Follow TV Tropes

Following

History YMMV / DarkDisciple

Go To

OR

Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


** Aayla Secura, who used to be Vos's Padawan, and even claimed that he had been like a father to her, is completely absent from the novel, and isn't even mentioned.

to:

** Aayla Secura, who used to be Vos's Padawan, and even claimed that he had been like a father to her, is completely absent from the novel, and isn't even mentioned. This is probably in part the result of Golden's research extending only as far as watching ''The Clone Wars'', where Aayla doesn't give the name of the master she's talking about, and their relation was only confirmed in the episode guide for "Jedi Crash".
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:


* LoveItOrHateIt: It's by far the most Base Breaking entry in the new canon novels. Some feel that it's the best, some feel that it's the worst, some feel that it's good but flawed, some feel that it's mediocre with some redeeming values. The way the Jedi Council and Ventress act in the novel don't help matters.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None

Added DiffLines:

** Some fans of Vos's Legends appearances were not happy that Jon Ostrander and Jan Duursema, Vos's co-creators, weren't mentioned or thanked in the novel's acknowledgments section.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


!Tropes
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None

Added DiffLines:

* MagnificentBastard: The way Dooku reveals the truth about Tholme's death to Quinlan, is awesome in it's assholishness. First he just says it was Ventress, then shows him a holo-record of the event, then when Quinlan still refuses to believe him, he gives Quinlan Tholme's lightsaber to read with his Psychometry. Mind you, Dooku's not forcing Quinlan to touch it. He just leaves it in his cell, knowing full well, the doupt he planted, will eventually force Quinlan to give in. And let's not forget, it's a lightsaber. ''He gives a Jedi weapon, to a Jedi prisoner'', since if he's got to touch it if he wants to use it to escape, which would mean reading it.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


** Before ''The Clone Wars'' movie was released, Ventress was stated to have a FakeTheDead [[DiedInYourArmsTonight as she laid dying in Obi-Wan's arms]], then doing a ScrewThisImOuttaHere from the Clone Wars entirely in the ''Obsession'' comic from ''Legends'', with an AllThereInTheManual later saying that while in exile on Tatooine, Obi-Wan planted desert flowers in memory of Ventress. [[spoiler:In canon, she is now KilledOffForReal and [[SchrodingersCanon there is nothing to say that Obi-Wan still did or didn't plant flowers in Ventress's memory.]]]]

to:

** Before ''The Clone Wars'' movie was released, Ventress was stated to have a FakeTheDead [[FakingTheDead fake her death]], having [[DiedInYourArmsTonight as she laid dying died in Obi-Wan's arms]], then doing a ScrewThisImOuttaHere from the Clone Wars entirely in the ''Obsession'' comic from ''Legends'', with an AllThereInTheManual later saying that while in exile on Tatooine, Obi-Wan planted desert flowers in memory of Ventress. [[spoiler:In canon, she is now KilledOffForReal and [[SchrodingersCanon there is nothing to say that Obi-Wan still did or didn't plant flowers in Ventress's memory.]]]]

Added: 829

Changed: 310

Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


** The Ventress/Vos romance, besides those that shipped the two with others, Ventress with Obi-wan and Vos with his ''Legends'' EU love interest, some just found that the romance dragged on the story.

to:

** The Ventress/Vos romance, besides those that shipped the two with others, Ventress with Obi-wan and Vos with his Khaleen (his ''Legends'' EU love interest, interest), [[StrangledByTheRedString some just found that the romance dragged on the story.story]].



** Killing off [[spoiler: Ventress was very divisive, with many feeling that her death was cheap and that she should have lived due to being a more prominent and popular character than Vos, while others felt that her embracing the light in death properly ended her story arc.]]
* HarsherInHindsight: The story is kicked off by the Jedi Council deciding to assassinate Count Dooku. Creator/ChristopherLee, who played Dooku in ''Film/AttackOfTheClones'' and ''Film/RevengeOfTheSith'' passed away on Jun 7 2015- ''exactly a month prior'' to the release date of the novel.

to:

** Killing off [[spoiler: Ventress [[spoiler:Ventress was very divisive, with many feeling that her death was cheap and that she should have lived due to being a more prominent and popular character than Vos, while others felt that her embracing the light in death properly ended her story arc.]]
* HarsherInHindsight: HarsherInHindsight:
**
The story is kicked off by the Jedi Council deciding to assassinate Count Dooku. Creator/ChristopherLee, who played Dooku in ''Film/AttackOfTheClones'' and ''Film/RevengeOfTheSith'' passed away on Jun 7 2015- ''exactly a month prior'' to the release date of the novel.novel.
** Before ''The Clone Wars'' movie was released, Ventress was stated to have a FakeTheDead [[DiedInYourArmsTonight as she laid dying in Obi-Wan's arms]], then doing a ScrewThisImOuttaHere from the Clone Wars entirely in the ''Obsession'' comic from ''Legends'', with an AllThereInTheManual later saying that while in exile on Tatooine, Obi-Wan planted desert flowers in memory of Ventress. [[spoiler:In canon, she is now KilledOffForReal and [[SchrodingersCanon there is nothing to say that Obi-Wan still did or didn't plant flowers in Ventress's memory.]]]]

Changed: 1

Removed: 531

Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


!Tropes:

* BadassDecay: Dooku being beaten by Quinlan Vos in their second lightsaber battle (and Vos rubbing it in Dooku's face by telling him that Sidious might be ready to replace Dooku with Vos as his new apprentice) was this for some people.
** Also, Dooku being defeated and detained by the bounty hunters Boba Fett, Bossk, Embo, Latts Razzi, C-21 Highsinger and Marrok in the book, though [[https://youtu.be/7yKM6RExLlI?t=35m31s corresponding animatics indicate it would have been anything but an easy victory for the bounty hunters]].

to:

!Tropes:

* BadassDecay: Dooku being beaten by Quinlan Vos in their second lightsaber battle (and Vos rubbing it in Dooku's face by telling him that Sidious might be ready to replace Dooku with Vos as his new apprentice) was this for some people.
** Also, Dooku being defeated and detained by the bounty hunters Boba Fett, Bossk, Embo, Latts Razzi, C-21 Highsinger and Marrok in the book, though [[https://youtu.be/7yKM6RExLlI?t=35m31s corresponding animatics indicate it would have been anything but an easy victory for the bounty hunters]].
!Tropes
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* MoralEventHorizon: Count Dooku has committed plenty of atrocities throughout the Clone Wars, but the massacre of the Mahran race just for being Republic citizens may as well be one of the most abhorrent things he's explicitly done in the new canon. It's even considered as such in-universe, as this act is what prompts the Jedi Council [[GodzillaThreshold to finally consider assassinating him]] (something that [[MartialPacifist Jedi]] are traditionally against).

to:

* MoralEventHorizon: Count Dooku has Dooku's committed plenty of atrocities throughout the Clone Wars, but the massacre of the Mahran race just for being Republic citizens may as well be one of the most abhorrent things he's explicitly done in the new canon. It's even considered as such in-universe, as this act is what prompts the Jedi Council [[GodzillaThreshold to finally consider assassinating him]] (something that [[MartialPacifist Jedi]] are traditionally against).
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* BadassDecay: Dooku being beaten by Quinlan Vos in ''two'' lightsaber battles (and Vos rubbing it in Dooku's face at one point by telling him that Sidious might be ready to replace Dooku with Vos as his new apprentice) was this for some people.

to:

* BadassDecay: Dooku being beaten by Quinlan Vos in ''two'' their second lightsaber battles battle (and Vos rubbing it in Dooku's face at one point by telling him that Sidious might be ready to replace Dooku with Vos as his new apprentice) was this for some people.



** Desh. With the exception of his [[spoiler: Mutual Suicide attempt]] on Vos towards the end, he does nothing that couldn't have been done by Aayla Secura, Vos' former Padawan. The fact that Aayla isn't even mentioned has also gained the ire of some fans.
** The killing off of [[spoiler: Thlome]], a fan favorite character from the ''Legends'' EU and having the death be little more than a motivation for Vos, one that doesn't last at that.

to:

** Desh. With the exception of his [[spoiler: Mutual Suicide attempt]] attempt on Vos Vos]] towards the end, he does nothing that couldn't have been done by Aayla Secura, Vos' former Padawan. The fact that Aayla isn't even mentioned has also gained the ire of some fans.
** The killing off of [[spoiler: Thlome]], Tholme]], a fan favorite fan-favorite character from the ''Legends'' EU and having the death be little more than a motivation for Vos, one that doesn't last at that.

Added: 200

Changed: 210

Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* BaseBreaker: The Ventress/Vos romance, besides those that shipped the two with others, Ventress with Obi-wan and Vos with his ''Legends'' EU love interest, some just found that the romance dragged on the story.

to:

* BaseBreaker: BrokenBase:
**
The Ventress/Vos romance, besides those that shipped the two with others, Ventress with Obi-wan and Vos with his ''Legends'' EU love interest, some just found that the romance dragged on the story.

Changed: 457

Removed: 96

Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* MoralEventHorizon: Count Dooku has committed plenty of atrocities throughout the Clone Wars, but the massacre of the Mahran race just for being Republic citizens may as well be one of the most abhorrent things he has explicitly done in the new canon. It is even considered as such in-universe, as this act is what prompts the Jedi Council [[JumpingOffTheSlipperySlope to finally consider assassinating him]] (something that [[MartialPacifist Jedi]] are traditionally against).
* TakeThat: At the end of the novel, Obi-Wan calls the Council out on ordering a Jedi to commit assassination, since no matter the cause, that course of action is clearly of the Dark Side. Some readers wondered, if this was at once also a stealth insult to ''[[Literature/FateOfTheJedi Apocalypse]]'', in which Luke and a number of his Jedi committed ''hundreds'' of assassinations.
* TheyWastedAPerfectlyGoodPlot: There're two missed opportunities readers have complained about:

to:

* MoralEventHorizon: Count Dooku has committed plenty of atrocities throughout the Clone Wars, but the massacre of the Mahran race just for being Republic citizens may as well be one of the most abhorrent things he has he's explicitly done in the new canon. It is It's even considered as such in-universe, as this act is what prompts the Jedi Council [[JumpingOffTheSlipperySlope [[GodzillaThreshold to finally consider assassinating him]] (something that [[MartialPacifist Jedi]] are traditionally against).
* TakeThat: At the end of the novel, Obi-Wan calls the Council out on ordering a Jedi to commit assassination, since no matter the cause, that course of action is clearly of the Dark Side. Some readers wondered, if this was at once also a stealth insult to ''[[Literature/FateOfTheJedi Apocalypse]]'', in which Luke and a number of his Jedi committed ''hundreds'' of assassinations.
*
TheyWastedAPerfectlyGoodPlot: There're two missed opportunities readers have complained about:



** Similarly when the Council contemplates executing Vos without fair trial, they bring-up Barriss Offee's treason as an example of them having grown too placate. The fact that during the same unfortunate affair they readily sent an innocent without fair trial to the hands of the Republic Military Tribunal and very nearly to her death in an eerily similar manner to the one proposed, isn't brought up at all.

to:

** Similarly Similarly, when the Council contemplates executing Vos without fair trial, they bring-up bring up Barriss Offee's treason as an example of them having grown too placate. The fact that during the same unfortunate affair affair, they readily sent an innocent Ahsoka without fair trial to the hands of the Republic Military Tribunal and very nearly to her death in an eerily similar manner to the one proposed, isn't brought up at all.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


** Killing off [[spoiler: Ventress was very divisive, with many feeling that her death was cheap and that she should have lived as a more prominent and more popular character than Vos, while others felt that her embracing the light in death properly ended her story arc.]]

to:

** Killing off [[spoiler: Ventress was very divisive, with many feeling that her death was cheap and that she should have lived as due to being a more prominent and more popular character than Vos, while others felt that her embracing the light in death properly ended her story arc.]]
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None

Added DiffLines:

** Killing off [[spoiler: Ventress was very divisive, with many feeling that her death was cheap and that she should have lived as a more prominent and more popular character than Vos, while others felt that her embracing the light in death properly ended her story arc.]]
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* BaseBreaker: The Ventress/Vos romance, besides those that shipped the two with others, Ventress with Obi-wan and Vos with his ''Legends'' EU love intrest, some just found that the romance dragged on the story.

to:

* BaseBreaker: The Ventress/Vos romance, besides those that shipped the two with others, Ventress with Obi-wan and Vos with his ''Legends'' EU love intrest, interest, some just found that the romance dragged on the story.



* HarsherInHindsight: The story is kicked off by the Jedi Council deciding to assasinate Count Dooku. Creator/ChristopherLee, who played Dooku in ''Film/AttackOfTheClones'' and ''Film/RevengeOfTheSith'' passed away on Jun 7 2015- ''exactly a month prior'' to the release date of the novel.

to:

* HarsherInHindsight: The story is kicked off by the Jedi Council deciding to assasinate assassinate Count Dooku. Creator/ChristopherLee, who played Dooku in ''Film/AttackOfTheClones'' and ''Film/RevengeOfTheSith'' passed away on Jun 7 2015- ''exactly a month prior'' to the release date of the novel.



* TakeThat: At the end of the novel, Obi-Wan calls the Council out on ordering a Jedi to commit assasination, since no matter the cause, that course of action is clearly of the Dark Side. Some readers wondered, if this was at once also a stealth insult to ''[[Literature/FateOfTheJedi Apocalypse]]'', in which Luke and a number of his Jedi commited ''hundreds'' of assasinations.
* TheyWastedAPerfectlyGoodPlot: There're two missed opportunities readers have compalined about:
** Aayla Secura, who used to be Vos's Padawan, and even claimed that he had been like a father to her, is completely abscent from the novel, and isn't even mentioned.

to:

* TakeThat: At the end of the novel, Obi-Wan calls the Council out on ordering a Jedi to commit assasination, assassination, since no matter the cause, that course of action is clearly of the Dark Side. Some readers wondered, if this was at once also a stealth insult to ''[[Literature/FateOfTheJedi Apocalypse]]'', in which Luke and a number of his Jedi commited committed ''hundreds'' of assasinations.
assassinations.
* TheyWastedAPerfectlyGoodPlot: There're two missed opportunities readers have compalined complained about:
** Aayla Secura, who used to be Vos's Padawan, and even claimed that he had been like a father to her, is completely abscent absent from the novel, and isn't even mentioned.

Added: 478

Changed: 1

Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* MoralEventHorizon: Count Dooku has committed plenty of atrocities throughout the Clone Wars, but the massacre of the Mahran race just for being Republic citizens may as well be one of the most abhorrent things he has explicitly done in the new canon. It is even considered as such in-universe, as this act is what prompts the Jedi Council [[JumpingOffTheSlipperySlope to finally consider assassinating him]] (something that [[MartialPacifist Jedi]] are traditionally against).



** Similarly when the Council contemplates executing Vos without fair trial, they bring-up Barriss Offee's treason as an example of them having grown too placate. The fact that during the same unfortunate affair they readily sent an innocent without fair trial to the hands of the Republic Military Tribunal and very nearly to her death in an eerily similar manner to the one propsed, isn't brought up at all.

to:

** Similarly when the Council contemplates executing Vos without fair trial, they bring-up Barriss Offee's treason as an example of them having grown too placate. The fact that during the same unfortunate affair they readily sent an innocent without fair trial to the hands of the Republic Military Tribunal and very nearly to her death in an eerily similar manner to the one propsed, proposed, isn't brought up at all.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None

Added DiffLines:

* LoveItOrHateIt: It's by far the most Base Breaking entry in the new canon novels. Some feel that it's the best, some feel that it's the worst, some feel that it's good but flawed, some feel that it's mediocre with some redeeming values. The way the Jedi Council and Ventress act in the novel don't help matters.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* HarsherInHindsight: The story is kicked off by the Jedi Council deciding to assasinate Count Dooku. Creator/ChristopherLee, who played Dooku in ''Film/AttackOfTheClones'' and ''Film/RevengeOfTheSith'' passed away on Jun 7 2015- ''exactly a month prior to the release date of the novel''.
* TakeThat: At the end of the novel, Obi-Wan calls a Council out on ordering a Jedi to commit assasination, since no matter the cause, that course of action is clearly of the Dark Side. Some readers wondered, if this was at once also a stealth insult to ''[[Literature/FateOfTheJedi Apocalypse]]'', in which Luke and a number of his Jedi commited ''hundreds'' of assasinations.

to:

* HarsherInHindsight: The story is kicked off by the Jedi Council deciding to assasinate Count Dooku. Creator/ChristopherLee, who played Dooku in ''Film/AttackOfTheClones'' and ''Film/RevengeOfTheSith'' passed away on Jun 7 2015- ''exactly a month prior prior'' to the release date of the novel''.
novel.
* TakeThat: At the end of the novel, Obi-Wan calls a the Council out on ordering a Jedi to commit assasination, since no matter the cause, that course of action is clearly of the Dark Side. Some readers wondered, if this was at once also a stealth insult to ''[[Literature/FateOfTheJedi Apocalypse]]'', in which Luke and a number of his Jedi commited ''hundreds'' of assasinations.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None

Added DiffLines:

* TakeThat: At the end of the novel, Obi-Wan calls a Council out on ordering a Jedi to commit assasination, since no matter the cause, that course of action is clearly of the Dark Side. Some readers wondered, if this was at once also a stealth insult to ''[[Literature/FateOfTheJedi Apocalypse]]'', in which Luke and a number of his Jedi commited ''hundreds'' of assasinations.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


** Also, Dooku being defeated and detained by the bounty hunters Boba Fett, Bossk, Embo, Latts Razzi, C-21 Highsinger and Marrok in the book, even though [[https://youtu.be/7yKM6RExLlI?t=35m31s corresponding animatics indicate it would have been anything but an easy victory for the bounty hunters]].

to:

** Also, Dooku being defeated and detained by the bounty hunters Boba Fett, Bossk, Embo, Latts Razzi, C-21 Highsinger and Marrok in the book, even though [[https://youtu.be/7yKM6RExLlI?t=35m31s corresponding animatics indicate it would have been anything but an easy victory for the bounty hunters]].
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None

Added DiffLines:

** Also, Dooku being defeated and detained by the bounty hunters Boba Fett, Bossk, Embo, Latts Razzi, C-21 Highsinger and Marrok in the book, even though [[https://youtu.be/7yKM6RExLlI?t=35m31s corresponding animatics indicate it would have been anything but an easy victory for the bounty hunters]].
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* BadassDecay: Dooku being beaten by Quinlan Vos in ''two'' lightsaber battles (and Vos rubbing it in Dooku's face at one point by telling him that Sidious might be ready to trade Dooku in for Vos) was this for some people.

to:

* BadassDecay: Dooku being beaten by Quinlan Vos in ''two'' lightsaber battles (and Vos rubbing it in Dooku's face at one point by telling him that Sidious might be ready to trade replace Dooku in for Vos) with Vos as his new apprentice) was this for some people.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* BadassDecay: Dooku being beaten by Quinlan Vos in ''two'' lightsaber battles was this for some people.

to:

* BadassDecay: Dooku being beaten by Quinlan Vos in ''two'' lightsaber battles (and Vos rubbing it in Dooku's face at one point by telling him that Sidious might be ready to trade Dooku in for Vos) was this for some people.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None

Added DiffLines:

* BadassDecay: Dooku being beaten by Quinlan Vos in ''two'' lightsaber battles was this for some people.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* HarsherInHindsight: The story is kicked off by the Jedi Council deciding to assasinate Count Dooku. Creator/ChristopherLee, who played Dooku in ''Film/AttackOfTheClones'' and ''Film/RevengeOfTheSith'' passed away on Jun 7 2015- ''exactly a month prior to the release date of the novel''.

to:

* HarsherInHindsight: The story is kicked off by the Jedi Council deciding to assasinate Count Dooku. Creator/ChristopherLee, who played Dooku in ''Film/AttackOfTheClones'' and ''Film/RevengeOfTheSith'' passed away on Jun 7 2015- ''exactly a month prior to the release date of the novel''.novel''.
* TheyWastedAPerfectlyGoodPlot: There're two missed opportunities readers have compalined about:
** Aayla Secura, who used to be Vos's Padawan, and even claimed that he had been like a father to her, is completely abscent from the novel, and isn't even mentioned.
** Similarly when the Council contemplates executing Vos without fair trial, they bring-up Barriss Offee's treason as an example of them having grown too placate. The fact that during the same unfortunate affair they readily sent an innocent without fair trial to the hands of the Republic Military Tribunal and very nearly to her death in an eerily similar manner to the one propsed, isn't brought up at all.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* HarsherInHindsight: The story is kicked off by the Jedi Council deciding to assasinate Count Dooku. Creator/CristopherLee, who played Dooku in ''Film/AttackOfTheClones'' and ''Film/RevengeOfTheSith'' passed away on Jun 7 2015- ''exactly a month prior to the release date of the novel''.

to:

* HarsherInHindsight: The story is kicked off by the Jedi Council deciding to assasinate Count Dooku. Creator/CristopherLee, Creator/ChristopherLee, who played Dooku in ''Film/AttackOfTheClones'' and ''Film/RevengeOfTheSith'' passed away on Jun 7 2015- ''exactly a month prior to the release date of the novel''.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


** The killing off of [[spoiler: Thlome]], a fan favorite character from the ''Legends'' EU and having the death be little more than a motivation for Vos, one that doesn't last at that.

to:

** The killing off of [[spoiler: Thlome]], a fan favorite character from the ''Legends'' EU and having the death be little more than a motivation for Vos, one that doesn't last at that.that.
* HarsherInHindsight: The story is kicked off by the Jedi Council deciding to assasinate Count Dooku. Creator/CristopherLee, who played Dooku in ''Film/AttackOfTheClones'' and ''Film/RevengeOfTheSith'' passed away on Jun 7 2015- ''exactly a month prior to the release date of the novel''.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* BaseBreaker: The Ventress/Vos romance, besides those that shipped the two with others, Ventress with Obi-wan and Vos with his EU love intrest, some just found that the romance dragged on the story.

to:

* BaseBreaker: The Ventress/Vos romance, besides those that shipped the two with others, Ventress with Obi-wan and Vos with his ''Legends'' EU love intrest, some just found that the romance dragged on the story.



** The killing off of [[spoiler: Thlome]], a fan favorite character from the EU and having the death be little more than a motivation for Vos, one that doesn't last at that.

to:

** The killing off of [[spoiler: Thlome]], a fan favorite character from the ''Legends'' EU and having the death be little more than a motivation for Vos, one that doesn't last at that.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* BaseBreaker: The Ventress/Vos romance, besides those that shipped the two with others, Ventress with Obi-wan and Vos with his EU love intrest, some just found that the romance dragged on the story.

to:

* BaseBreaker: The Ventress/Vos romance, besides those that shipped the two with others, Ventress with Obi-wan and Vos with his EU love intrest, some just found that the romance dragged on the story.story.
** Desh. With the exception of his [[spoiler: Mutual Suicide attempt]] on Vos towards the end, he does nothing that couldn't have been done by Aayla Secura, Vos' former Padawan. The fact that Aayla isn't even mentioned has also gained the ire of some fans.
** The killing off of [[spoiler: Thlome]], a fan favorite character from the EU and having the death be little more than a motivation for Vos, one that doesn't last at that.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None

Added DiffLines:

!Tropes:

* BaseBreaker: The Ventress/Vos romance, besides those that shipped the two with others, Ventress with Obi-wan and Vos with his EU love intrest, some just found that the romance dragged on the story.

Top