(s) 26 (click to see context) from:
** Ask in a forum who is the series' main character and you prepare for one of the longest discussions ever. People will keep repeating the names of Shinn, Athrun and Kira and rarely reach an agreement. It doesn't help that Athrun also happens to be the main narrator of the compilation movies and the character with the most screentime. [[note]]While Athrun is considered the true protagonist via WordOfGod, most official sources tend to have Shinn as the main protagonist with the Destiny being billed as the main Gundam. Kira is rarely officially billed as the main hero of ''SEED Destiny'', likely due to him already being the protagonist of ''SEED''. Cross-series ''Gundam'' games usually use him to represent ''SEED'' (often promoting with the Freedom instead of the Strike Freedom), while Shinn is the representative of ''SEED Destiny''. The ''VideoGame/SuperRobotWars'' series, famous for its FixFic elements, is fairly even about this, with Shinn being portrayed as the main character of the ''SEED Destiny'' cast in ''Z'' and ''L'', while Kira gets the lion's share of the focus in ''Scramble Commander 2'' and ''K''. ''V'' narratively treats them as equals, though there is a slight bit more focus on Shinn since his seiyuu returned for the game while Kira's didn't. However, ''Scramble Commander 2'' isn't well known due to it being a GenreShift (RealTimeStrategy instead of TurnBasedStrategy), and ''K'' is one of the most widely despised game in the franchise thanks to ''various'' other issues (namely regarding its main protagonist Mist Rex), so its fixes to the ''Destiny'' plot and characters tend to be overshadowed in the fandom's eyes. Coupling that with Shinn's seiyuu saying that the ''Z'' version of Shinn is his favorite, has led to Shinn being considered the del facto ''Destiny'' in the eyes of the ''Super Robot Wars'' fandom.[[/note]]
to:
** Ask in a forum who is the series' main character and you prepare for one of the longest discussions ever. People will keep repeating the names of Shinn, Athrun and Kira and rarely reach an agreement. It doesn't help that Athrun also happens to be the main narrator of the compilation movies and the character with the most screentime. [[note]]While Athrun is considered the true protagonist via WordOfGod, most official sources tend to have Shinn as the main protagonist with the Destiny being billed as the main Gundam. Kira is rarely officially billed as the main hero of ''SEED Destiny'', likely due to him already being the protagonist of ''SEED''. Cross-series ''Gundam'' games usually use him to represent ''SEED'' (often promoting with the Freedom instead of the Strike Freedom), while Shinn is the representative of ''SEED Destiny''. The ''VideoGame/SuperRobotWars'' series, famous for its FixFic elements, is fairly even about this, with Shinn being portrayed as the main character of the ''SEED Destiny'' cast in ''Z'' and ''L'', while Kira gets the lion's share of the focus in ''Scramble Commander 2'' and ''K''. ''V'' narratively treats them as equals, though there is a slight bit more focus on Shinn since his seiyuu returned for the game while Kira's didn't. However, ''Scramble Commander 2'' isn't well known due to it being a GenreShift (RealTimeStrategy instead of TurnBasedStrategy), and ''K'' is one of the most widely despised game in the franchise thanks to ''various'' other issues (namely regarding its main protagonist Mist Rex), so its fixes to the ''Destiny'' plot and characters tend to be overshadowed in the fandom's eyes. Coupling that with Shinn's seiyuu saying that the ''Z'' version of Shinn is his favorite, has led to Shinn being considered the del facto ''Destiny'' protag in the eyes of the ''Super Robot Wars'' fandom.[[/note]]
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Changed line(s) 26 (click to see context) from:
** Ask in a forum who is the series' main character and you prepare for one of the longest discussions ever. People will keep repeating the names of Shinn, Athrun and Kira and rarely reach an agreement. It doesn't help that Athrun also happens to be the main narrator of the compilation movies and the character with the most screentime. [[note]]While Athrun is considered the true protagonist via WordOfGod, most official sources tend to have Shinn as the main protagonist with the Destiny being billed as the main Gundam. Kira is rarely officially billed as the main hero of ''SEED Destiny'', likely due to him already being the protagonist of ''SEED''. Cross-series ''Gundam'' games usually use him to represent ''SEED'' (often promoting with the Freedom instead of the Strike Freedom), while Shinn is the representative of ''SEED Destiny''. The ''VideoGame/SuperRobotWars'' series, famous for its FixFic elements, is fairly even about this, with Shinn being portrayed as the main character of the ''SEED Destiny'' cast in ''Z'' and ''L'', while Kira gets the lion's share of the focus in ''Scramble Commander 2'' and ''K''. ''V'' narratively treats them as equals, though there is a slight bit more focus on Shinn since his seiyuu returned for the game while Kira's didn't. However, ''Scramble Commander 2'' isn't well known due to it being a GenreShift (RealTimeStrategy instead of TurnBasedStrategy), and ''K'' is one of the most widely despised game in the franchise thanks to ''various'' other issues (namely regarding its main protagonist Mist Rex), so its fixes to the ''Destiny'' plot and characters tend to be overshadowed in the fandom's eyes.[[/note]]
to:
** Ask in a forum who is the series' main character and you prepare for one of the longest discussions ever. People will keep repeating the names of Shinn, Athrun and Kira and rarely reach an agreement. It doesn't help that Athrun also happens to be the main narrator of the compilation movies and the character with the most screentime. [[note]]While Athrun is considered the true protagonist via WordOfGod, most official sources tend to have Shinn as the main protagonist with the Destiny being billed as the main Gundam. Kira is rarely officially billed as the main hero of ''SEED Destiny'', likely due to him already being the protagonist of ''SEED''. Cross-series ''Gundam'' games usually use him to represent ''SEED'' (often promoting with the Freedom instead of the Strike Freedom), while Shinn is the representative of ''SEED Destiny''. The ''VideoGame/SuperRobotWars'' series, famous for its FixFic elements, is fairly even about this, with Shinn being portrayed as the main character of the ''SEED Destiny'' cast in ''Z'' and ''L'', while Kira gets the lion's share of the focus in ''Scramble Commander 2'' and ''K''. ''V'' narratively treats them as equals, though there is a slight bit more focus on Shinn since his seiyuu returned for the game while Kira's didn't. However, ''Scramble Commander 2'' isn't well known due to it being a GenreShift (RealTimeStrategy instead of TurnBasedStrategy), and ''K'' is one of the most widely despised game in the franchise thanks to ''various'' other issues (namely regarding its main protagonist Mist Rex), so its fixes to the ''Destiny'' plot and characters tend to be overshadowed in the fandom's eyes. Coupling that with Shinn's seiyuu saying that the ''Z'' version of Shinn is his favorite, has led to Shinn being considered the del facto ''Destiny'' in the eyes of the ''Super Robot Wars'' fandom.[[/note]]
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Reworded after reconsideration. While they are technically treated equal, Shinn is the one we follow more, and he has more events happen to him in the game, as we follow his development post SEED Destiny.
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Reworded after reconsideration. While they are technically treated equal, Shinn is the one we follow more, and he has more events happen to him in the game, as we follow his development post SEED Destiny.
Changed line(s) 26 (click to see context) from:
** Ask in a forum who is the series' main character and you prepare for one of the longest discussions ever. People will keep repeating the names of Shinn, Athrun and Kira and rarely reach an agreement. It doesn't help that Athrun also happens to be the main narrator of the compilation movies and the character with the most screentime. [[note]]While Athrun is considered the true protagonist via WordOfGod, most official sources tend to have Shinn as the main protagonist with the Destiny being billed as the main Gundam. Kira is rarely officially billed as the main hero of ''SEED Destiny'', likely due to him already being the protagonist of ''SEED''. Cross-series ''Gundam'' games usually use him to represent ''SEED'' (often promoting with the Freedom instead of the Strike Freedom), while Shinn is the representative of ''SEED Destiny''. The ''VideoGame/SuperRobotWars'' series, famous for its FixFic elements, is fairly even about this, with Shinn being portrayed as the main character of the ''SEED Destiny'' cast in ''Z'' and ''L'', while Kira gets the lion's share of the focus in ''Scramble Commander 2'' and ''K''. ''V'' tends to portray them as equals, though there is a slight bit more focus on Shinn when it comes to cross-series interactions since his seiyuu returned for the game while Kira's didn't. However, ''Scramble Commander 2'' isn't well known due to it being a GenreShift (RealTimeStrategy instead of TurnBasedStrategy), and ''K'' is one of the most widely despised game in the franchise thanks to ''various'' other issues (namely regarding its main protagonist Mist Rex), so its fixes to the ''Destiny'' plot and characters tend to be overshadowed in the fandom's eyes.[[/note]]
to:
** Ask in a forum who is the series' main character and you prepare for one of the longest discussions ever. People will keep repeating the names of Shinn, Athrun and Kira and rarely reach an agreement. It doesn't help that Athrun also happens to be the main narrator of the compilation movies and the character with the most screentime. [[note]]While Athrun is considered the true protagonist via WordOfGod, most official sources tend to have Shinn as the main protagonist with the Destiny being billed as the main Gundam. Kira is rarely officially billed as the main hero of ''SEED Destiny'', likely due to him already being the protagonist of ''SEED''. Cross-series ''Gundam'' games usually use him to represent ''SEED'' (often promoting with the Freedom instead of the Strike Freedom), while Shinn is the representative of ''SEED Destiny''. The ''VideoGame/SuperRobotWars'' series, famous for its FixFic elements, is fairly even about this, with Shinn being portrayed as the main character of the ''SEED Destiny'' cast in ''Z'' and ''L'', while Kira gets the lion's share of the focus in ''Scramble Commander 2'' and ''K''. ''V'' tends to portray narratively treats them as equals, though there is a slight bit more focus on Shinn when it comes to cross-series interactions since his seiyuu returned for the game while Kira's didn't. However, ''Scramble Commander 2'' isn't well known due to it being a GenreShift (RealTimeStrategy instead of TurnBasedStrategy), and ''K'' is one of the most widely despised game in the franchise thanks to ''various'' other issues (namely regarding its main protagonist Mist Rex), so its fixes to the ''Destiny'' plot and characters tend to be overshadowed in the fandom's eyes.[[/note]]
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None
Changed line(s) 26 (click to see context) from:
** Ask in a forum who is the series' main character and you prepare for one of the longest discussions ever. People will keep repeating the names of Shinn, Athrun and Kira and rarely reach an agreement. It doesn't help that Athrun also happens to be the main narrator of the compilation movies and the character with the most screentime. [[note]]While Athrun is considered the true protagonist via WordOfGod, most official sources tend to have Shinn as the main protagonist with the Destiny being billed as the main Gundam. Kira is rarely officially billed as the main hero of ''SEED Destiny'', likely due to him already being the protagonist of ''SEED''. Cross-series ''Gundam'' games usually use him to represent ''SEED'' (often promoting with the Freedom instead of the Strike Freedom), while Shinn is the representative of ''SEED Destiny''. The ''VideoGame/SuperRobotWars'' series, famous for its FixFic elements, is fairly even about this, with Shinn being portrayed as the main character of the ''SEED Destiny'' cast in ''Z'' and ''L'', while Kira gets the lion's share of the focus in ''Scramble Commander 2'' and ''K''. However, ''Scramble Commander 2'' isn't well known due to it being a GenreShift (RealTimeStrategy instead of TurnBasedStrategy), and ''K'' is one of the most widely despised game in the franchise thanks to ''various'' other issues (namely regarding its main protagonist Mist Rex), so its fixes to the ''Destiny'' plot and characters tend to be overshadowed in the fandom's eyes.[[/note]]
to:
** Ask in a forum who is the series' main character and you prepare for one of the longest discussions ever. People will keep repeating the names of Shinn, Athrun and Kira and rarely reach an agreement. It doesn't help that Athrun also happens to be the main narrator of the compilation movies and the character with the most screentime. [[note]]While Athrun is considered the true protagonist via WordOfGod, most official sources tend to have Shinn as the main protagonist with the Destiny being billed as the main Gundam. Kira is rarely officially billed as the main hero of ''SEED Destiny'', likely due to him already being the protagonist of ''SEED''. Cross-series ''Gundam'' games usually use him to represent ''SEED'' (often promoting with the Freedom instead of the Strike Freedom), while Shinn is the representative of ''SEED Destiny''. The ''VideoGame/SuperRobotWars'' series, famous for its FixFic elements, is fairly even about this, with Shinn being portrayed as the main character of the ''SEED Destiny'' cast in ''Z'' and ''L'', while Kira gets the lion's share of the focus in ''Scramble Commander 2'' and ''K''. ''V'' tends to portray them as equals, though there is a slight bit more focus on Shinn when it comes to cross-series interactions since his seiyuu returned for the game while Kira's didn't. However, ''Scramble Commander 2'' isn't well known due to it being a GenreShift (RealTimeStrategy instead of TurnBasedStrategy), and ''K'' is one of the most widely despised game in the franchise thanks to ''various'' other issues (namely regarding its main protagonist Mist Rex), so its fixes to the ''Destiny'' plot and characters tend to be overshadowed in the fandom's eyes.[[/note]]
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As far as I know, Scramble Commander 2 has not been called a spin-off by official sources. Acting as if it "doesn't count" just because it's a different gaming genre sounds unfair.
Changed line(s) 26 (click to see context) from:
** Ask in a forum who is the series' main character and you prepare for one of the longest discussions ever. People will keep repeating the names of Shinn, Athrun and Kira and rarely reach an agreement. It doesn't help that Athrun also happens to be the main narrator of the compilation movies and the character with the most screentime. [[note]]While Athrun is considered the true protagonist via WordOfGod, most official sources tend to have Shinn as the main protagonist with the Destiny being billed as the main Gundam. Kira is rarely officially billed as the main hero of ''SEED Destiny'', likely due to him already being the protagonist of ''SEED''. Cross-series ''Gundam'' games usually use him to represent ''SEED'' (often promoting with the Freedom instead of the Strike Freedom), while Shinn is the representative of ''SEED Destiny''. In ''VideoGame/SuperRobotWars'', Shinn is almost always portrayed as the main character of the ''SEED Destiny'' cast, getting most of the CharacterDevelopment thanks to FixFic elements. The primary exception among the main games is ''K'', with Kira getting the lion's share of the focus. Unfortunately, ''K'' is one of, if not ''the'', most widely despised game in the franchise thanks to ''various'' other issues (namely regarding its main protagonist Mist Rex), so its fixes to the ''Destiny'' plot and characters tend to be overshadowed in the fandom's eyes.[[/note]]
to:
** Ask in a forum who is the series' main character and you prepare for one of the longest discussions ever. People will keep repeating the names of Shinn, Athrun and Kira and rarely reach an agreement. It doesn't help that Athrun also happens to be the main narrator of the compilation movies and the character with the most screentime. [[note]]While Athrun is considered the true protagonist via WordOfGod, most official sources tend to have Shinn as the main protagonist with the Destiny being billed as the main Gundam. Kira is rarely officially billed as the main hero of ''SEED Destiny'', likely due to him already being the protagonist of ''SEED''. Cross-series ''Gundam'' games usually use him to represent ''SEED'' (often promoting with the Freedom instead of the Strike Freedom), while Shinn is the representative of ''SEED Destiny''. In ''VideoGame/SuperRobotWars'', The ''VideoGame/SuperRobotWars'' series, famous for its FixFic elements, is fairly even about this, with Shinn is almost always being portrayed as the main character of the ''SEED Destiny'' cast, getting most of the CharacterDevelopment thanks to FixFic elements. The primary exception among the main games is ''K'', with cast in ''Z'' and ''L'', while Kira getting gets the lion's share of the focus. Unfortunately, focus in ''Scramble Commander 2'' and ''K''. However, ''Scramble Commander 2'' isn't well known due to it being a GenreShift (RealTimeStrategy instead of TurnBasedStrategy), and ''K'' is one of, if not ''the'', of the most widely despised game in the franchise thanks to ''various'' other issues (namely regarding its main protagonist Mist Rex), so its fixes to the ''Destiny'' plot and characters tend to be overshadowed in the fandom's eyes.[[/note]]
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Reworded with fixed grammer. Also, SEED Destiny's debut game, Scramble Commander the 2nd, had Kira as the main, but it's more of a spinoff than a main game.
Changed line(s) 26 (click to see context) from:
** Ask in a forum who is the series' main character and you prepare for one of the longest discussions ever. People will keep repeating the names of Shinn, Athrun and Kira and rarely reach an agreement. It doesn't help that Athrun also happens to be the main narrator from the compilation movies and the one with the most screentime. [[note]]While Athrun is considered the true protagonist via WordOfGod, most official sources tend to have Shinn as the main protagonist with the Destiny being billed as the main Gundam. Kira is rarely officially billed as the main hero of ''Destiny'', likely due to the fact that he is the del-facto protagonist of ''SEED''. Cross-series ''Gundam'' games usually use him to represent ''SEED'' (often promoting with the Freedom instead of the Strike Freedom), while Shinn is the representative of ''Destiny''. In ''VideoGame/SuperRobotWars'', Shinn is near always the main character of ''Destiny'', getting most of the CharacterDevelopment thanks to FixFic elements. The only exception to this is ''K'', with Kira being more focused upon. Unfortunately, while it does fix several issues in the show, ''K'' one of, if not ''the'' most widely despised game in the franchise thanks many, ''many'' other issues (namely regarding the main protagonist), that completely overshadows everything.[[/note]]
to:
** Ask in a forum who is the series' main character and you prepare for one of the longest discussions ever. People will keep repeating the names of Shinn, Athrun and Kira and rarely reach an agreement. It doesn't help that Athrun also happens to be the main narrator from of the compilation movies and the one character with the most screentime. [[note]]While Athrun is considered the true protagonist via WordOfGod, most official sources tend to have Shinn as the main protagonist with the Destiny being billed as the main Gundam. Kira is rarely officially billed as the main hero of ''Destiny'', ''SEED Destiny'', likely due to him already being the fact that he is the del-facto protagonist of ''SEED''. Cross-series ''Gundam'' games usually use him to represent ''SEED'' (often promoting with the Freedom instead of the Strike Freedom), while Shinn is the representative of ''Destiny''. ''SEED Destiny''. In ''VideoGame/SuperRobotWars'', Shinn is near almost always portrayed as the main character of ''Destiny'', the ''SEED Destiny'' cast, getting most of the CharacterDevelopment thanks to FixFic elements. The only primary exception to this among the main games is ''K'', with Kira being more focused upon. getting the lion's share of the focus. Unfortunately, while it does fix several issues in the show, ''K'' is one of, if not ''the'' ''the'', most widely despised game in the franchise thanks many, ''many'' to ''various'' other issues (namely regarding the its main protagonist), that completely overshadows everything.protagonist Mist Rex), so its fixes to the ''Destiny'' plot and characters tend to be overshadowed in the fandom's eyes.[[/note]]
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I've seen a shit ton of fans on You Tube, Twitter and others that disproves them being "unpopular". Mixed is a much more accurate term.
Changed line(s) 14 (click to see context) from:
* AmericansHateTingle: Like in ''SEED'', Kira and Lacus are unpopular in the west even though they're among the most popular characters in Japan.
to:
* AmericansHateTingle: Like in ''SEED'', Kira and Lacus are unpopular have a more mixed reception in the west even though they're among the most popular characters in Japan.
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None
Changed line(s) 26 (click to see context) from:
** Ask in a forum who is the series' main character and you prepare for one of the longest discussions ever. People will keep repeating the names of Shinn, Athrun and Kira and rarely reach an agreement. It doesn't help that Athrun also happens to be the main narrator from the compilation movies and the one with the most screentime. [[note]]While Athrun is considered the true protagonist via WordOfGod, most official sources tend to have Shinn as the main protagonist with the Destiny being billed as the main Gundam. Kira is rarely officially billed as the main hero of ''Destiny'', likely due to the fact that he is the del-facto protagonist of ''SEED''. Cross-series ''Gundam'' games usually use him to represent ''SEED'' (often promoting with the Freedom instead of the Strike Freedom), while Shinn is the representative of ''Destiny''. In ''VideoGame/SuperRobotWars'', Shinn is near always the main character of ''Destiny'', getting most of the CharacterDevelopment thanks to FixFic elements. The only exception to this is ''K'', with Kira being more focused upon. Unfortunately, while it does fix several issues in the show, ''K'' one of, if not ''the'' most widely despised games in the franchise thanks many, ''many'' other issues (namely regarding the main protagonist), that completely overshadows everything.[[/note]]
to:
** Ask in a forum who is the series' main character and you prepare for one of the longest discussions ever. People will keep repeating the names of Shinn, Athrun and Kira and rarely reach an agreement. It doesn't help that Athrun also happens to be the main narrator from the compilation movies and the one with the most screentime. [[note]]While Athrun is considered the true protagonist via WordOfGod, most official sources tend to have Shinn as the main protagonist with the Destiny being billed as the main Gundam. Kira is rarely officially billed as the main hero of ''Destiny'', likely due to the fact that he is the del-facto protagonist of ''SEED''. Cross-series ''Gundam'' games usually use him to represent ''SEED'' (often promoting with the Freedom instead of the Strike Freedom), while Shinn is the representative of ''Destiny''. In ''VideoGame/SuperRobotWars'', Shinn is near always the main character of ''Destiny'', getting most of the CharacterDevelopment thanks to FixFic elements. The only exception to this is ''K'', with Kira being more focused upon. Unfortunately, while it does fix several issues in the show, ''K'' one of, if not ''the'' most widely despised games game in the franchise thanks many, ''many'' other issues (namely regarding the main protagonist), that completely overshadows everything.[[/note]]
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None
Changed line(s) 26 (click to see context) from:
** Ask in a forum who is the series' main character and you prepare for one of the longest discussions ever. People will keep repeating the names of Shinn, Athrun and Kira and rarely reach an agreement. It doesn't help that Athrun also happens to be the main narrator from the compilation movies and the one with the most screentime.
to:
** Ask in a forum who is the series' main character and you prepare for one of the longest discussions ever. People will keep repeating the names of Shinn, Athrun and Kira and rarely reach an agreement. It doesn't help that Athrun also happens to be the main narrator from the compilation movies and the one with the most screentime. [[note]]While Athrun is considered the true protagonist via WordOfGod, most official sources tend to have Shinn as the main protagonist with the Destiny being billed as the main Gundam. Kira is rarely officially billed as the main hero of ''Destiny'', likely due to the fact that he is the del-facto protagonist of ''SEED''. Cross-series ''Gundam'' games usually use him to represent ''SEED'' (often promoting with the Freedom instead of the Strike Freedom), while Shinn is the representative of ''Destiny''. In ''VideoGame/SuperRobotWars'', Shinn is near always the main character of ''Destiny'', getting most of the CharacterDevelopment thanks to FixFic elements. The only exception to this is ''K'', with Kira being more focused upon. Unfortunately, while it does fix several issues in the show, ''K'' one of, if not ''the'' most widely despised games in the franchise thanks many, ''many'' other issues (namely regarding the main protagonist), that completely overshadows everything.[[/note]]
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There is no indication that Athrun and Cagalli suffered Ship Sinking. In fact, various actual quotes on Twitter and in the audio commentary indicate very much that they are still together.
Changed line(s) 61 (click to see context) from:
* FanPreferredCouple: This show {{s|hipSinking}}ank ''both'' Dearka/Miriallia and Athrun/Cagalli. Considering that both of those pairings were quite popular among the fandom during the first show's run, [[DieForOurShip the reaction was predictable]]. The fandom's solution is to have them make up after the series ending and get back together again, if fanfic is any indication.
to:
* FanPreferredCouple: This show {{s|hipSinking}}ank ''both'' Dearka/Miriallia and Athrun/Cagalli. Dearka/Miriallia. Considering that both of those pairings were this pairing was actually quite popular among the fandom during the first show's run, [[DieForOurShip the reaction was predictable]]. The fandom's solution is to have them make up after the series ending and get back together again, if fanfic is any indication.
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Reworded for some specification.
Changed line(s) 35 (click to see context) from:
** Detractors tend to overblow how much focus Kira has on the show by saying he [[SpotlightStealingSquad becomes the main character]] the moment the Freedom Gundam returns. However this isn't really the case, as Shinn still gets generally much more focus as it shifts perspectives between them. It's not until the final arc that Kira really takes the main character role again, and it doesn't even really last for the entire final episode, as Shinn becomes the POV character again after the final battle.
to:
** Detractors Some detractors tend to overblow exaggerate how much focus Kira has on gets during the show by saying he [[SpotlightStealingSquad becomes the main character]] the moment the Freedom Gundam returns. However However, this isn't really the case, as Shinn still gets generally much more focus as it shifts perspectives between them. It's not until the final arc that Kira really takes the main character role again, with the credits listing him first and it doesn't even really last for the entire final episode, as Shinn becomes third. And even then, the POV character again after extended ending first shown in ''Final Plus'' puts the final battle.focus on Shinn once again.
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None
Added DiffLines:
** Detractors tend to overblow how much focus Kira has on the show by saying he [[SpotlightStealingSquad becomes the main character]] the moment the Freedom Gundam returns. However this isn't really the case, as Shinn still gets generally much more focus as it shifts perspectives between them. It's not until the final arc that Kira really takes the main character role again, and it doesn't even really last for the entire final episode, as Shinn becomes the POV character again after the final battle.
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insufficient context. ship sinking must refer to a specific scene intended to disprove a pairing per TRS https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/posts.php?discussion=1640420480098263500
Changed line(s) 27 (click to see context) from:
** Athrun/Cagalli's relationship is a huge source of debate, due to the fact that no one seems to know what is going on with the two by the end. Were they really subjected to ShipSinking or are they still together, just focusing on rebuilding Orb? The fact that fake interviews and rumors have muddied the water doesn't help this at all. That they are also always depicted together like the other two main couples in the series has also made it even more difficult to tell.
to:
** Athrun/Cagalli's relationship is a huge source of debate, due to the fact that no one seems to know what is going on with the two by the end. Were they really subjected to ShipSinking split up or are they still together, just focusing on rebuilding Orb? The fact that fake interviews and rumors have muddied the water doesn't help this at all. That they are also always depicted together like the other two main couples in the series has also made it even more difficult to tell.
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Djibril may be a Hate Sink, but he's just a really poor villain.
Changed line(s) 95 (click to see context) from:
* ReplacementScrappy: Shinn, who seems to have been an attempt at creating a [[DarkerAndEdgier darker, more conflicted]] Kira (or for those who see the Cosmic Era as a successor/retread of the original UC era, [[DarkerAndEdgier a darker, more unstable]] [[Anime/MobileSuitZetaGundam Kamille Bidan]]). It didn't work. It should be noted that Shinn was the third most popular male character in the CE franchise (behind Kira and Athrun), based on the then-current [=NewType=] and Gundam Ace character polls.
to:
* ReplacementScrappy: ReplacementScrappy:
** Shinn, who seems to have been an attempt at creating a [[DarkerAndEdgier darker, more conflicted]] Kira (or for those who see the Cosmic Era as a successor/retread of the original UC era, [[DarkerAndEdgier a darker, more unstable]] [[Anime/MobileSuitZetaGundam Kamille Bidan]]). It didn't work. It should be noted that Shinn was the third most popular male character in the CE franchise (behind Kira and Athrun), based on the then-current [=NewType=] and Gundam Ace characterpolls.polls.
** Lord Djibril is often seen as a much weaker villain compared to Murata Azrael. Unlike Azrael who was a highly effective antagonist for the last stage of ''SEED'' nicely countering Patrick Zala, Djibril is a one note glaringly incompetent moron who who only really serves to make Durandal and ZAFT look good. It ''really'' doesn't help that he keeps managing to escape his comeuppance for most of the series until the viewer is thoroughly sick of his stint as the villain.
** Shinn, who seems to have been an attempt at creating a [[DarkerAndEdgier darker, more conflicted]] Kira (or for those who see the Cosmic Era as a successor/retread of the original UC era, [[DarkerAndEdgier a darker, more unstable]] [[Anime/MobileSuitZetaGundam Kamille Bidan]]). It didn't work. It should be noted that Shinn was the third most popular male character in the CE franchise (behind Kira and Athrun), based on the then-current [=NewType=] and Gundam Ace character
** Lord Djibril is often seen as a much weaker villain compared to Murata Azrael. Unlike Azrael who was a highly effective antagonist for the last stage of ''SEED'' nicely countering Patrick Zala, Djibril is a one note glaringly incompetent moron who who only really serves to make Durandal and ZAFT look good. It ''really'' doesn't help that he keeps managing to escape his comeuppance for most of the series until the viewer is thoroughly sick of his stint as the villain.
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None
Changed line(s) 97 (click to see context) from:
&& Fans who disagree with Kira and Lacus' tactics often forget their motives and try to paint Lacus as the Cosmic Era's true GreaterScopeVillain and turn Kira into [[OmnicidalManiac Rau]] 2.0.
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Changed line(s) 14 (click to see context) from:
* AmericansHateTingle: Like ''SEED'', Lacus is unpopular in the west even though she's one of the most popular characters in Japan.
to:
* AmericansHateTingle: Like in ''SEED'', Kira and Lacus is are unpopular in the west even though she's one of they're among the most popular characters in Japan.
Changed line(s) 96 (click to see context) from:
* RonTheDeathEater: Fans who disagree with Kira and Lacus' tactics often forget their motives and try to turn Kira into [[OmnicidalManiac Rau]] 2.0. The ''actual'' Rau 2.0, Rey, also suffers from this at the hands of fans who Flanderise him into an irredeemable bastard, while forgetting his admiration for Durandal, [[WellIntentionedExtremist good intentions]], and a genuine friendship with Shinn. Which ironically demonstrates the flaws in the Destiny Plan that Rey believed in so much; he was genetically identical to Rau yet a distinctly different person.
to:
* RonTheDeathEater: RonTheDeathEater:
&& Fans who disagree with Kira and Lacus' tactics often forget their motives and try to paint Lacus as the Cosmic Era's true GreaterScopeVillain and turn Kira into [[OmnicidalManiac Rau]] 2.0. 0.
** The ''actual'' Rau 2.0, Rey, also suffers from this at the hands of fans who Flanderise him into an irredeemable bastard, while forgetting his admiration for Durandal, [[WellIntentionedExtremist good intentions]], and a genuine friendship with Shinn. Which ironically demonstrates the flaws in the Destiny Plan that Rey believed in so much; he was genetically identical to Rau yet a distinctly different person.
&& Fans who disagree with Kira and Lacus' tactics often forget their motives and try to paint Lacus as the Cosmic Era's true GreaterScopeVillain and turn Kira into [[OmnicidalManiac Rau]] 2.
** The ''actual'' Rau 2.0, Rey, also suffers from this at the hands of fans who Flanderise him into an irredeemable bastard, while forgetting his admiration for Durandal, [[WellIntentionedExtremist good intentions]], and a genuine friendship with Shinn. Which ironically demonstrates the flaws in the Destiny Plan that Rey believed in so much; he was genetically identical to Rau yet a distinctly different person.
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None
Changed line(s) 18 (click to see context) from:
** The existence of the [[spoiler:Akatsuki Gundam]] is rather dubious. [[spoiler:Apparently, Uzumi had a mobile suit constructed that has access to technologies like the DRAGOON system that did not exist at the time of his death, and it is able to fight on par with modern-day mobile suits when the Strike Rouge (while being piloted by Ultimate Coordinator Kira compared to how Cagalli still needs the assistance of an AI to pilot mobile suits) got trashed by regular grunts.]]
to:
** The existence of the [[spoiler:Akatsuki Gundam]] is not hinted at until right before it is used, but its existence at all is rather dubious. [[spoiler:Apparently, Uzumi had a mobile suit constructed that has access to technologies like the DRAGOON system that did not exist at the time of his death, and it is able to fight on par with modern-day mobile suits when the Strike Rouge (while being piloted by Ultimate Coordinator Kira compared to how Cagalli still needs the assistance of an AI to pilot mobile suits) got trashed by regular grunts.]]
* JerksAreWorseThanVillains: In a series with a [[FantasticRacism bigoted]] sociopath and a manipulative SocialDarwinist as its main two villains, DecoyProtagonist Shinn Asuka tends to get ''a much'' harder time from the fandom for his hypocrisy and InnocentlyInsensitive remarks.
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** During one of her first sorties with the Impulse, Luna has an opportunity to destroy a shuttle carrying a fleeing Djibril into space. [[spoiler:She misses all her shots and he escapes]]. This ''one'' thing has eternally defined her character for some people, though it was already established in episode 7 that Luna was a lousy shot during her target practice sessions. (Which makes it more Talia's fault for assigning the long range bombardment weapons to the worst shot of the trio.)
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** During one of her first sorties with the Impulse, Luna has an opportunity to destroy a shuttle carrying a fleeing Djibril into space. [[spoiler:She misses all her shots and he escapes]]. This ''one'' thing has eternally defined her character for some people, though it was already established in episode 7 that Luna was a lousy shot during her target practice sessions. (Which makes it more Talia's fault for assigning the long range bombardment weapons to the worst shot of the trio.)) Note that the manga adaptation had ''Kira'' in the same scenario and missing too.
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Critical Research Failure is a disambiguation page
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** It is commonly believed that part of the reason behind [[TheyWastedAPerfectlyGoodCharacter Cagalli's poor writing]] in Destiny is because her voice actor Naomi Shindo was having an affair with the director Fukuda, and that Morosawa (the series's writer and Fukuda's wife) assassinated her character out of spite. This is however not true for a number of reasons, not the least of which because [[CriticalResearchFailure Fukuda and Morosawa weren't yet married]] and that Morosawa was off having brain surgery at the time. If Shindo was indeed involved in an affair, then both her and Fukuda's careers would have been over due to Japan's exceedingly low tolerance towards extra-marital affairs. Yet the both of them continue to get work to this very day.
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** It is commonly believed that part of the reason behind [[TheyWastedAPerfectlyGoodCharacter Cagalli's poor writing]] in Destiny is because her voice actor Naomi Shindo was having an affair with the director Fukuda, and that Morosawa (the series's writer and Fukuda's wife) assassinated her character out of spite. This is however not true for a number of reasons, not the least of which because [[CriticalResearchFailure Fukuda and Morosawa weren't yet married]] married and that Morosawa was off having brain surgery at the time. If Shindo was indeed involved in an affair, then both her and Fukuda's careers would have been over due to Japan's exceedingly low tolerance towards extra-marital affairs. Yet the both of them continue to get work to this very day.
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None
Changed line(s) 34 (click to see context) from:
** It is commonly believed that part of the reason behind [[TheyWastedAPerfectlyGoodCharacter Cagalli's poor writing]] in Destiny is because her voice actor Naomi Shindo was having an affair with the director Fukuda, and that Morosawa (the series's writer and Fukuda's wife) assassinated her character out of spite. This is however not true for a number of reasons, not the least of which because [[CriticalResearchFailure Fukuda and Morosawa weren't yet married]] and that [[AuthorExistenceFailure Morosawa was off having brain surgery at the time]]. If Shindo was indeed involved in an affair, then both her and Fukuda's careers would have been over due to Japan's exceedingly low tolerance towards extra-marital affairs. Yet the both of them continue to get work to this very day.
to:
** It is commonly believed that part of the reason behind [[TheyWastedAPerfectlyGoodCharacter Cagalli's poor writing]] in Destiny is because her voice actor Naomi Shindo was having an affair with the director Fukuda, and that Morosawa (the series's writer and Fukuda's wife) assassinated her character out of spite. This is however not true for a number of reasons, not the least of which because [[CriticalResearchFailure Fukuda and Morosawa weren't yet married]] and that [[AuthorExistenceFailure Morosawa was off having brain surgery at the time]].time. If Shindo was indeed involved in an affair, then both her and Fukuda's careers would have been over due to Japan's exceedingly low tolerance towards extra-marital affairs. Yet the both of them continue to get work to this very day.
