History YMMV / Batman

[[/folder]]

** The Joker wearing his face for a while and becoming absurdly competent was a huge offender.

** For Cassandra Cain... boyhowdy. Adam Beechen wrote her from being near mute with deep psychological dyslexic issues into someone who monologued in Navajo Code. And she took personal pleasure in killing people.
** For Tim, the time in between his life began to really suck to just recently, when it began to get better.

** Batman's ThouShallNotKill code is one of the most controversial aspects of his character. Some consider Batman's refusal to kill his enemies to be [[IfYouKillHimYouWillBeJustLikeHim the one thing that stops him from being as bad as the villains he fights]], and that it's a crucial part of who he is and what separates him from similarly dark and edgy heroes like ComicBook/ThePunisher or ComicBook/{{Wolverine}}, while also arguing that it is ultimately not up to him to decide the fate of his foes, but Gotham's. Others argue that by repeatedly entrusting villains to a justice system that's already been shown countless times to not work, Batman is indirectly responsible for every life they take when they inevitably break out of the CardboardPrison that is Arkham Asylum, and that it should be possible for him to kill the worst of his RoguesGallery without JumpingOffTheSlipperySlope. Most commonly, arguments about this are started by someone asking "Why doesn't Batman just kill The Joker already?", which often ends up in a heated debate. Some stories even touch on this debate InUniverse, like ''WesternAnimation/BatmanUnderTheRedHood''.

** The Bat Family as a concept in general is divisive amongst fans and even writers. Some love the idea of Batman having a FoundFamily and argue the various members humanize him and give him a lot more depth to him as a character outside of being a brooding loner. Others though, prefer Batman to be a lone wolf type who works alone, finding the idea of him having a "Bat Family" to be a stupid idea that goes against his very nature and dilutes his appeal compared to other heroes.

** This can also extend to "Batman and characters connected to Batman" versus "every other character DC owns who isn't Batman or connected to Batman." More or less, there's a considerable segment of DC fans who like Batman's mythos and ''only'' Batman's mythos, and DC has [[WolverinePublicity historically been alright with catering to them]], often [[SupermanStaysOutOfGotham walling Batman off from the rest of the world]] or having him [[PopularityPower make unusually large showings in crossovers]]. This often results in Batman-only fans, on a good day, treating all other characters and stories as only relevant in how they inform Batman, and on a bad day, insulting non-Batman superheroes as a bunch of ineffectual losers who are nowhere near as cool and badass as he is. Fans of other characters tend to react to this in exactly the manner you'd expect. In general, it's much less common for, say, fans of ComicBook/{{Flash}} and fans of ComicBook/GreenLantern to get mad at each other than it is for fans of either character to get mad at fans of Batman.

** For some odd reason, [[Website/FourChan /co/]] has a joke that Commissioner Gordon is an incredibly disturbed man who wants to rape Joker.

** Batman's ThouShallNotKill code is one of the most controversial aspects of his character. Some consider Batman's refusal to kill his enemies to be [[IfYouKillHimYouWillBeJustLikeHim the one thing that stops him from being as bad as the villains he fights]], and that it's a crucial part of who he is. Others argue that by repeatedly entrusting villains to a justice system that's already been shown countless times to not work, Batman is indirectly responsible for every life they take when they inevitably break out of the CardboardPrison that is Arkham Asylum, and that it should be possible for him to kill the worst of his RoguesGallery without JumpingOffTheSlipperySlope. Most commonly, arguments about this are started by someone asking "Why doesn't Batman just kill The Joker already?", which often ends up in a heated debate.
** Related to the above, audiences are split on the decision for almost every live-action iteration of Batman being allowed to kill his enemies. The comic-adherents consider it a gross misrepresentation of what Batman stands for and accuse the filmmakers involved of just making generic action films which piggyback off Batman's brand. Others are more open to Batman being a killer (at least in live-action films) since not only does the narrative structure of cinema necessitate a sense of closure that often translates to killing the BigBad, but the damage inflicted in those movies is often shown to be very permanent, with nothing in the way of time-travel or a cosmic rewrite being hinted at. Not helping matters is that ''Film/BatmanForever'' and ''Film/TheDarkKnightTrilogy'' frequently try to have their cake and eat it, showing a Batman preaching the evils of killing, only for both movies to end with him killing Two-Face and not dwelling on it.
** The Bat-Family as a concept in general is divisive amongst fans and even writers. Some love the idea of Batman having a FoundFamily and argue the various members humanize him and give him a lot more depth to him as a character outside of being a brooding loner. Others though, prefers Batman to be a lone-wolf type who works alone, finding the idea of him having an "Bat-Family" to be a stupid idea that goes against his very nature and dilutes his appeal compared to other heroes.
** In regards to the live-actions films, there has been a growing feeling among some fans that are tired of each new interpretation being a DarkerAndEdgier version of the character. While defenders will argue that this is true to what Batman should be like and that his grounded stories are the best, critics feel that more light hearted takes on Batman are just as valid and that the decision to make Batman more grounded prevents the use of Batman's more superhuman foes. Related to this is Robin, as people who prefer a darker and more realistic Batman reject the idea of Robin even appearing while those against it are more willing to accept the character, though often acknowledging that he should be reimagined to some extent for the films.

** And yet when Bruce came back, the fans still supported [=DickBats=].
** Az and [=AzBats=] for Azrael. Later became an InSeriesNickname when {{ComicBook/Nightwing}} made up the latter.

** While the yellow oval bat logo is officially called the "Bat-Insignia" (or the Bat-Symbol and Batman Symbol) by DC, fans often refer to it as the "yellow oval" or "yellow bat logo" instead, primarily to distinguish it from the black bat emblem.

* FanNickname: Fans refer to Dick as Batman only as [=DickBats=], since THE Batman is Bruce.

* NewerThanTheyThink:
** Though it's now his signature gimmick, the Scarecrow didn't use fear gas until over twenty years after his debut. In fact, in the 1940s he didn't use any artificial methods at all, and [[BadassNormal terrified people using only his wits and conventional weaponry.]]

** The Batman and The Joker's [[ArchEnemies relationship]] is one of the most iconic aspects of the Batman mythos today and you'll be hard pressed to find a modern version of Batman today that doesn't focus on them and their dichotomy in some regard. However, it is a relatively new concept in the franchise's history, as for much of the 1940s, '50s, '60s, and '70s, the Joker was treated as just another one of Batman's many foes, with no more importance than any other member of Batman's RoguesGallery. It isn't until the 1980s and the four way-punch that is ''ComicBook/BatmanTheDarkKnightReturns'', ''ComicBook/ADeathInTheFamily'', ''ComicBook/TheKillingJoke'', and most importantly, the [[Film/Batman1989 Tim Burton film]], that the now iconic Batman and Joker dynamic and their status as ArchEnemies truly began to take shape and become a central part of the Batman mythos.

* FranchiseOriginalSin:
** Batman has always been called "the world's greatest detective", but to prevent his crossovers with superhuman heroes becoming {{Story Breaker Team Up}}s, the writers inflated his intelligence and preparation abilities to help keep up. While it was odd for essentially a street vigilante to take on PersonsOfMassDestruction, the idea that a BadassNormal could take on [[DidYouJustPunchOutCthulhu much more powerful opponents]] was very appealing to read plus helped justify Batman's place in the ''Franchise/JusticeLeagueOfAmerica'' despite his low level of power. However, these match ups became common enough to reach memetic levels, making it seem like he can defeat anyone because [[ComicBook/AllStarBatmanAndRobinTheBoyWonder "I'm the goddamned Batman"]]. Now what is odd is why he ever has trouble on his home turf, which has supervillains low on the power scale at worst, let alone why his preparation abilities have [[ReedRichardsIsUseless not taken Gotham City out of being]] a WretchedHive with [[CardboardPrison repeat offenders.]]
** ComicBook/TheJoker becoming more bloodthirsty in TheSeventies was a refreshing change of pace and justified how one who was once written as a goofy prankster could be Batman's ArchEnemy. It did leave a question of Batman's (and Gotham's law enforcement in general) inability to permanently deal with the threatening clown, but this could be raised to the rest of Batman's RoguesGallery, and moments where he did something genuinely monstrous were mostly outnumbered by [[HarmlessVillain times where he was a capering loon]], which made the genuinely horrible stuff all the more surprising. However, the Joker's bloodthirsty side started to stand out a bit too much, with the actions of [[ComicBook/ADeathInTheFamily brutally murdering Jason Todd]] and [[ComicBook/TheKillingJoke crippling Barbara Gordon]], pushing him into CompleteMonster territory. Worse, stories involving him [[StupidEvil murdering people for no reason]], working in the shadows of the above two, increasingly became the norm for him, causing him to lose the WildCard excuse and a lot of his charm. Compare "The Laughing Fish", often seen as a pivotal 70s Joker story, which shows him start out with a completely absurd plan (attempting to copyright poisoned fish) and only killing people when he's angry that they don't take him seriously, with many modern stories where his entire modus operandi seems random murder from square one. As a result, a character whose gimmick was meant to be unpredictability has become notorious for his predictable stories, and a lot of fans believe that making him an exception to Batman's [[ThouShaltNotKill strict refusal to kill]] would be the more heroic stance for the Dark Knight to take.
** Batman's [[TheWoobie Woobie]] tendencies were there almost from the get-go. He witnessed his parents' murder which scarred him for life. Then the Joker was given a JerkassWoobie background in ''ComicBook/TheKillingJoke'' (although, given his MultipleChoicePast, it's questionable how much sympathy, if any, he deserves). Then ComicBook/ThePenguin got one, and then Mr. Freeze, and then... until nowadays even third string characters such as the Kite Man (!!!) must have a [[FreudianExcuse sob-story to justify their]] descent into evil.
** Batman's [[SanitySlippage tendency to lash-out]] at the rest of the Bat-Family whenever he suffered a personal loss. Starting from Jason Todd's death (which was over ''thirty years ago''), whenever someone close to him dies, his reactions are usually lashing out at whoever is near him, from Dick Grayson to even Superman. His actions are always understandable and sympathetic, but in no way depicted as in the right. Yet every time he's faced with this dilemma in modern comics, his actions get worse to the point it borders abuse[[note]]Such as beating the crap out of Dick to force him to go undercover at a time when Nightwing had been unmasked to the world and dragging Jason to the place where he first died in hopes of jogging Jason's memory of his resurrection after Damian died[[/note]], which fans and the Bat-Family themselves have [[CallingTheOldManOut definitely noticed]] on several occasions, decreasing the sympathy factor to the point that he eventually becomes a DesignatedHero.
** Bruce's emotional constipation and ControlFreak tendencies have fallen into this in recent years. This interpretation of him has been around since the 80s and has entered the public consciousness and become his primary portrayal; the issue, however, is that writers never allow him to actually ''grow'' beyond it. This and his inability to communicate and show that he actually cares for his family has been an ongoing issue for decades that no writer has tried to resolve and has made him more unsympathetic as the years go by as his militaristic treatment of them almost borders on cruelty. Thus, many fans are disillusioned with the entire concept now and believe that Bruce should just ditch the cowl, get actual therapy, and let someone else take up the mantle[[note]]Dick Grayson is often the first choice cited by fans[[/note]] instead.
** For those who consider Robin and the other members of the Bat-Family a sin, it's worth noting that Batman was only a loner for eleven months between his debut in ''Detective Comics #27'' and Robin's debut in ''Detective Comics #38. So while people might claim that Batman has and always should be a brooding loner, that stopped being true within less than a year while the Dynamic Duo lasted for decades.

* BaseBreakingCharacter:
** Jason Todd was initially so controversial that DC allowed for a fan vote to determine whether he lived or died. Ironically there were just ''barely'' more votes for him to die. There's also the rumor floating around that hundreds of votes in the "Jason Dies" line came from a single person, adding a large degree of uncertainty to the honesty of results regarding a poll designed to determine the character's popularity (and other claims that some voted for him to live only because they thought he was Dick Grayson). And surely he's got plenty of fans after [[SugarWiki/MomentOfAwesome killing a rapist]].
*** He actually is still this; fans either love him or wish there was a second phone-in vote to kill him off again. This isn't helped by his very inconsistent portrayals; some writers portray him as a very angry young man with a good reason to be furious at Bruce and who desperately wants to prove that he's a better hero than him, but has a seriously skewed moral compass and sense of what heroism actually is, while others portray him as a one-dimensional modern-day NinetiesAntiHero with a side dose of {{Wangst}}. This has gotten worse ever since the ComicBook/New52 began and the comics started portraying him in a more consistently sympathetic light with a closer (though still a bit strained) relationship with the Batfamily: Some like the idea of Jason getting some positive character development and healing from his trauma, others think that the new direction does nothing but make him a KarmaHoudini and a canon example of DracoInLeatherPants and a third group likes the concept [[TheyWastedAPerfectlyGoodPlot but finds the execution rushed and forced more than anything]].
*** It should be noted that even Creator/FrankMiller, the guy who introduced the idea of Jason Todd dying with ComicBook/BatmanTheDarkKnightReturns, felt that it was a poor decision on DC's part. Though, he just felt the call in method was crass.
** Bat-Mite. To some, he exemplifies everything wrong with UsefulNotes/{{the Silver Age|of Comic Books}}. To others, he exemplifies everything right.
** The Robins in general. Either they're audience surrogates who provide an interesting insight to what it would be like to have Batman as a father, or they're useless and dated who only serve as to hold Batman back. Dick has, fortunately, managed to shake that off by becoming Nightwing, a much more well liked hero. Notably, the bulk of the former, 'Hold Batman Back' believers tend to be fans of the films rather than Comic Fans, where their only exposure to Robin is the Sixties show or the Shumacher films. So, them seeing them as dated is an understandable, if poorly sourced, opinion.
** Stephanie Brown/Spoiler/Robin IV/ Batgirl III. Despite having a large fanbase, there's just enough people who hate her for her to qualify for this. ReplacementScrappy status aside, people either love her for being hope-filled, angstless, idealistic and generally happy, while others hate her for all these things since they don't feel it 'fits' with the rest of Gotham's protectors. There are also those who dislike her for her "incompetence" in crime-fighting prior to her becoming Batgirl (specifically during her Robin phase), but to be fair to her, this is a result of how several writers [[BadassDecay portrayed her even though she was actually perfectly capable in her initial appearances by Chuck Dixon.]] There's also the fact that both Bruce and Cass, and to a lesser extent Tim, possess CharlesAtlasSuperpower level abilities, while Steph is a realistic depiction of a BadassNormal hero. So, she's either [[AudienceSurrogate beloved for being unique and relateable]], or bashed for being [[NotBadassEnoughForFans weak, stupid, incompetent]], or accused of being TheLoad.
** Even ComicBook/TheJoker has become this. He's either a [[CrazyIsCool freakishly awesome]] and [[LaughablyEvil funny villain]] as the ArchEnemy, or he's overused and too competent to the point of being predictable. Writers who use a ''Dark Knight''-esque Joker will either have people applauding it for the same reasons as Heath Ledger's interpretation, or lambasting it for mimicking something that was never supposed to fit into mainstream comics. The New 52 version of The Joker in particular is rather polarizing as either he provides a [[CreepyAwesome very creepy]] and fascinating look into Batman or is a childishly edgy villain.
** The Riddler. Some fans find him the lamest of the big name rogues, with a [[TheMentallyDisturbed mental disorder]] (OCD) that many find dull in comparison to the others. Emphasizing him as a "technically legal" villain has since quieted some of them down. Though back in UsefulNotes/{{the Golden Age|of Comic Books}} and [[UsefulNotes/TheSilverAgeOfComicBooks Silver Age]], he actually ''was'' one of the most popular villains, since many of the other rogues who supplanted him hadn't been invented yet and he was generally more competent. This was [[LampshadeHanging lampshaded]] by Neil Gaiman in ''Whatever Happened To The Caped Crusader''; an aging Riddler comments on how back in the day he was ''the'' big threat that Batman faced, yet now he seems like small fry when you've got maniacs like the Joker around.
** Even Batman isn't inescapable of this status. Some people are sick to death of team-up stories where he's the BadassNormal who's the only one who can take down major villains while equally competent heroes he works with are taken out with little difficulty. It doesn't help under the hands of some writers [[UnintentionallyUnsympathetic he becomes a massive jerk]], often acting like a gigantic dick to both friends and family alike but constantly portrayed as being in the right, and common reactions to stories like these are fans either cheering since well, it's Batman, or groaning and outright begging to have him get taken down a peg afterwards. This has even made some fans prefer members of his supporting cast both for being more likable, or at least less moody, and more fallible than him.
*** Even among his fandom you can see a clear divide, often lining up closely with AlternativeCharacterInterpretation and [[NostalgiaFilter which stories fans grew up with]]. There is a large number of Batman fans who only know him through his darkest stories and see him as a brooding loner who should never work with other heroes at all and want his tales to dig into darkest aspects of crime and human nature. Then there are fans who enjoy the "found family" aspect of Batman and like him as a center of the rich cast of personalities that is the Batfamily and want nothing but to see this utilized to full extend and are sick of demands for constant darkness, wanting more balance and variety. Neither group really gets that well with people nostalgic for the good old days when Batman was a goofy Silver Age character, who consider darker stories an abomination and all members of Batfamily except Dick and Barbara to "not count".
** The characterization of Harley Quinn in the New 52 is very divisive, especially because of her tendency to fall under DependingOnTheWriter. Harley giving explosive presents to children and killing them vs. the very clear attempt at AdaptationalHeroism that her series fell under are the major extremes of her portrayals. The former's detractors feel that it was so darkly out of character that it should be FanonDiscontinuity while detractors of the latter feel that it's DracoInLeatherPants given canonicity. The more heroic portrayal is being applied more consistently as the series continues and fans are divided between it being a good way to make the character more sympathetic and likable or a bad direction that wasted a good villain.
** Joe Chill is another character fans can be divided on, especially when it comes to whether or not Batman should ever confront him. Some people feel he's an important TokenMotivationalNemesis whose motives should be explored and whom Batman needs to confront sooner or later in order to get closure and/or test the boundaries of how far he's willing to go for the sake of vengeance and determine once and for all whether or not he's willing to maintain his code of non-killing when confronted with his parents' murderer. On the other hand, there are many other fans who feel that the murderer of the Waynes is best left as a dark, shadowy anonymous figure whose identity is better left as a secret and that trying to humanize the character and give him a name actually diminishes him. Also, the people who are against giving the Wayne murderer an actual identity are of the opinion that if Batman does finally confront the murderer of his parents and either kills him or puts him away, then Batman's motivation and drive to fight crime will be diminished or disappear altogether since he'll have come full circle in avenging his parents' murder.
** Punchline, being the newest girl on the block, has her detractors and fans as well. Her fans are drawn to her look and her slightly different dynamic with the Joker, as she is fanatically drawn to his violence and sadism rather than loving him in spite of them like most iterations of Harley Quinn. On the other hand, her detractors see her as essentially just a [[ReplacementScrappy misogynistic, victim-blaming, "pick me" recolor of Harley]], since the reason the Joker doesn't act abusive toward her is supposedly because [[ValuesDissonance the Joker just happens to love Punchline more than he did Harley]] (which flies in the face of the facts on domestic abuse, as well as the Joker's traditional characterization and WordOfGod on his feelings toward Harley).

* YMMV/BatmanArkhamAsylum
* YMMV/BatmanArkhamCity
* YMMV/BatmanArkhamOrigins
* YMMV/BatmanArkhamKnight

!YMMV Tropes For ''Franchise/{{Batman}}''
!!Works with their own pages.

!The comics/franchise in general.
!!YMMV tropes with their own subpages.

!!Other YMMV tropes

!!Examples from specific Batman titles

[[folder:Animated films and shows]]

!!Examples from Batman in Comics

[[foldercontrol]]

[[folder:Comic Book]]

* AlternativeCharacterInterpretation: Batman has been subject to numerous alternate {{canon}} interpretations. Some depict him as a noble crusader against crime; others make him a borderline psychopath barely removed from the lunatics he spends his life fighting. And even if he's not as bad as the lunatics he fights there's still the question of whether or not Batman himself could be classified as legally insane or not.
** In recent years, it's been theorized that Batman is somewhere on the Autism spectrum, given his obsessive nature, rigid routines, high intelligence, minimal need for social interaction and lack of interest in most things that aren't tied to being Batman. His "persona" of Bruce Wayne has also drawn comparison to the concept of "masking", which is when Autistic people mask their symptoms to more closely blend in with society. Some newer interpretations have acknowledged this, by portraying Bruce as obsessive and having struggles socializing ''before'' the trauma of his parents' murders.
** One of the core issues, which underlies many of the more specific questions below, is the entire nature of his motivation. His parents were killed by a criminal, but is he more interested in getting vengeance on law-breakers, or in protecting the innocent to make sure they don't suffer the same way?
** His relationships have also come under examination; debates about his sexuality rage wildly. There are tons of easy targets for jokes about that last part.
** The various interpretations of Batman are the inspiration behind [[http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_rL1Jjp1dMY8/Sw3vRWrzweI/AAAAAAAAAxs/fMIxw0lZLo8/s1600/batman-alignment.jpg this image]] merging Batman with ''TabletopGame/DungeonsAndDragons'' Character Alignment.
** Why does Batman so rigidly adhere to his [[ThouShaltNotKill One Rule]]? Is it because he's idealistic and will spare people in hopes they can be reformed; it is arrogance because he thinks himself above his enemies and won't stoop to their level; is it restraint to stop himself from crossing a line he can't come back from; is it him in some small way honoring his surgeon father (Hippocratic oath, and all that); is it stubbornness because he won't let his enemies get a moral victory by pushing him that far; or is it delusional self-righteousness since he has no trouble inflicting physical trauma on the crooks he beats up and tells himself that's better than killing them.
** Much like the dispute of who is the true persona, Clark Kent or Franchise/{{Superman}}, one of the most raging questions about Batman concern civilian identity Bruce Wayne. Is he simply a mask that Batman wears during the day, a popular interpretation since ''ComicBook/BatmanTheDarkKnightReturns''? Or is Bruce a real person who's made the rational - [[FantasyKitchenSink within the DCU]] - decision to fight crime while dressed as a bat? The stories that most support the former view are those where Bruce most throws himself into the MillionairePlayboy act. When he tries to take an active role and takes up civic involvement in Gotham's problems, it shores up the latter interpretation.
** There's also his culpability if a BatmanGambit he prepared gets hijacked by villains, citing ''Tower of Babel'' and the Brother-Eye in particular. While a check-and-balance idea against superpowers is logical, Batman's methods of enforcing it and his continuing refusal to apologize are regarded by some as stemming from a mindset that is more self-righteous and dangerous than his BewareTheSuperman fears.
** This is strongly lampshaded in short story "Viewpoint", where newspaper publisher hires bunch of writers to give him their own interpretations of Batman in hope to make their common element - truth about Batman - more clear. He's very disappointed to find out that their visions have nothing in common.
** This is also played with in Creator/NeilGaiman's ''ComicBook/WhateverHappenedToTheCapedCrusader'' in which different characters tell stories that show ''their'' contradictory interpretations of Batman.
*** Through they all have one thing in common - in all the stories told Batman dies because he refuses to (or maybe cannot?) give up. [[spoiler: When he finally dies for real, he is reborn on another Earth, as infant Bruce Wayne, to one day become Batman once again.]]
** Another big argument about Batman is the common negative interpretation among left-wing critics (for a particularly clear and aggressive example, see the ''ComicBook/MarshalLaw'' story "Kingdom of the Blind") of the character as a "rich guy who gets his kicks beating up poor people" who does nothing to use his wealth and social power to actually improve society. This is DependingOnTheWriter, as some writers don't include anything in their works to challenge this while others depict Bruce as quietly doing a lot of charitable and political activity behind his playboy persona. Some writers just make the BigBad of the story just as rich (at least initially), or part of an AncientConspiracy, which does at least deal with the "poor" part of the criticism.
** This is {{Lampshaded}} in an episode of ''WesternAnimation/BatmanTheBraveAndTheBold'' [[TakeThat that was directed at]] the show's detractors. In it, Bat-Mite lectures a group of fanboys about how many character shifts Batman has gone through since the GoldenAge, and sums it all up by saying a Batman who goes on sci-fi adventures and cracks jokes is ''just as valid'' and true to the source material as a Batman who's [[WesternAnimation/BatmanTheAnimatedSeries a grim vigilante]] [[Film/TheDarkKnightTrilogy that slinks through alleyways while angrily screaming into the night]].
** Does the Ventriloquist suffer a split personality, a dissociative disorder, or is he right in his belief that Scarface is possessed by the ghost of every murderer hung on the gallows he was carved from? There's evidence to support all these theories, and the one that Wesker knows exactly what he's doing and Scarface is just a gimmick.
*** This one is touched upon in a subplot during the ''Comicbook/{{Knightfall}}'' storyline, in which Wesker is trying to retrieve Scarface from police custody. He uses a ''sock puppet'' as a proxy during this time, as well as a variety of other hand puppets, nearly as psychotic, if not intimidating, as Scarface himself (assuming they do have a mind of their own, that is).
** Alfred. Is he simply a devoted servant to his master, supporting his efforts to make Gotham a better place? Or is he guilty of severe child neglect, never thinking that the young Bruce maybe needed therapy to get over his parents death? By supporting Bruce in becoming Batman, does he act as an enabler, allowing Bruce to vent his near-psychotic rage out on the world's criminals? (Alfred himself actually did touch on this in one story when Commissioner Gordon had been injured and Batman refused to leave his bedside, Alfred, seeing this as the Dark Knight's obsessive quest gone too far, finally decided to resign from his service, saying "You are not a child, it is time you ceased acting like one. And it is time I stopped enabling you.")
** ComicBook/TwoFace. Tradition states that the two halves of his face represent his split personality. Normally, they have the non-scarred side represent Harvey Dent and the scarred side represent Two-Face; they give us scenes where he has a perfectly reasonable dialogue shown only in his non-scarred profile, only to flip out into ultraviolence shot entirely from his scarred side. But some writers claim the opposite is true: the non-scarred side is Two-Face, the monster with a face of an angel. The scarred side represents Harvey Dent, the wounded hero who lies crushed beneath.
*** Supported in spirit by the non-canon ''ComicBook/BatmanTheDarkKnightReturns'', in which Harvey has his face restored to full normal- and proceeds to go completely evil; scratching both sides of his coins as if he has been "consumed by his dark side." At least both sides match.
*** Moreover, prior to the 1980s Two-Face was not portrayed as a man with multiple personalities, just as someone who rejected moral responsibility and let random chance in the form of his coin make his choices for him. The multiple personalities first showed up when he got a new ComicBook/PostCrisis origin. The idea of Dent having two personalities caught on so well it's completely erased the character's first 40 years. Ironically, [[spoiler:his appearance in ''Film/TheDarkKnight'' caused some protest when it was closer to his original portrayal.]]
** The Riddler: InsufferableGenius who's obsessed with proving his superiority over Batman, or a seriously ill criminal whose compulsion to tell the truth is what drives him to leave riddles?
** ComicBook/TheJoker. Though he started off dark and creepy, he spent most of the '40s, '50s, and '60s as a [[VillainousHarlequin mostly harmless lawbreaking jester.]] Then, after Batman was remade into the dark and brooding hero he was originally, the Joker returns to his [[MonsterClown homicidal maniac]] origins; then we get to "The Killing Joke," in which he shoots Barbara Gordon (formerly Batgirl) through the spine, and then kidnaps and tortures Commissioner Gordon more or less for the hell of it. And then there was "Death in the Family" and countless other stories in which the Joker gets crazier as time goes on. Even in the movies, he has changed from one appearance to the next. TheMovie of the 1966 series portrayed him as the madman crook. Creator/JackNicholson, famous creepy maniac, portrayed him as a former gangster turned creepy maniac making the best of his deformities by incorporating them into a costume. ''Film/TheDarkKnight'''s Creator/HeathLedger appeared to be a suicidal nihilist out for nothing more thought out than causing chaos.
*** Though he's traditionally portrayed as chaotic and capable of adapting on the fly to any situation, Creator/GrantMorrison's ''Batman & Robin'' run has suggested that, in fact, the opposite is true: as AxCrazy as he is, he's been able to survive confrontations with Batman for so long because he's CrazyPrepared and ''already'' has a plan for ''everything''. And the MonsterClown persona is a façade that lets him channel his homicidal urges. At heart, he's not a MonsterClown....he's just a monster.
*** Also, does the Joker [[BreakingTheFourthWall break the fourth wall]] for comedic effect at the whim of the writers, in which case anything he says while BreakingTheFourthWall is barely canon? Or is his suggested "super sanity" giving him [[MediumAwareness canonical awareness of the reality of comic books?]] In either case, does this extend to the other adaptations? Did Nicholson's mobster-Joker go insane because of his accident causing deformity or because it let him know that we're watching his misery for entertainment?
*** If he knows that he's in a comic book, then his behavior might have been hand-waved in his own mind because his victims only exist ''to be his victims''. Even the Gordon family and other named victims are not actual people in our level of reality. Maybe the only reason he keeps committing crimes and going up against Batman is because he doesn't want the comics to end. Because then it would be like he ceased to exist. And he doesn't want to die.
*** This is supported in canon by his ongoing evolving consciousness in ComicBook/EmperorJoker. Once he’s finally so far ascended in godhood that he realizes how evil he is, he makes the only heroic decision he can: destroy the universe, reasoning that the universe has been enabling him the whole time.
*** In fact, Joker might even be said to be committing horrible crimes to get Batman involved because otherwise ''the entire world he exists in would cease!'' Joker is forced to murder, rob and prank people to save the entire universe. He's not the hero Gotham wants, but he's the villain Gotham ''needs''.
*** Does the Joker believe in the nihilist sayings he prattles on about every so often, or are they all meaningless words to him, another part of the joke intended solely to screw with the minds of the sane?
*** ''Batman: Black And White - Case Study'' by Paul Dini puts forth a particularly brilliant alternative; the Joker is completely sane. Back before the chemical vat incident, he was a crime boss who played his anonymity to the hilt in order to do whatever he wanted. Afterward, he knew that was no longer possible, so he created the "Clown Prince Of Crime" persona of ObfuscatingInsanity ''solely so he would be sent to Arkham whenever he was caught'' - he '''purposefully invented JokerImmunity!''' The doctors are ecstatic when they discover an old report claiming this - and then orderlies drag Harley Quinn past, and she comments that she wrote that report before she started counseling the Joker. The Joker drove Quinn insane to invalidate her findings once he realized that she had figured out his scheme. '''''And he left the report where it would be found just so he could YankTheDogsChain.'''''
*** Speaking of Harley, it's been suggested that their relationship isn't actually an abusive one, but [[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pTtgzTwoBi4 a consensual dom/sub dynamic]].
** Batman's refusal to kill the Joker despite all the horrible crimes he continues to commit and the Gotham City Police's apparent inability to contain and/or reform him - could it be that Batman is addicted to their conflict, the consequences be damned?
*** "Death Of The Family" puts forth an alternate take as part of a larger alternate interpretation of Gotham as a whole; namely that Batman doesn't just kill Joker because he sincerely believes that another, far more serious/competent villain would fill the void. This ties into Scott Snyder's larger idea that the ultimate BigBad of ''Batman'' isn't any of the supervillains but rather ''Gotham City itself''.

!!Examples from ''Series/{{Batman|1966}}'', the 1966 TV Series
* ''YMMV/Batman1966''
** ''YMMV/BatmanTheMovie''

!!Examples from Batman in film

* ''YMMV/TheBatmanSerial''
* ''YMMV/BatmanTheMovie''
* ''YMMV/BatmanFilmSeries''
** ''YMMV/Batman1989''
** ''YMMV/BatmanReturns''
** ''YMMV/BatmanForever''
** ''YMMV/BatmanAndRobin''
* ''YMMV/TheDarkKnightTrilogy''
** ''YMMV/BatmanBegins''
** ''YMMV/TheDarkKnight''
** ''YMMV/TheDarkKnightRises''
* ''YMMV/DCExtendedUniverse''
** ''YMMV/BatmanVSupermanDawnOfJustice''
** ''YMMV/JusticeLeague2017''
** ''YMMV/ZackSnydersJusticeLeague''
* ''YMMV/Joker2019''
* ''YMMV/TheBatman2022''

!!Examples from Batman in WesternAnimation
* ''YMMV/TheNewAdventuresOfBatman''
* ''YMMV/BatmanTheAnimatedSeries''
** ''YMMV/BatmanMaskOfThePhantasm''
* ''YMMV/BatmanBeyond''
** ''YMMV/BatmanBeyondReturnOfTheJoker''
* ''YMMV/TheBatman''
** ''YMMV/TheBatmanVsDracula''
* ''YMMV/BatmanTheBraveAndTheBold''
* ''YMMV/BatmanUnderTheRedHood''

!!Examples from Batman in VideoGames
[[folder:Trans-Franchise VG Tropes]]
* TheProblemWithLicensedGames: In general, Bats has had more luck with this than most superheroes; his first NES outing by Sunsoft is considered one of the finest NintendoHard-in-a-good-way platformers, his 16-bit games tended to be at least okay (though this is the time period which WebVideo/TheAngryVideoGameNerd found the most to object to), and the ''VideoGame/BatmanArkhamSeries'' proved that licensed games ''don't'' have to be bad. He has still had some stinkers, though (like a few of the aforementioned 16-bit era games, or the Commodore 64 game, which ''looked'' cool but was a nightmare to actually play). Then there's ''VideoGame/BatmanDarkTomorrow'', which is generally considered to be one of the worst DC Comics-inspired video games ''period''. Other Bat-titles (''Batman Begins'', ''VideoGame/BatmanVengeance'', and ''Rise of Sin Tzu'') have fallen somewhere in the middle with mixed reception.
[[/folder]]
* YMMV/BatmanArkhamAsylum
* YMMV/BatmanArkhamCity
* YMMV/BatmanArkhamOrigins
* YMMV/BatmanArkhamKnight

!!Other examples from Batman:
* YMMV/BatmanTheMusical

* NewerThanTheyThink: Though it's now his signature gimmick, the Scarecrow didn't use fear gas until over twenty years after his debut. In fact, in the 1940s he didn't use any artificial methods at all, and [[BadassNormal terrified people using only his wits and conventional weaponry.]]

*

** Stephanie Brown/Spoiler/Robin IV/ Batgirl III. Despite having a large fanbase, there's just enough people who hate her for her to qualify for this. ReplacementScrappy status aside, people either love her for being hope-filled, angstless, idealistic and generally happy, while others hate her for all these things since they don't feel it 'fits' with the rest of Gotham's protectors. There are also those who dislike her for her "incompetence" in crime-fighting prior to her becoming Batgirl (specifically during her Robin phase), but to be fair to her, this is a result of how several writers [[BadassDecay portrayed her even though she was actually perfectly capable in her initial appearances by Chuck Dixon.]] There's also the fact that both Bruce and Cass, and to a lesser extent Tim, possess CharlesAtlasSuperpower level abilities, while Steph is a realistic depiction of a BadassNormal hero. So, she's either [[AudienceSurrogate beloved for being unique and relateable]], or bashed for being [[WhatMeasureIsANonBadass weak, stupid, incompetent]], or accused of being TheLoad.

* {{Asspull}}: Batman is frequently accused of this, because of his CrazyPrepared tendencies being taken up to eleven quite often. A lot of his weirder or more “specialized” inventions and gadgets (such as the infamous [[Series/Batman1966 Shark Repellent spray]] or [[Film/BatmanAndRobin Bat-Credit card]]) are often either the result of various writers having written themselves into a corner for one reason or another and desperately needing Batman to do something miraculous to pull himself out of a situation that should logically be unwinnable under normal circumstances, or because the [[CreatorsPet writer loves]] [[RunningTheAsylum Batman and wants to make him look cool]] by making him do something seemingly impossible, no matter how little sense it makes.

** Batman himself frequently is accused of being this. Not only does DC favor him in regards to non-comic adaptations such as movies and animated shows, a disturbing amount of DC writers favor him to the point of derailing all other characters to make him look better, such as Frank Miller, Doug Moench and the writers for the new animated movies. These displays are generally hated by fans, to much mockery and portrayal of Batman as a corporate sell-out.

** With Franchise/{{Superman}} fans, though there are [[FriendlyFandoms those who miss]] the days when they were the World's Finest and respect both characters. Batman fans think Superman is an overpowered, boring one-dimensional goody two shoes and his fans are children with a lack of understanding of the world. Superman fans think that Batman is an overrated, wangsty, ineffective man-child of a CreatorsPet and that most of his fans are biased, overly-cynical jackasses that don't actually read comics and think cynicism equals realism, and whose combination of absurd wealth and CharlesAtlasSuperpower is no more or less realistic than a FlyingBrick who works a day job as a reporter.

** Batman's ThouShallNotKill code is one of the most controversial aspects of his character. Some fans respect this as one of the most crucial aspects of his character, acknowledging that his refusal to kill his enemies [[IfYouKillHimYouWillBeJustLikeHim is the one thing that stops him from being as bad as the villains he fights]]. Others argue that by repeatedly entrusting villains to a justice system that's already been shown countless times to not work, Batman is indirectly responsible for every life they take when they inevitably break out of the CardboardPrison that is Arkham Asylum, and that it should be possible for him to kill the worst of his RoguesGallery without JumpingOffTheSlipperySlope. Most commonly, arguments about this are started by someone asking "Why doesn't Batman just kill The Joker already?", which often ends up in a heated debate.

** Batman's ThouShallNotKill code is one of the most debated aspects of his character. Some fans think that his refusal to kill his enemies [[IfYouKillHimYouWillBeJustLikeHim is the one thing that stops him from being as bad as the villains he fights]] and respect this as one of the most crucial aspects of his character. Others argue that by repeatedly entrusting the villains to a justice system that's already been shown countless times to not work, knowing that they'll cause more trouble when they inevitably break out of the CardboardPrison that is Arkham Asylum, Batman is indirectly responsible for every life they take. Most commonly, arguments about this are started by someone asking "Why doesn't Batman just kill The Joker already?", which often leads to a heated debate.

* QuirkyWork: Silver-age comics are notorious for being "out there". Not unlike how Superman was often subject to {{Superdickery}} at the time, it was common for Batman's comic covers to feature Batman and Robin put in bizarre situations.