History WMG / FateStayNight

*** Monohoshizao ''is'' a noble phantasm. It was the catalyst Caster used to summon Assassin. The caveat was that the sword's actual wielder wasn't a heroic spirit, so the Grail summoned a random, nameless guy who kinda/sorta fit the legend behind the weapon (who was technically only a Wielder of the sword, rather than a User; hence his ??? ranking in Noble Phantasm). Its only special property was being absurdly long (and shows what would happen if Shiki were stupid enough to try ''blocking'' a sword with his knife...besides death by idiocy), meaning it ''is'' possible for a weapon to become a noble phantasm through fame alone, rather than special ability. This was also the case with the Houtengeki halberd...unless FateExtra counts as canon enough to retcon that (the Fate/Stay Night description says it was the only halberd to become an NP, because it was used by a famous general; Fate/Extra says it was powered by the God of War and given to [[spoiler:Lu Bu]]). If Satsujinki became famous enough to become an Assassin, his antique, signature knife would undoubtedly go along for the ride (though probably D-ranked; its special property seems to be not requiring maintenance or sharpening). But no, Satsujinki still counts far more. Shiki Ryougi's not an assassin, let alone an Assassin; she's a [[{{Determinator}} Determinating]] KnifeNut (secretly a MasterSwordsman), more of a hunter (or Saber). Stealth was never the Ryougis' game, the way it was with the Nanaya. She wouldn't have handled the events of Prelude the way Satsujinki did...i.e. sneak through his entire heavily-warded and guarded castle [[StealthRun entirely undetected]] (by the vampires ''and'' the magi assault force outside) and OneHitKill a newly-promoted Dead Apostle ''Ancestor'' so silently Louvre didn't even realize he'd been killed before death took him.

FateExtra implies the Playable Archer there is the same Archer as ''Fate/Stay Night'', and he admits he became a Counter Guardian to get the power to ''stop a nuclear meltdown''. Now, what power plant was on the verge of having just that during [[spoiler: Shirou Emiya]]'s lifetime?

Gilgamesh, among many other things, is the Hero of ''Civilization'' and the ''Original'' King, from an era before Mankind and Gaia entered in conflict. As such, he realized immediately that the current civilization is an abomination that [[AngelNotes will kill Earth itself]], killing Humanity in the process, and was trying to stop that by expressing a wish to the Corrupted Grail to tear down modern civilization and make Earth recover, use one of his many Noble Phantasms to make sure the Corrupted Grail did ''exactly'' what he wished and then stop it (dismantling would be done later), and then lead the surviving Humans create a greater civilization that would never risk killing Earth again.
Sadly, knowledge that most everyone would call him crazy prevented him from searching allies (that and he probably didn't know that he had a natural ally even stronger than him in [[VisualNovel/{{Tsukihime}} Arcueid]], nor that Arc would bring a killer of everything with herself), and his pride prevented him from taking anyone seriously enough to kill or neutralize them immediately, resulting in his death in all routes... And Earth's death by the time of ''AngelNotes''.

[[WMG:The future where Archer came back from is that of ''FistOfTheNorthStar'' AfterTheEnd]]

Think about it for a bit, and it kind of makes sense: Emiya Shirou wished for a world in which he can become the greatest hero, didn't he now? It was said that the HolyGrail, being the JackassGenie that it is, instead turned the world into one consumed by fire and warfare. The world of ''FistOfTheNorthStar'', set some twenty years after our present day, is one so torn by nuclear fire that society has degenerated into medieval feudalism, and a ''complete'' (thank Buddah) lack of Firearms meant that Martial Artists and Warriors had a place in the world once more (thank Buddah again). In this future medieval world, only Great Warriors with martial supremacy like Kenshiro could topple omnipotent maniacs like Souther: Shirou could very well have turned out to be one of the unsung heroes besides Kenshiro who has saved a Kingdom, but like the BruceLeeClone has lost EVERYTHING in the process of doing so. Taking one bitter look at the fallout-covered wasteland around him, is it any wonder he would come to regret the wish that made the world this way?

*** None taken at all (being offended didn't occur to me, honestly). Still, I'm saying that's a really unlikely prospect. We know Archer's motivations; he contracted himself to the world to save people and was executed. He died confused, but without as many regrets. His insanity-inducing regrets didn't come about until he'd been forced to kill and witness death and destruction that he could do absolutely nothing about over and over and over again...much later than his actual death and any prospective apocalypse he may have caused. Again, not saying that a wish on the Grail couldn't have brought about the FistOfTheNorthStar verse (if Shirou failed to stop whoever it was, and went about saving people AfterTheEnd prospective-Archer style), just that it's really unlikely that Shirou himself was the cause.
* On a different but related tangent... if Servants are actually '''massively-powered-up''' reincarnated heroes from both the past (like Saber-chan is) '''and''' the future (like Archer is), and if the VisualNovel/FateStayNight - verse is crossed over with the FistOfTheNorthStar - verse... Imagine how practically '''already-won''' a Grail War would be for a master who has someone like Souther, Raoh or ''Kenshiro'' as a servant... oh even Saber-chan (much as I love her and wanna hug her all day long) would be '''so''' fucked at that point.

** Ah, you have not seen the second ''FistOfTheNorthStar'' TV series or the ''Shin Kyuseishu Densetsu'' movies of yet, in that case. He does the energy beams in the former and the blinding-speed in the fifth movie (''Kenshiro Den'') of the latter.

That said, combined with the fact that when lacking a catalyst, you summon a servant with a similar personality, that would at the very least make it possible for him to summon an IdiotHero. Or, maybe a hero with a sword fetish. Of the former, I'm thinking [[TearsToTiara Arthur]] just for laughs, seeing as he's technically the same person as Saber, only not exactly? Conjures up a [[HoYay very bad]] [[{{squick}} mental image]] for what happens when the guy runs out of mana, though...

** She probably won't - her contract with the world was that she would get the Grail ''before'' she died, meaning that she can never become a Heroic Spirit until she gets it. In Fate route (and possibly UBW good), she gives up attempting to get it for good and thus effectively nullifies the contract and moves on (then Realta Nua?). In the other routes, she'll probably just stay in the {{Nasuverse}}'s version of limbo until the system dies or she gets it - in which case she ''would'' become a Heroic Spirit. Heroes have to have some unfinished desire to be part of that system (even if they don't explicitly make a contract), such as to keep fighting worthy opponents or get everything or conquer the world, etc.

*** Darn you, NasuVerse continuity. Isn't the chance to get a wish the whole reason Servants are fighting at all? I was under the impression that ''last'' Servant to survive was able to do so, if they could slip the Command Seal of their Master.

** ...doesn't the existence of the Second Magic (or hell, the [[{{Multiverse}} very nature]] of the {{Nasuverse}}) contradict all of this? Or at least the existence of Fate/Hollow Ataraxia and Realta Nua: Last Episode? The fact that there are three timelines to begin with (none of which are Archer's) means that a paradox is flat-out impossible. Also, what's so paradoxical about Shirou's UBW? He specifically points out in the incantation that the reason he can do it is because he's faced the embodiment of his future ("Withstood pain to create weapons, waiting for one's arrival") and firmly rejected hopelessness while embracing his ideals ("I have no regrets, this is the only path"). Sounds like a pretty good prelude to projecting your soul on the surrounding area...

** [[Manga/GalaxyExpress999 Maetel]]: apart the space train, the fact she's the calm sister never prevented her from [[EarthShatteringKaboom blowing up a few planets]], and we don't want to risk she gets pissed off enough.

Kirei wanted Lancer to gather information about Servants but he couldn't figure who this guy. He was probably with Gilgamesh who directly knew he was a faker hence why he calls him that in UBW despite never having meet him. So Gil probably told Kirei to make Lancer end the fight.

*** Well, you're probably right about Sakura (in terms of "not being {{Badass}} enough"), but she's like that for a ''reason''. It would not make sense, given her situation, for her to be fighting, because the worms mean that she cannot fight only for herself. If she fights, she's fighting for ''Zouken'', with all the potential bad things that that entails, and thus it makes sense for her to reject doing so, especially with Shirou involved. Further, whilst I'd agree that she's not "{{Badass}}", she is also ''not'' defined solely by being a {{Woobie}}. She has her own personality, with her own strengths and weaknesses, just like everyone else, and she is actually a ''very'' strong girl. Plus, she shows in HF (when Rin confronts her and threatens Shirou) that she is ''perfectly'' willing to fight provided she has a cause to fight ''for''. It's just that her lack of self-confidence, her self-loathing and the fact that she can't fight for herself without risking harming others (due to Zouken's power over her) means that she ''chooses'' not to. As for Saber, the argument you gave applies equally the other way. If ''Saber'' is blameless for what happened in HF, then so is Sakura. So, if some idiot Saber fan is going to come on and complain about Sakura turning into a "mass-murdering abomination" to try to justify not caring about her, then I don't see anything wrong with pointing out that Saber was ''supporting'' her....

Since, while in the myths, Arthur's reign must have lasted a couple generations, in the Nasuverse, Saber only ruled for ten years, a time way too brief for the Knight of the Lake to have a son, for him/her to grow up and become strong and able to do enough feats during Camelot's golden age to enter the Throne of Heroes. One way to get around it is the Mordred method. As we know, Mordred is an Homunculus created by Morgan Le Fay using Saber's essence she got during one of Merlin's antics, in order to get the throne. We all know how that ended, but how about someone created one the same way, this time, using Lancelot? Galahad became a Knight of the Round, but, unlike Mordred, didn't fall from grace.

* [[PhoenixWrightAceAttorney OBJECTION!]] [[LawOfDisproportionateResponse Sakura's shadow magic]] [[ITakeOffenseToThatLastOne is most definitely]] ''[[ITakeOffenseToThatLastOne not]]'' AllThereInTheManual (unless you never played either of the games, nor watched the anime).

...and a Movie adaptation of ''Fate'', bringing the anime adaptations full circle

*** A 'canon' ending would only mean the storyline they build sequels out of. Judging by {{Tsukihime}}/Kagetsu Tohya (which ''supposedly'' follows Satsuki's normal end, which she seems to be dead in) mashing together plot points from all the other routes, it seems likely that they would pick and choose details for what is the final confirmed final end. Stuff like Shirou/Saber, Archer revealed, maybe some stuff about Zouken and a hint into Sakura's backstory while confirming that it's not going to continue.

* Rather than being bad endings period, the Fate and UBW routes are bad endings for Sakura. In them, she ends up becoming one of the [[{{Tsukihime}} 27 Dead Apostle Ancestors]] because she ends up succumbing to the Shadow. Eventually, this leads to Shirou having to kill her. Awwww....

[[WMG: The Ultimate Assassin would be [[{{Tsukihime}} Satsujinki.]]]]

[[WMG: The Emiya gland is even more powerful than the [[{{Tsukihime}} Tohno gland]], and gets stronger with age.]]

* Hey, don't leave [[{{Tsukihime}} Shiki]] out either.

Sadly, knowledge that most everyone would call him crazy prevented him from searching allies (that and he probably didn't know that he had a natural ally even stronger than him in [[{{Tsukihime}} Arcueid]], nor that Arc would bring a killer of everything with herself), and his pride prevented him from taking anyone seriously enough to kill or neutralize them immediately, resulting in his death in all routes... And Earth's death by the time of ''AngelNotes''.

[[WMG: The reason Ea is so powerful is because it taps into [[TengenToppaGurrenLagann Spiral Energy]]]]

[[WMG: The Third Grail War took place during the events of ''IndianaJonesAndTheLastCrusade'']]

She has sword skill comparable to that of some of the most fearsome of warriors; all she's lacking in the Fifth War are having previously died and a good enough dose of the OlderIsBetter mechanic. The Tora-Shinai would be her Noble Phantasm.

* Sloth : Puts other Servants/Sins and their masters in a catatonic state. Demons of this class wield bows and arrows

* Gluttony : Devours Servants/Sins to become stronger. Demons of this class do not wield any weapon, as they do not need one.

* Wrath : Demons of this class are sort of a mix between Saber and Berserker Servants.
* Sloth : Puts other Servants/Sins and their masters in a catatonic state.
* Pride : Reflects magical attacks.
* Gluttony : Devours Servants/Sins to become stronger.
* Lust : Seduces other beings into doing their bidding.
* Envy : Mimics other Servants/Sins' abilities, making demons of this class potentially the most dangerous.
* Greed : Steals abilities from other Servants/Sins and their Masters.

* Envy : Mimics other Servants/Sins' abilitie, making demons of this class potentially the most dangerous.

* Envy : Mimics other Servants/Sins, making demons of this class potentially the most dangerous

So, yeahh, that's basically it. There is only one demon of each class per Holy Grail war, just like Servants. Feel free to suggest improvements if you want.

I know, sounds a bit like a stretch, but hey, it's called Wild Mass Guessin for a reason. As fo the demon classes' powers, I came up with this :

So, yea, that's basically it. There is only one demon of each class per Holy Grail war, just like Servants. Feel free to suggest improvements if you want.