History YMMV / FireEmblemGaiden

* JerksAreWorseThanVillains: Among the new characters added to the remake, Berkut is generally considered to be a solid new villain and additions to the story, often being praised as one of the best villains in the series. In contrast, Faye, the new playable character on Alm's route, is easily the most polarizing addition due to coming off as a ClingyJealousGirl who seems to be pleased with Alm and Celica's relationship troubles, as well as acting like a {{Jerkass}} for most of her and Silque's support. Fernand is also seen as an unsympathetic and one-note {{Jerkass}} compared to Berkut, though the DLC's expanded story beats did [[RescuedFromTheScrappyHeap help win some of his detractors to him.]]

* JerksAreWorseThanVillains: Among the new characters added to the remake, Berkut is generally considered to be a solid new villain and additions to the story, often being praised as one of the best villains in the series. In contrast, Faye, the new playable character on Alm's route, is easily the most polarizing addition due to coming off as a ClingyJealousGirl who seems to be pleased with Alm and Celica's relationship troubles, as well as acting like a {{Jerkass}} for most of her and Silque's support. Fernand is also seen as as an unsympathetic and one-note {{Jerkass}} compared to Berkut, though the DLC's expanded story beats did [[RescuedFromTheScrappyHeap help win some of his detractors to him.]]

** Killing [[MoreDespicableMinion Jedah]] is ''very'' satisfying after all the atrocities he did [[spoiler:such as offering two of his daughter’s souls as sacrifices to Duma, [[ForcedToWatch forcing Celica to watch]] as Alm fights his way to Rigel Castle, up to the point where Alm kills his father, thanking Alm for killing Rudolf, [[MoralEventHorizon offering Celica’s soul to Duma, and sadistically watching Alm and Celica fight to the death for his amusement]]]]. [[spoiler:Having either Alm, [[TheDogBitesBack Celica]], Conrad, Mycen, or even [[TheDogBitesBack Sonya]] land the killing blow is well-deserved karma]].

** Some [[HoYay Clair/Mathilda]] fans on Website/{{Tumblr}} do NOT take the presence of Clair's brother Clive kindly. Obviously, the fact that ''Echoes'' clearly establishes Clive and Mathilda are romantically involved (complete with Clair [[ShipperOnDeck supporting their relationship]] and even trying to steer Delthea away from her PrecociousCrush on Clive) does not sit well with them, as they believe Mathilda should romance Clair or other women instead.
** Gray and Boey sometimes get a similar treatment from the straight-hating fans, since canon places them as the closest to love interests for Clair and Mae respectively and that means they can't easily be shipped with other girls either.
** Some Faye "supporters," especially on Website/{{Tumblr}} (again) aren't much better. Some try to blame Faye's misfortune in love on Celica and passive-aggressively bash her for getting the guy Faye wanted, conveniently ignoring that Celica has conflicts of her own related to her and Alm [[note]](namely, the misunderstandings between the two that trigger the route divisions and her whole "SecretlySelfish" deal)[[/note]]. Others try to "fix" Faye by just as passive-aggressively dismissing her feelings on Alm while shipping her with girls (especially Catria or Clair), conveniently ignoring the creepy implications coming from it [[note]](namely, them using anti-lesbian stereotypes like "women will turn lesbian if they get burned by men" and "female/female relationships are inherently more pure and wholesome" to "fix" Faye's problems)[[/note]].
** Fernand/Berkut shippers, particularly on Tumblr (yet again), do not take kindly to Rinea's existence, thinking of her as a generic LoveInterest who solely exists to be [[TheWoobie Woobie bait]]. Many of these shippers dislike heterosexual pairings by default

* DisappointingLastLevel: From a purely gameplay standpoint, Act V is much more boring than the previous ones, being mostly a long slog through a dungeon and then the frustrating final map.

* JerksAreWorseThanVillains: Among the new characters added to the remake, Berkut and Fernand are generally considered to be solid new villain additions to the story, with Berkut in particular often being praised as one of the best villains in the series. In contrast, Faye, the new playable character on Alm's route, is easily the most polarizing addition due to coming off as a ClingyJealousGirl who seems to be pleased with Alm and Celica's relationship troubles, as well as acting like a {{Jerkass}} for most of her and Silque's support.

** It goes without saying that Celica has been shipped with a fair number of characters, both within reason and those that are far more...questionable for her. The most popular choices for her are Alm, Mae, and Saber, though she's also been shipped with Faye, Boey (usually as part of a OneTrueThreesome with Mae), and [[spoiler:''her own brother'']]. And that's not taking into account the other games she's appeared in!

* LoveToHate: Desaix and Slayde are scumbags without any redeemable qualities, but due to how they're written and acted one can genuinely ''enjoy'' despising them, making them stand out in a series with often one note antagonists.

** Jedah crossed it before the story when he sacrificed two of his three daughters to Duma.

** The Mercenary with the Leather Shield in Ram Valley gives a lot of players trouble, being practically a BossInMookClothing. Most physical attackers will only do ScratchDamage to him, and he's fast enough to double almost anyone. He's supposed to teach the player that they should make one of your Villagers a Mage (Kliff is highly recommended, [[GuideDangIt not that most first-time players would know this]]), but if they ''didn't'', one can only rely on Silque's 60% accurate Nosferatu spell. And it's a Rout battle, so one ''has'' to defeat him to proceed.

** Alessio's quests are some of the few in the game [[PermanentlyMissableContent that are timed]], and while missing them isn't a big deal (the rewards for completing the entire chain are 300 Silver Marks, a Coral Ring, and 900 Renown), it can be annoying for completionists. In particular, his quest at Grieth's Citadel requires you to sell him 5 Steel Lances [[note]]Which is more than there are available on Celica's route at that point unless the player makes use of the forge (to convert a maxed-out Iron Lance into a Steel Lance), and the three peddlers in Alm's route (to send over the Steel Lances his party has obtained). While you can get lucky and find some randomly in dungeons (specifically [[spoiler:Duma Tower]] for Celica), the chances are very low. Steel Lances are decent weapons, too, so you won't want to get rid of them[[/note]]. If you clear The Last Bastion in Alm's campaign before handing over all five, Alessio will depart from Grieth's Citadel, preventing you from finishing the quest. And even assuming you do hand over any Steel Lances before The Last Bastion, you'll find Slayde and his Rigelian Barons wielding them against you on said map.

* ViewerNameConfusion: Due to their extremely similar names, some fans mix up Celica's name with [[VideoGame/FireEmblemTheBindingBlade Cecilia's]]. The only thing that set the names apart is the extra lowercase "i" in the latter name. The resemblance is even closer to Seliph, whose name was spelled as "Celice" in the Japanese version.

** Killing [[MoreDespicableMinion Jedah]] is ''very'' satisfying after all the atrocities he did throughout the game. [[spoiler:Having either Alm, Celica, Conrad, Mycen, or even Sonya land the killing blow is well-deserved karma]].

** Killing Jedah is ''very'' satisfying after what he did through in the game. [[spoiler:Having either Alm, Celica, Conrad, Mycen, or even Sonya land the killing blow is well-deserved karma]].

* LowTierLetdown: While Armored Knights have always received some degree of criticism throughout the series, it's more prevalent than usual in ''Echoes'', where their low movement range is ''especially'' noticeable due to how wide and open some of the maps are as well as the [[ScrappyMechanic class never gaining movement]] in any of their two promotions unlike the other melee classes. The presence of Witches makes this even worse for them, as they make easy prey for them, and it can be difficult for your other units to get back to them and save them if they're lagging behind. The remake completely removed the features that mitigated this in ''Gaiden'' such as a ring that gave +5 movement and unlimited warp range, whilst giving Armored classes nothing but a skill in their final class that halves the damages of bow units. However bow enemies in ''Echoes'' are extremely range and due to their high movement and range, will never attack Baron units, preferring to instead attacking your [[SquishyWizard Magic units]] instead. As a result, Soldier/Knight/Baron is the only class that is recommended for not even one villager.

* {{Asspull}}: While likely due to limitations of storytelling at the time in gaming, the original version of the game's reveal of [[spoiler:Alm being the heir to Rigel]] comes out of nowhere and lacks any foreshadowing at all except for for the fact that Alm has a brand like Celica. The reveal that [[spoiler:Rudolf is his father]] also comes this way because there was no way to even guess a fact like that. The ''Echoes'' remake made this a major plot point to address and it's given much more buildup to justify it, averting the trope.

* LowTierLetdown While Armored Knight have always received some degree of criticism throughout the series, it's more prevalent than usual in ''Echoes'', where their low movement range is ''especially'' noticeable due to how wide and open some of the maps are as well as the [[ScrappyMechanic class never gaining movement]] in any of their two promotions unlike the other melee classes. The presence of Witches makes this even worse for them, as they make easy prey for them, and it can be difficult for your other units to get back to them and save them if they're lagging behind. The remake completely removed the features that mitigated this in ''Gaiden'' such as a ring that gave +5 movement and unlimited warp range, whilst giving Armored classes nothing but a skill in their final class that halves the damages of bow units. However bow enemies in ''Echoes'' are extremely range and due to their high movement and range, will never attack Baron units, preferring to instead attacking your [[SquishyWizard Magic units]] instead. As a result, Soldier/Knight/Baron is the only class that is recommended for not even one villager.

* ScrappyMechanic: The games' insistence on giving characters low Resistance growths. Unlike most games in the series, ''Gaiden'' and even ''Echoes'' give characters absurdly low growths for Resistance, despite how heavily magic is used by enemies. Meanwhile, enemies often have a solid Resistance stat that effectively punishes the use of magic by players and also punishes them for fighting magical units. To give context, most mages have a Resistance growth of 3, and characters who start as Mercenaries or Villagers ([[MyFriendsAndZoidberg and Randal]]) have a [[DumpStat zero percent growth rate]] there. In fact, the units with the highest growth rates for Resistance are Genny, Conrad, and Emma, who have pitiful five, eight, and ten percent Resistance growths respectively (and Emma is [[BribingYourWayToVictory a DLC character]]). This results in magic enemies having an absurdly easy time damaging units, hence why Witches are [[GoddamnBats considered extra frustrating]].

* HighTierScrappy:
** Deen. He is already controversial due to being seen by some as a relatively generic edgy character, he nonetheless manages to be an absolutely broken unit for his join time. Deen starts out with exceptional bases, and utterly eclipses his [[MutuallyExclusivePartyMembers Mutually Exclusive Party Member]] [[LadyOfBlackMagic Sonya]] in terms of base stats enough to carry him over to the end of the game, even if Sonya has better growths than him. What truly pushes Deen into this category is not just his status as an excellent unit, but his characterization seen as paling to the HiddenDepths of Sonya's characterization, and just being seen as a less likable character by comparison. This has convinced quite a few fans who don't play for keeps to instead go with Sonya, precisely because of them feeling Deen takes away the choice from an actually likable character for being far superior.
** Dread Fighters are one of a few Tier 3 promotions, and are naturally given a boost to resistance ''and'' a skill that reduces magic damage by half. That alone makes a Dread Fighter extremely powerful, but all of the choices for a Dread Fighter are powerful units, like [[MightyGlacier Saber]], [[LightningBruiser Gray]], and [[MagikarpPower Jesse]]. As the only class that can loop back to Villager without the use of the Pitchfork item, this allows them to gain even more stats than the other classes. The overpowered nature of the Dread Fighters have made many players outright refuse to use them since to more meta focused players, Dread Fighters can solo the final levels and break the game.

* LowTierLetdown:
** Delthea is an absolute ''beast'' of a mage with her attack already being high and the Priestess promotion making it even higher. On the other hand, she is a GlassCannon and lacks access to Thunder, meaning that if you want her to attack from a safe range, you have to give her a Mage Ring. And if you want to use higher-grade spells like Ragnarok, you better make sure a healer runs over quick because any spell with a cost above Fire will give a ''notable'' dent in her (already low) health. ''Echoes'' remedies these flaws of hers to an extent by giving Delthea better growth rates (most noticeably in Speed and Luck), as well as providing her a Prayer Ring [[note]]which has [[RegeneratingHealth Recovery]] and the Luck-dependent [[LastChanceHitPoint Miracle]] as passive abilities[[/note]] as starting equipment to take advantage of her improved stats and growths. Alternatively, if you do end up giving her a Mage Ring, she can stay back and use all her spells from an extra space or two away, allowing you to use Seraphim and Ragnarok without fear of being attacked while safely being available for healing.
** While Knights/Barons have always received some degree of criticism throughout the series, it's more prevalent than ever in ''Gaiden'' and ''Echoes'', where their low movement range is ''especially'' noticeable due to how wide and open some of the maps are. The presence of Witches makes this even worse for them, as they make easy prey for them, and it can be difficult for your other units to get back to them and save them if they're lagging behind. However, the individual units like Lukas, Forsyth, and Valbar do have ''one'' redeeming factor in ''Echoes'', and that is that they're arguably the best candidates for the Pitchfork item. Thanks to the class's extremely high bases for [[MightyGlacier Attack and Defense]], and the way class changing works in this game, promoting them into a Dread Fighter will give you a OneManArmy of a unit who will excel in almost every stat. However, this means the Armor class line is the worst choice for any villager.

** ''Echoes'' is also considered one, for while it's generally seen as a PolishedPort and many fans of the older games who disliked ''Awakening'' and ''Fates'' see it as a return to form, several of the mechanics and map design being retained from ''Gaiden'' has led to a case of SeinfeldIsUnfunny for others, especially compared to its immediate predecessors' tighter gameplay. In addition, the overall amount of characters and supports is limited, which has brought ''FE'''s long-standing "quality vs. quantity" argument regarding them to a head. There’s also the fact that the highly divisive Act 5 remains intact, for the most part.

* EnjoyTheStorySkipTheGame: The general consensus on the ''Echoes'' remake is that its gameplay is relatively weak due to [[SeinfeldIsUnfunny retaining a lot of the original game's outdated mechanics]] and bland map design. But its writing, voice acting, and characters have received a lot of praise and are generally cited as the main reason to play the game.

* SeinfeldIsUnfunny: While ''Echoes'' is held as a better remake than ''[[VideoGame/FireEmblemShadowDragonAndTheBladeOfLight Shadow Dragon]]'' was, it retains a few aspects of ''Gaiden'' that make it seem dated -- primarily the map design. The maps are larger, but far more spread out than they were in previous titles, and with fewer units to fight. Coming after ''[[VideoGame/FireEmblemFates Fates]]'' (''Conquest'' in particular), which was lauded for its engaging and creatively designed levels, makes the maps in ''Echoes'' look flat and uninspired by comparison.

* SuddenlyImprovedSequel: For some who really weren't fans of the previous 3DS games and preferered the older titles, Echoes was a nice surprise going back to gameplay/story more like the older games.

** Slayde threatens to kill Faye as a kid, which seems to be the starting point for her crush on Alm blooming into a full-on obsession, this is never brought up again and the two don't even have any dialogue if they fight in any future maps.

** It's surprising Genny cannot support with Saber, given [[LikesOlderMen Genny's preference in men]], them hooking up in the novel, and expanded backstory in ''Echoes'' as [[spoiler:a child left abandoned at the priory by her mother]], as well as Saber's mention of [[spoiler:a younger sister he lost contact with years ago]].

** Tatiana was raised in an orphanage run by the Church of Rigel, where she had many friends and was well cared for, becoming a priestess of the religion. In other words, she's a present-day Duma Faithful. A support with Silque, a devout follower of Mila, would reinforce the dichotomy between followers of Duma and Mila, as well as talk about how the church operates under Jedah or even the transition between Halcyon and Jedah. Yet, nothing is elaborated and instead focuses on Tatiana's fixation with Zeke and poor Silque only gets one support with the highly-divisive Faye.

** Faye from the ''Echoes'' remake is also split on supporters vs detractors. While her design is generally cute, and having a female character allowed for more diversity, her overall characterization is a point of contention: having an unrequited crush on Alm as her main character focus[[note]]Even to the point where, though she [[GracefulLoser accepts]] that Alm doesn't feel the same way, she never does get over him even in her endings. During a few conversations, she seems a bit pleased when she hears Alm and Celica are having troubles, and has a moment of weakness trying to assure him that she's the only one he can count on... ''however'', if Alm doesn't recruit her while Celica does, Faye is quite happy to see her old friend again, and gets a support bonus with her (along with Mycen), so while there are moments of inner conflict she still doesn't hold Celica in contempt. How the player regards the HopelessSuitor and AllLoveIsUnrequited tropes in-of-themselves also plays a big part in how Faye is regarded.[[/note]], her lack of supports with the cast at large (leaving it up to the player how well or not she fits in, whether her character is deep enough or not, etc), and her sole support (other than Alm) being with Silque[[note]]In which Faye is uninterested in conversing unless it was about Alm, though later on she does mention feeling guilty about this, and tries to befriend her for real. Whether this prior aloofness is a result of loneliness, not knowing how to talk to someone she's never met before (unlike her childhood friends), and/or a result of the war itself [[AmbiguousDisorder taking a toll on her]], is all up for debate. Silque having a dedicated fanbase also didn't help, in regards to how Faye initially treated Silque.[[/note]].
** For Celica, the debate is over if she is a well written female Lord who is given realistic flaws and has a character arc that is consistent with the game's story, as well as being an overall likeable character, or if she's a hypocritical character who constantly makes stupid choices. Not helping is how the game portrays her flaws and beliefs, which lead many to debate if she's unsympathetic, or if that was the intent. The debate over Celica can get particularly nasty, outside of her voice acting.

** Luthier is WeakButSkilled, starts off as a magic CrutchCharacter, and will be the first mage you get for Alm if you didn't turn a villager into one. The issue is his stats; his stats are extremely poor for offensive fighting, as he lacks a high Attack, Luck, or Speed stat to make his spells powerful. Worse is that a mage Kliff will be doing far better than he will with some investment, and learns all the spells Luthier knows plus Aura. Even worse is that he learns Thunder and Sagittae after leveling up instead of starting with one, meaning once you get him, he'll have to stay up close to attack, putting him at high risk of dying. Whereas Delthea can be a good unit in ''Echoes'', Luthier will often fall behind.
** Python is notorious for missing enemies a ''lot'' before he promotes to Sniper, and even then he can still fail to land a hit. Furthermore, he tends to have to deal with Tobin, who is generally more reliable if made an Archer. He also has to contend with Alm after he promotes, who has superior offensive power and can usually go without a bow equipped and still hit more often than Python.

** Similarly, some of the hate leveled at Rinea comes from the fact that she's a [[ShyBlueHairedGirl shy]] NiceGirl who is uncomfortable with Berkut's more aggressive moments, making some players call her a pointless NeutralFemale, though unlike Celica, Rinea is never shown doing anything useful in the game or holding any actual beliefs herself. Unlike many NeutralFemale characters in the series, she has no purpose other than to be a measuring stick for Berkut's morality, never interacts with anyone other than Berkut, and stands by wringing her hands about how war is bad instead of doing anything about it (begging the question of why she married a ProudWarriorRaceGuy general like Berkut in the first place if she hates war and court politics so much[[note]]As seen in a Memory Prism, Berkut was fairly kind to her (and continued to be), hinting at a somewhat-lengthy relationship that led up to the present, where unfortunately the war then led to Berkut's other traits taking precedence (and worse). Also, Rinea was looked down upon by many for her family's impoverished state, yet despite believing in the divisions between nobles and commoners, Berkut didn't seem to care about Rinea's diminished status because of his feelings for her.[[/note]]) or taking a more proactive approach in helping mend her fiance's rapidly-declining mental state.

* WhatMeasureIsANonBadass:
** Since Celica is sensitive and kindly ''plus'' secretly insecure ''and'' the end of the game has her facing the consequences of such a huge and glaring FatalFlaw, she has become [[http://kah-hoa-raverkeinst.tumblr.com/post/161743038337/so-about-celicas-decision-in-chapter-45 the target of several "weak", "dumb" and "damsel in distress" accusations.]]
** Similarly, some of the hate leveled at Rinea comes from the fact that she's a [[ShyBlueHairedGirl shy]] NiceGirl who is uncomfortable with Berkut's more aggressive moments, making some players call her a pointless NeutralFemale, though unlike Celica, Rinea is never shown doing anything useful in the game or holding any actual beliefs herself. Unlike many NeutralFemale characters in the series, she has no purpose other than to be a measuring stick for Berkut's morality, never interacts with anyone other than Berkut, and stands by wringing her hands about how war is bad instead of doing anything about it (begging the question of why she married a ProudWarriorRaceGuy general like Berkut in the first place if she hates war and court politics so much[[note]]As seen in a Memory Prism, Berkut was fairly kind to her (and continued to be), hinting at a somewhat-lengthy relationship that led up to the present, where unfortunately the war then led to Berkut's other traits taking precedence (and worse). Also, Rinea was looked down upon by many for her family's impoverished state, yet despite believing in the divisions between nobles and commoners, Berkut didn't seem to care about Rinea's diminished status because of his feelings for her.[[/note]]) or taking a more proactive approach in helping mend her fiance's rapidly-declining mental state.

** Clive starts with fairly high base stats and is useful in Chapter 1 and the first few levels of Chapter 3, but is infamous for underperforming compared to the other great units in Alm's route, including the many other cavaliers that join. His growths are all mediocre, even in ''Echoes'' where most units have moderate growths, and he has to compete with Mathilda, Zeke, and Mycen (never mind the fact that the villagers can be made Cavaliers as well). Basically, Clive is a CrutchCharacter who simply CantCatchUp compared to the other solid cavaliers in Alm's route.

** Atlas suffers from a severe case of CripplingOverspecialization, having high Attack and HP, but doing very poorly everywhere else. While most players can salvage this by promoting him into an Archer, allowing him to take advantage of his massive strength with long-ranged attacks, he still joins somewhat late into Celica's route and will be underleveled, so it'll take some time and effort get him there.

** Clive has just as many supporters as he does detractors. Those for him find his SupportingLeader status interesting, like his constant interaction with other characters (notably Mathilda), and enjoy his character arc. Those against find him rather boring and wish that of all the characters to receive extended screen time, that it wasn't Clive. This is to say nothing of [[TierInducedScrappy his viability (or lack thereof) as a unit]] and [[DieForOurShip him "getting between" ships that involve Mathilda]] which his haters project on him.

** A set of free DownloadableContent allows players to obtain an item called a Pitchfork, which allows any unit except for Alm and Celica to change class into a Villager and subsequently promote into another class whilst keeping their stats from their original class, and is the closest thing ''Echoes'' has to Second Seals/Heart Seals from the prior 3DS games. Only three Pitchforks are obtainable in a single playthrough, and almost all players elect to use them to change Lukas, Forsyth, and Valbar from [[TierInducedScrappy Knights]] into Dread Fighters, as their high HP, Str, and Def from starting as Knights combined with the Dread Fighter's high everything else and innate ability to halve all magic damage makes them into veritable [[OneManArmy One-Man Armies]], on top of being able to use the "Dread Fighter loop" to have an infinite number of level ups if the player so desires. Other uses for the forks are pretty much never discussed, as nothing is anywhere near as efficient as simply using them to turn those three characters or just any other character you happen to like into the near-GameBreaker that is the Dread Fighter.

* HighTierScrappy: Deen. He is already controversial due to being seen by some as a relatively generic edgy character, he nonetheless manages to be an absolutely broken unit for his join time. Deen starts out with exceptional bases, and utterly eclipses his [[MutuallyExclusivePartyMembers Mutually Exclusive Party Member]] [[LadyOfBlackMagic Sonya]] in terms of base stats enough to carry him over to the end of the game, even if Sonya has better growths than him. What truly pushes Deen into this category is not just his status as an excellent unit, but his characterization seen as paling to the HiddenDepths of Sonya's characterization, and just being seen as a less likable character by comparison. This has convinced quite a few fans who don't play for keeps to instead go with Sonya, precisely because of them feeling Deen takes away the choice from an actually likable character for being far superior.

* TierInducedScrappy: While the game somewhat downplays this due to the fact that, outside of dungeons and very select fights, you can use your entire army in battle, both Alm and Celica have units in their route that simply fall behind or just flat-out suck.
** Clive. Although he starts with fairly high base stats and is useful in Chapter 1 and the first few levels of Chapter 3, Clive is infamous for underperforming compared to the other great units in Alm's route, including the many other cavaliers that join. His growths are all mediocre, even in ''Echoes'' where most units have moderate growths, and he has to compete with Mathilda, Zeke, and Mycen (never mind the fact that the villagers can be made Cavaliers as well). Basically, Clive is a CrutchCharacter who simply CantCatchUp compared to the other solid cavaliers in Alm's route.
** Gray and Kliff are downplayed examples, as it largely depends on what you do with them, as is Tobin in any class but [[GameBreaker an Archer]]. Despite Kliff having a much, ''much'' better variety of spells (arguably the best in the game), StatisticallySpeaking, he is rather prone to being RNG-screwed and other mages (especially the ones on Celica's route) have better health stats. While usually better than Luthier, it still takes a bit of luck. Gray and Tobin meanwhile have great initial stats, but start to fall off as time goes on, especially if they get RNG-screwed. Fortunately, promoting them can alleviate many of their issues (as does taking advantage of their extra Villager levels if the player has the patience), but they may still lag behind. Gray going Mercenary, as is commonly suggested, patches up his main issues of shaky skill and speed, but, again, he can easily get RNG screwed if you're unlucky.
** Delthea. On one hand, she is an absolute ''beast'' of a mage with her attack already being high and the Priestess promotion making it even higher. On the other hand, she is a GlassCannon and lacks access to Thunder, meaning that if you want her to attack from a safe range, you have to give her a Mage Ring. And if you want to use higher-grade spells like Ragnarok, you better make sure a healer runs over quick because any spell with a cost above Fire will give a ''notable'' dent in her (already low) health. ''Echoes'' remedies these flaws of hers to an extent by giving Delthea better growth rates (most noticeably in Speed and Luck), as well as providing her a Prayer Ring [[note]]which has [[RegeneratingHealth Recovery]] and the Luck-dependent [[LastChanceHitPoint Miracle]] as passive abilities[[/note]] as starting equipment to take advantage of her improved stats and growths. Alternatively, if you do end up giving her a Mage Ring, she can stay back and use all her spells from an extra space or two away, allowing you to use Seraphim and Ragnarok without fear of being attacked while safely being available for healing.
** Luthier suffers from the exact opposite problem. Since he is WeakButSkilled, he starts off as a magic CrutchCharacter, and will be the first mage you get for Alm if you didn't turn a villager into one. The issue is his stats; his stats are extremely poor for offensive fighting, as he lacks a high Attack, Luck, or Speed stat to make his spells powerful. Worse is that a mage Kliff will be doing far better than he will with some investment, and learns all the spells Luthier knows plus Aura. Even worse is that he learns Thunder and Sagittae after leveling up instead of starting with one, meaning once you get him, he'll have to stay up close to attack, putting him at high risk of dying. Whereas Delthea can be a good unit in ''Echoes'', Luthier will often fall behind.
** Atlas suffers from a severe case of CripplingOverspecialization, having high Attack and HP, but doing very poorly everywhere else. While most players can salvage this by promoting him into an Archer, allowing him to take advantage of his massive strength with long-ranged attacks, he still joins somewhat late into Celica's route and will be underleveled, so it'll take some time and effort get him there.
** Python is notorious for missing enemies a ''lot'' before he promotes to Sniper, and even then he can still fail to land a hit. Furthermore, he tends to have to deal with Tobin, who is generally more reliable if made an Archer. He also has to contend with Alm after he promotes, who has superior offensive power and can usually go without a bow equipped and still hit more often than Python.
** While Knights/Barons have always gotten some degree of this throughout the series, it's more prevalent than ever in ''Gaiden'' and ''Echoes'', where their low movement range is ''especially'' noticeable due to how wide and open some of the maps are. The presence of Witches makes this even worse for them, as they make easy prey for them, and it can be difficult for your other units to get back to them and save them if they're lagging behind. However, the individual units like Lukas, Forsyth, and Valbar do have ''one'' redeeming factor in ''Echoes'', and that is that they're arguably the best candidates for the Pitchfork item. Thanks to the class's extremely high bases for [[MightyGlacier Attack and Defense]], and the way class changing works in this game, promoting them into a Dread Fighter will give you a OneManArmy of a unit who will excel in almost every stat. However, this means the Armor class line is the worst choice for any villager.
** A rare example of the high tier use of the trope is the Dread Fighters. They're one of a few Tier 3 promotions, and are naturally given a boost to resistance ''and'' a skill that reduces magic damage by half. That alone makes a Dread Fighter extremely powerful, but all of the choices for a Dread Fighter are powerful units, like [[MightyGlacier Saber]], [[LightningBruiser Gray]], and [[MagikarpPower Jesse]]. As the only class that can loop back to Villager without the use of the Pitchfork item, this allows them to gain even more stats than the other classes. The overpowered nature of the Dread Fighters have made many players outright refuse to use them since to more meta focused players, Dread Fighters can solo the final levels and break the game.
** This can be invoked by the player, since the player has the choice to promote the villagers however they want. If you promote someone to a field already saturated within the route (ex. Atlas into a Cavalier or Mage instead of the [[ComplacentGamingSyndrome usual suggestion]] of Archer), they may end up lagging behind everyone else.

** Some Faye "supporters," especially on Website/{{Tumblr}} (again) aren't much better. Some try to blame Faye's misfortune in love on Celica and passive-aggressively bash her for getting the guy Faye wanted, conveniently ignoring that Celica has conflicts of her own related to her and Alm [[note]](namely, the misunderstandings between the two that trigger the route divisions and her whole "SecretlySelfish" deal)[[/note]]. Others try to "fix" Faye by just as passive-aggressively dismissing her feelings on Alm while shipping her with girls (especially Catria or Clair), conveniently ignoring the creepy UnfortunateImplications coming from it [[note]](namely, them using anti-lesbian stereotypes like "women will turn lesbian if they get burned by men" and "female/female relationships are inherently more pure and wholesome" to "fix" Faye's problems)[[/note]].

** Cantors take a while to kill. They aren't really "hard" ''per se'', but they just don't let up on the summoning, and it can get tedious after a while. Gargoyle Cantors are especially annoying due to just how many they throw at you and how the Gargoyles have enormous movement. You may want to turn animations off to save the time of seeing Gargoyle after Gargoyle slowly die.

** This can be invoked by the player, since the player has the choice to promote the villagers however they want. If you promote someone to a field already saturated within the route (ex. Atlas into a Mercenary or Mage instead of the [[ComplacentGamingSyndrome usual suggestion]] of Archer), they may end up lagging behind everyone else.

* LoveToHate: Desaix and Slayde are scumbags without any redeemable qualities, but due to how they're written and acted one can genuinely ''enjoy'' despising them, making them stand out in a series with often one note antagonists.

** Rudolf. He has an obscene 52 HP, 30 Attack, 24 Speed, 25 Defense, and 16 Resistance. He will be able to double even your Dread Fighters, take all but the heaviest blows, and retaliate for massive damage. In addition, he has an Angel Ring that gives him a dangerous boost to his crit rate. Finally, he has 9 movement, allowing him to shoot across the battlefield in an instant. Your best bet is to overwhelm him with Delthea's Ragnarok and Kliff's Sagittae and take advantage of his refusal to attack [[spoiler:his son]] Alm, and the chapter mercifully ends once he goes down.