History WMG / FateStayNight

* At least one [[GirlsLove Rin/Saber]] Fanfic genderbended ''everyone'' that lived in Arthurian times.

** [[Anime/QueenEmeraldas Emeraldas]], Maetel's irascible sister: we don't want to risk and find out why the one who blows up planets is the calm sister. Also, she has a huge combat spaceship.

*** Honestly, I don't think the reason Sakura may not be as popular as the rest is about blame. Personally, I think we have a WhatMeasureIsANonBadass issue here. We've seen Rin and Saber kick ass a lot, and Ilya gets points for the weird mix of cuteness and hilarious insanity she is. But Sakura's entire character is about her Woobie-ness. Personally, I think you need other aspects to make a character likeable before turning them into a Woobie. To me, Sakura felt kinda lacking in that department, and of course, that whole mess with Saber being turned evil for her didn't help, either. On that note, Saber Alter's loyalty. Dunno about that. To me, it always seemed like the corruption left her with her memories and basic personality intact, but changed her very nature. So, in other words, evil was forced into her personality. If Sakura is blameless, then Saber's only fault was not being able to avoid being sucked into the shadow.

[[WMG: The CharacterAlignment in the VisualNovel/FateStayNight universe is what the characters themselves believe it to be.]]

** Possibly jossed. Apparently Gilgamesh was a JerkWithAHeartOfGold in ''Anime/FatePrototype'' and his ChaoticGood status apparently carried over from there.
* And the real answer is a bit different. It's the good/evil axis which defines how people see them - Gilgamesh was seen as a "good" ruler, therefore his alignment is "good"; Kojirou was seen as a "bad" person due to being a "bad rival" to a seemingly-good Musashi, therefore he is "evil"; Cu Chulainn was primarily a warrior and thus wouldn't be seen as "good" nor as "evil"; ; Medusa is a weird case, but there are many legends of her so we can't just go with the most popular one and mark her as "evil" from the get-go. And the lawful/chaotic axis defines how nice of a person they are (not strongly, but still) and whether they are more about "independence" and "selfishness" or rather about keeping to non-written rules and thinking about others - Arturia is lawful because she sticks to her code of "chivalry" and has a wish which is all about her country; Lancer is lawful because of all the geasa he accepted to help others and because of his moral code which made him Culann's substitute guard dog in his life; True Assassin is lawful because, well, being a part of an organised group which made him forgo his identity completely, it's easy to see the reason; Gilgamesh is chaotic because for all his skill at ruling, he was still a "I'll do whatever I want" sort of selfish person, to the point where the gods created Enkidu to stop him; Berserker is more "chaotic" than he would be "good" or "bad" (that's why it's this one that got substituted with "insane"), and considering how Heracles was doing pretty much everything in his legends it's not hard to see the reason; Caster is neutral because she was trying to abide to the rules but the Greek gods made her act otherwise, cementing her place between the two extremes; Assassin is similar in that, as he was not extreme enough in his actions to get out of the "neutral" territory; and Rider is chaotic which is or is not true depending on the legend.

I know, sounds a bit like a stretch, but hey, it's called Wild Mass Guessing for a reason. As fo the demon classes' powers, I came up with this :
* Wrath : Demons of this class are sort of a mix between Saber and Berserker Servants. As such, they wield swords, obviously.
* Sloth : Puts other Servants/Sins and their masters in a catatonic state. Demons of this class wield bows and arrows.
* Pride : Reflects magical attacks. Demons of this class wield polearms, such as spears and halberds.
* Gluttony : Devours Servants/Sins to become stronger. Demons of this class do not wield any weapon, because they do not need one.
* Lust : Seduces other beings into doing their bidding. Demons of this class attack with magical bullets, à la Caster.
* Envy : Mimics other Servants/Sins' abilities, making demons of this class potentially the most dangerous. They also wield daggers.
* Greed : Steals abilities from other Servants/Sins and their Masters. Because of this, demons of this class wield no weapon either, seeing as they mimic that of their opponents.

*

Saber refers to her time with Shirou as a 'dream', and upon returning to her time says to Bedivere that she had been dreaming. Bedivere and her then discuss continuing a dream after it has ended, with Saber asking if you can pick up a dream where it left off when you fall back to sleep. Bediveire says yes, if you want it enough. Saber then says "my slumber this time will be a long one", and dies. Also Shirou's "I reach out for you but you aren't there"/"...we may grasp what we are reaching for" lines are sort-of telling. The last words spoken in the anime are "Are you dreaming now, King Arthur? Are you still dreaming the same dream?", or words to that effect, thus opening up the possibility that she may return to Shirou's time. Note that this is a question, so its open-ended whether or not she returns, but is still a salve for the tears of upset fans :)

This is the reason why you as the player must complete all five routes of Fate in order to see the final ending, because Shirou is archer, the continuity of possible outcomes must be completely fulfilled and Archer must die in all of the possible endings for him to be reunited with Saber.
* Uh...no, dude, he's not. Archer became a Counter Guardian, he's in the Counter Force, and even he knows that there's no way out of it. Since Last Episode is Fate's DistantFinale, Fate!Shirou is the one who eventually reunited with Saber. And there are ''three'' routes in ''Fate/stay night'', not five.

** You're quite right: ''It wasnt.'' In ''Fate Unlimited Blade Works'' (Soon to be adapted into a movie released in Imax in January), all Shirou wanted to be was "The Greatest Hero Ever." The Grail, however, is the kind of JackassGenie that warps the wording of your wish so all that you get is the ''result'', spirit be damned. What that evil artefact did was turn the world into a war-torn hellhole (it was not specified ''how''), thereby '''forcing''' Shirou to become the Legendary Hero [[spoiler: Archer]] just to save it. And then he travelled back in time to set things right...

*** None taken at all (being offended didn't occur to me, honestly). Still, I'm saying that's a really unlikely prospect. We know Archer's motivations; he contracted himself to the world to save people and was executed. He died confused, but without as many regrets. His insanity-inducing regrets didn't come about until he'd been forced to kill and witness death and destruction that he could do absolutely nothing about over and over and over again...much later than his actual death and any prospective apocalypse he may have caused. Again, not saying that a wish on the Grail couldn't have brought about the Manga/FistOfTheNorthStar verse (if Shirou failed to stop whoever it was, and went about saving people AfterTheEnd prospective-Archer style), just that it's really unlikely that Shirou himself was the cause.
* On a different but related tangent... if Servants are actually '''massively-powered-up''' reincarnated heroes from both the past (like Saber-chan is) '''and''' the future (like Archer is), and if the VisualNovel/FateStayNight - verse is crossed over with the Manga/FistOfTheNorthStar - verse... Imagine how practically '''already-won''' a Grail War would be for a master who has someone like Souther, Raoh or ''Kenshiro'' as a servant... oh even Saber-chan (much as I love her and wanna hug her all day long) would be '''so''' fucked at that point.

*** Save for the fact that this is the Holy Grail we're talking about, not Final Fantasy XI.

** We actually don't know how power-up they are. It's mentioned that a lot of them retain similar strength to when they were alive. These are people who would go around doing things like killing dragons (saber) during their life.

*** You're acting like Kenshiro is invincible in terms of skill and Servants could only beat him with physical superiority. This is not true. In the first place, he comes from a markedly lower-tier world compared to the Fate franchise in terms of power level; there's nothing to suggest that he's more skilled than any Servant aside from the Casters. There are multiple Servants who literally warp reality out of sheer skill and/or badassery. Each and every combat-specialized Servant is at least a match for Kenshiro in every aspect of martial prowess. Besides, Servants are made of prana. They have no vital organs aside from the brain and heart, and they practically can't die from blood loss, nerve manipulation, pressure points or anything of the sort -- Kuzuki ripped Saber's throat out and she recovered within a minute. The Hokuto Shinken is useless against them, except Gilgamesh and perhaps Saber (who actually have physical bodies).

* Well, that's the key, isn't it? ''Eventually''. Archer started out as idealistic as Shirou, after all, but found out that things weren't that convenient eventually. Sooner or later he probably got forced into a position where he couldn't choose at all. Anyway, it's been a while since I played the VN, but as far as I remember Shirou didn't destroy the ''true'' grail (which isn't even touched upon outside of Heaven's Feel), he merely escaped from the mud using Avalon and closed the conduit between the true grail and Ilya -- but that's just semantics. Anyway, I don't know if this is even WMG because Realta Nua gives Fate Shirou a very non-Archer-like ending (either that or he's undergoing [[Anime/NeonGenesisEvangelion Instrumentality]], because as we all know you can't have a WMG [[Main/EveryoneIsJesusInPurgatory page without name-dropping that one]]).

*** No, no no no no, that's because Archer isn't the main character and thus aren't entitled to Main/DeusExMachina copouts when pushed against the wall. In all seriousness, though, Archer knows what Avalon is, which only Fate Shirou knows. It's also stated in the side materials that he had to live through Ilya wasting away and dying after the Fifth Holy Grail War ended due to her homunculus anatomy, something which again only will happen to Fate Shirou.

*** There's a difference between Main/DeusExMachina and Main/ChekhovsGun...
*** There's no real reason that the three stories presented are the only three possible ways the story unfolded. After all, FHA follows a different continuity altogether, the details of which are not entirely clear.

* My current theory is that Archer is form "Bad End 30". This ending has Shirou throw away his emotion to become a hero, and allows Rin to murder Sakura for the greater good. Kotomine prophesizes that Shirou will easily kill all the other Masters, even Rin, because he is dedicated to a higher goal now. This sounds an awful lot like Archer. And in order to defeat Servants, Shirou would probably need to master his projection magic and reality marble, making him dangerously close to Archer by the end of the Holy Grail War.

** Its pretty simple: Each archer is a separate archer. Why does Heaven's Feel's Archer decide that Shirou isn't worth killing? Because he is in the very least has enough faith in him self to believe that he could be talked out of a bad idea. Which is much more in line with a Shirou who had a somewhat gratifying life that came to a tragic end despite having been satisfied for a while: Say, Unlimited Blade works Shirou living a happy life with Rin, but succumbing to whatever catastrophe that made him a counter-guardian due to him being too nice, and suffering through thousands of years of major catastrophes where he has no choice but to sacrifice someone for the greatest good, or what would be his own personal hell. Whereas Unlimited Blade works Shirou could easily be a Fate route archer who didn't say faithful to saber, and thus didn't reach Avalon. Fates archer is rather reminiscent of what an Illya route Shirou could have been. Ultimately, he regrets his mistake, and he accepts his new past self when he sees that his intervention has prevented him from wasting himself on Illya. This is reinforced by the fact that its implied that archer would have been able to remember anything that happened in a grail war due to being a counter guardian, Thus, he would be able to cite a good 4-5000 routes by the time Heavens Feel came around, and would have gotten smart enough to completely avert any of the routes. In Heavens feel, hopefully, the cycle was broken (Or, at least, that Shirou produced a timeline where Shirou staying faithful to Saber would be viable. Thus, breaking the cycle.)

* In the final Dojo (the hot spring scene), when summarizing the game, Illya explicitly said that Shiro will likely not become Archer in the Fate route, since she will stay by his side and help him. I think it's pretty clear from the original game that Archer came from Shiro in UBW route's true end?

Furthermore, Archer tells Shirou in UBW, that he one lost an arm by projection, but in none of the routes Shirou loses his arm by projection. It only is swallowed by the shadow. And it is highly unlikely that HF Shirou or UBW Shirou would do that. Because Fate Shirou has not figured out really anything about projection after the route, he is the only one who probably would lose his arm. Other remarks of Archer would make one assume that he knows of the different routes (one in particular on UBW). So in conclusion, Archer has knowledge he could only have if he lived though more than one route. So why should he not have lived through a bunch of routes?

* According the Side Materials (which might not be considered strictly canon) both Bedivere and Mordred [[DudeLooksLikeALady are male]]. In Bedivere's case it might be intentional to help maintain the illusion that a very pretty girl is in fact really a man.
* Chestplate. There is a limit to WSoD. Her Chestplate is FAR from masculine. Basically, her whole storyline, in fact, all of the Heroic Spirit's back-stories, are up for grabs. Why? ARCHER LIED. The other's are capable of it, and with the exceptions of False Assassin and Lancer, have the potential to do so given reason as well. I find it hard to believe those two would, though, it's stressing their moral code. And Berserker might fit in that trio as doubts ensue over his grasp of the concept of the lie. Sabre, Gilgy, Assassin, Caster, Rider, who knows who they really are?
** We do. There's an omniscient narrator telling us their identities. Besides, Hollow Ataraxia confirms that Servants do not lie as a rule. Not that they can't, but if you were an ancient hero of legend summoned in this world to fight for your last wish, would you disgrace yourself by lying, especially about your identity? Morals aside, they all - except Archer - have a sense of ''pride''.

* There's no way he would do that - LightNovel/FateZero shows that his only pleasure in life is the misery of others, a tainted grail is ''the'' perfect tool to create that. In Heaven's Feel, it's revealed that his chief purpose was to try to let Angra Mainyu be born through it (for various reasons). Also, he never lies as a rule - he just withholds anything that he's not specifically asked about. This is just as devastating, and it's far more amusing once he says "you never asked".

** Oh, good. Now we've [[{{Rule34}} opened the doors]] for a Gendo/Kirei SlashFic.

** StableTimeLoop There is no original timeline. Rin always summons Archer.

*** Archer says he doesn't have Shiro's memories in their fight at the Einzbern Castle during UBW. It's fully possible he's lived all the paths and simply doesn't have all the memories because of his existence on the throne of heroes.

* Waver Velvet (Rider's master from Fate/Zero, the 4th war) shuts down and dismantles the grail system after the 5th war, so even in Fate and UBW there aren't going to be any more Holy Grail Wars.

*** A 'canon' ending would only mean the storyline they build sequels out of. Judging by VisualNovel/{{Tsukihime}}[=/=]Kagetsu Tohya (which ''supposedly'' follows Satsuki's normal end, which she seems to be dead in) mashing together plot points from all the other routes, it seems likely that they would pick and choose details for what is the final confirmed final end. Stuff like Shirou/Saber, Archer revealed, maybe some stuff about Zouken and a hint into Sakura's backstory while confirming that it's not going to continue.

*** True. Since ''VideoGame/MeltyBlood'' has Nero and Roa (instad of SHIKI), it would probably be a "Near Side" route, and so explain Arcueid's presence in the real world of Kagetsu Tohya (aw, man, I hope that doesn't mean Satsuki's True ending is like Ciel's Good one). If nothing else, ''VideoGame/MeltyBlood'' would follow Kagetsu Tohya simply due to the weight of all the [[ShoutOut Shout Outs]]. That would make, say, Hisui's and Kohaku's Arc Drives make a lot more sense. As for what this means for VisualNovel/FateStayNight...maybe the "canon" route really belongs to Ilya or Taiga!

** Just out of curiosity, but exactly where is this (that stuff about the grail system being dismantled) shown or mentioned? Is it in Fate/Zero, Hollow Ataraxia, or some other source?

* um..., doesn't Zouken die in UBW? I'm pretty sure Shinji uses Gil to kill him.

*** considering that the Hassans are the origin of the word assassin, they may very well be considered heroic spirits due to the fact that they are remembered and still often referenced, if unintentionally.

*** The Hassans are the only Assassin's possibly because a 'true' Assassin would never be caught or his identity revealed. Yet, in order to be a Heroic Spirit you need an identity to be worshipped or at least known. Therefore, they Hassan clan which pretends that all their heads are the same person are the only people who can qualify. Correct me if I'm wrong, but one of the notes for True Assassin says that one of his abilities makes him quite far from a normal, traditional hero, as expected of an assassin.

** When ? Where ? If it's said outside a VN or an official source (for example, in an interview), DeathOfTheAuthor might be required.

Crack theory, based entirely on an entry on the main [[VisualNovel/FateStayNight Fate/Stay Night page]], the fact that Sakura [[AllThereInTheManual apparently uses shadow magic]], the fact that [[VideoGame/MeltyBlood Wallachia]] who Altrouge helped create used something very much like [[ElementalPowers shadow magic]], and the simple fact that [[OCStandIn we know so little about Altrouge]].

** There has only been one successful child born from a cross between a True Ancestor and a human. It's mentioned in Kagetsu Tohya, I believe where Shiki is chatting with the Crimson Moon while sleeping next to Arcueid. I was under the impression that that child was Altrouge, who would therefore not have had a child with a human to continue the whole 'only one child from that mix' thing.

* You do realise Emiya has C rank knowledge in Magic and you need A rank MGI knowledge or is it A Rank AGI? But then considering who Caster(Fate/Zero) was I guess Emiya can be a Caster.

** Not really. Shirou has never built so much as a Bounded Field in his life (the one around the Emiya residence is Kiritsugu's work), and there is no suggestion that he became better at it growing up (Archer never shows any such skill). His Territory Creation skill would be either E- or EX-ranked, depending on whether we count UBW (which would still be his NP equivalent, not a passive skill) as part of it the way they do it in Apocrypha (Semiramis' and Spartacus' NPs affecting their stat sheets).

*** Skill in riding is a passive bonus to Saber's, probably because they're one of the knight classes. It's like Assassin's having presence concealment or Archer's having independent action.
*** Arthuria's "mount" as Rider would obviously just be [[Film/MontyPythonAndTheHolyGrail a pair of coconuts Shirou's forced to bang together.]]

*** Even if there's nothing inherently special about Shiki's knife to begin with (pretty sure there's something odd about it, even if it's not on the level of a conceptual weapon), it almost certainly would be if it were associated with him (thus, the tool of a heroic spirit). As for "not that agile"...he slices and dices Arcueid into seventeen pieces in a matter of seconds, and he can FlashStep (hell, "Chokushi Nanaya" relies on it); his attack and movement speed are ''insane''. Even before he becomes Satsujinki, when he's easily on the level of the also-A-ranked True Assassin. Beings relying on "pure point blank fighting" pretty much describes every servant except Archer and Caster, and assuming servant spirits aren't too "weird" for Shiki's eyes to read if he becomes one himself, his physical attacks are potentially anywhere from instakills to [[LightNovel/FateZero Gae Buidhe]]-style incapacitation (without the caveat of the wounds healing if he dies). Also, other assassins' one-hit kills don't usually have the added utility bonus of working on any physical object and even some concepts. He'd be an incredible assassin, and probably able to at least hold his own in a lot of physical combat (especially since, even if he lacks attack range, he's still incredibly tough to kill).

*** Monohoshizao ''is'' a noble phantasm. It was the catalyst Caster used to summon Assassin. The caveat was that the sword's actual wielder wasn't a heroic spirit, so the Grail summoned a random, nameless guy who kinda/sorta fit the legend behind the weapon (who was technically only a Wielder of the sword, rather than a User; hence his ??? ranking in Noble Phantasm). Its only special property was being absurdly long (and shows what would happen if Shiki were stupid enough to try ''blocking'' a sword with his knife...besides death by idiocy), meaning it ''is'' possible for a weapon to become a noble phantasm through fame alone, rather than special ability. This was also the case with the Houtengeki halberd...unless ''VideoGame/FateExtra'' counts as canon enough to retcon that (the Fate/Stay Night description says it was the only halberd to become an NP, because it was used by a famous general; Fate/Extra says it was powered by the God of War and given to [[spoiler:Lu Bu]]). If Satsujinki became famous enough to become an Assassin, his antique, signature knife would undoubtedly go along for the ride (though probably D-ranked; its special property seems to be not requiring maintenance or sharpening). But no, Satsujinki still counts far more. Shiki Ryougi's not an assassin, let alone an Assassin; she's a [[{{Determinator}} Determinating]] knife user (secretly a MasterSwordsman), more of a hunter (or Saber). Stealth was never the Ryougis' game, the way it was with the Nanaya. She wouldn't have handled the events of Prelude the way Satsujinki did...i.e. sneak through his entire heavily-warded and guarded castle [[StealthRun entirely undetected]] (by the vampires ''and'' the magi assault force outside) and OneHitKill a newly-promoted Dead Apostle ''Ancestor'' so silently Louvre didn't even realize he'd been killed before death took him.
*** Let me put it this way, how does Shiki defeat ANY of the other servants in an open fight? Vampire's big thing is they're near immortality and the fact that they are incredibly hard to kill. Shiki IS the perfect assassin against them, as he's agile, quick, quiet, has very little prana for them to sense, and can kill ANYTHING with a single stab if hes given a second to gain an understanding of it. He's basically a glass cannon fighting mighty glaciers. The problem is, while servants do have healing magic thats not really meant to help them win a fight but just to help restore them after a fight, they themselves are also glass cannons...its just they're cannons are bigger then a knife. In short how does Shiki defeat Berserker/heroic spirit Heracles? Berserker moves at 50-60km per hour, swings a sword the size of a person so fast it can break the sound barrier, and his point of death is probably a foot taller then Shiki is. Shiki runs into the same problem with basically every single servant. Mind you, he'd be absolute death to every master...if he could get close to them, but as you yourself pointed out, he wouldn't be a true assassin, and wouldn't get the proper presence concealment bonus that True Assassin has, so he probably wouldn't be able to slip by servants.

*** Looking at the qualifications for being a specific class of Servant Satsujinki could also qualify being a Rider, and a Beserker. He'd qualify being a Rider because they are considered to be close combat [[LightningBruiser Speed Bruisers]] or [[FragileSpeedster Fragile Speedsters]] compared to other classes which any Shiki definantly is and also Satsujinki most likely has one of Nevar's familiars permanently grafted to his body (that he could potentially control after a few years of practice) making him more affiliated with beasts, though he doesn't have any particularly powerful ability except his Mystic Eyes. He'd qualify being a Beserker because the qualifications to becoming a Beserker is that hero had to have gone beserk or completely lost it at least once in his life (and was known for doing it) so his Nanaya Mode moments for killing Acrueid and Nevar and whoever else pushing him into this Beserk state qualifies him automatically. I would've said Lancer but he doesn't use anything that remotely counts as a lance. Lastly Shiki can become a Heroic Spirit because he is unique with an exceptionally rare ability so the World won't pass over any truly recognizably heroic deeds that would qualify him in modern times because "anyone could've done that with enough practice" since his eyes are too unique to pass up.

Looking at the flowchart, on Heaven's Feel, you can get Rin and Saber points, despite them having no effect on anything in that route. Obviously originally there weren't exact "routes" so to speak. Instead the story flowed depending on the choices you made, narrowing down onto a "route." Ultimately resulting in one of the endings currently in the game. (Or maybe even more, like say, for example, getting enough Saber points in HF might have given her a better ending for her...) In the actual released game, the only remaining sign of this is the one Bad Ending you can get in Fate that shifts you into Unlimited Blade Works.
* I dunno, Tsukihime has something similar (it's possible to get Akiha points when you're firmly in the Near Side routes)...but damned if I can explain, so why not?

*** How many actually had a wish? Saber, True Assassin, Caster in FZ (until he decided his wish already came true) [[strike:Caster]] Caster if she didn't decide while dying that she didn't need it... A lot of them actually explicitly state that they ''don't'' care about it, like Rider (LightNovel/FateZero), both Lancers, both Archers, Assassin. One Berserker obviously didn't care, the other wanted to protect Ilya, Rider in FSN was protecting Sakura... The Magi are wrong, the Servants seem to want to hang out a lot more than they actually care about living again or anything. Lancer even says specifically says that a real hero is satisfied with their life and would not care about fixing anything or living again.

What if he succeeded in getting his wish granted, and part of his wish was that it would not be possible to undo it. Therefore, the Holy Grail he used to wish ceasing to exist. After that, magi of Tohsaka, Zohken, and Einzbern teaming up with Zelretch who took a look at other universes where the original still existed, all in order to create a copy of the grail. But because they lacked the ability to create a perfect copy, their Holy Grail is simply a container with a ridiculous amount of prana, which can still be used to grant many "wishes" (such as the Einzbern's Heaven's Feel) but isn't the miraculous wish-granting vessel... thingy some people thought it to be. The changes that (and the three tries to get it which happened before LightNovel/FateZero) brought to the timeline were serious enough that many characters aren't the same; the Servants are also different because this Holy Grail, being a mere copy, uses a different class system.\\

Saber says the StatusScreen is shown on the way most fit to the Master. Shirou's StatusScreen has Alignments, Atributes, level of the atributes in a bar clearly showing points for them, and no one but him knows what that max base damage of Gilgamesh's main attack as "4000" means... That's ignoring his view of magical capacity as MP points, with a precise number of points used and recovered. Saber usually has a completelly diferent metaphor for them, but when applied to Shirou's terms (her words) she addopts the same MP counting.

*** One of Archers shared dreams actually reveals he had a lover, pretty sure that means he wasn't married.

** I've never played the Fallout games, but do communications really suck that badly there? Or did Japan suddenly become a worldwide military power? It seems like a huge stretch for an unrelated country to assume that an isolationist power would randomly attack a completely random city in a non-threatening country (with an undetected attack that doesn't resemble a nuclear blast) and resort to nuclear war. At least, not without a "What the hell, man?!" phone call first. (Not touching the feasibility of a sixth Grail War; this is WMG, after all)
*** In the Fallout universe, the US invades and conquers Canada.

** ''Fate/Zero'' confirms that you don't need to have a catalyst to summon a servant (as we saw with Ryuunosuke, who summoned Caster without even knowing about the holy grail war), and the grail pairs you up with a servant who matches your personality - since Zero! Caster was summoned even less intentionally than Stay Night! Saber was, it's likely Shirou would've summoned a Saber regardless of if he had Avalon in his body. So that raises the question: just ''how'' differently would the war have gone had Shirou summoned a different Saber?

** ...doesn't the existence of the Second Magic (or hell, the [[TheMultiverse very nature]] of the {{Franchise/Nasuverse}}) contradict all of this? Or at least the existence of Fate/Hollow Ataraxia and Realta Nua: Last Episode? The fact that there are three timelines to begin with (none of which are Archer's) means that a paradox is flat-out impossible. Also, what's so paradoxical about Shirou's UBW? He specifically points out in the incantation that the reason he can do it is because he's faced the embodiment of his future ("Withstood pain to create weapons, waiting for one's arrival") and firmly rejected hopelessness while embracing his ideals ("I have no regrets, this is the only path"). Sounds like a pretty good prelude to projecting your soul on the surrounding area...

*** I checked just now, and my memory was a bit off; it's not like Archer shows up onscreen or anything like that. We do see his geared Unlimited Blade Works, and Saber lamenting the changes he goes through as he pursues his ideal and turns his mind into steel. It's basically what Archer went through. I suppose you could say that it's just a Shirou who happened to have an extremely similar life and worldview. Well, the voice is still NoriakaSugiyama's, anyway.

*** Fate/Unlimited codes version of Shirou actually seems like the best guess for which Shirou became Archer, its basically the fate route except Shirou does not fall in love with Saber, and actually comes away from the Grail War MORE determined to uphold his ideal.

By Hollow Ataraxia, Shirou has Saber, Rin, Sakura, and [[spoiler: Rider]] in love with him, with Ilya, Mitsuzuri, Taiga, Luvia, [[ThoseTwoGuys Kane, Yukika]], and [[HoYay Issei]] showing interest in some way or another. Caren and Bazett might also count, depending on if you consider the protagonist of HA both Shirou and Avenger. As Archer, he gets all three of those track team girls, including Kaede, swooning over him at their first meeting. Unlike Shirou, though, Archer has also seduced most of the playing audience as well, [[EvenTheGuysWantHim including the men]], meaning the Emiya gland works in reality even though it's a fictional character, and that's something Shiki could never hope for (well, unless he killed the barrier between reality and fiction with his knife, then who knows?).
** Shirou [[spoiler: isn't Avenger. At all. Shirou never had a clue of what happened in Ataraxia. Bazett isn't in love with Avenger (she cares for him greatly) ''or'' Shirou. The only reason why she's staying in Shirou's house for a week is to look for a job and settle down somewhere else so she can be with Lancer again (Shirou, Rin, Saber and Caren half-tease her obvious crush). Shirou's resemblance to Avenger does make Caren blush, so you might like to count her. Maybe.]]

The thing is, its the "World" that is the Nasuverse, which doesn't describe a planet, such as earth, but the current state of reality. Gilgamesh claims that Ea is some sort of absolute "truth", and it is. Specifically, its purpose is the restore the world to the natural state of reality without whatever influence makes it the way it is. So, it doesn't have the ability to destroy the planet, or take on the whole world, but its anti-world in that its attack destroys reality. In other words, Ea isn't so powerful that it destroys the world, but is so powerful BECAUSE it destroys the world. It's entire purpose is to eat away at reality.

* Shirou's magic is a heretical and if the Mage's Association ever figured out he was using a realty marble they'd either lock him away for study or kill him out right. The only reason he'd ever consider joining the Association was to stay near Rin.

* If only Rider survived it could end up being the Fate/Hollow timeline.

* No need of a game for [[spoiler: Akasha/the Root]]; Nasu's already wrote about it, his very first, in fact. [[spoiler: It's called ''LightNovel/TheGardenOfSinners'']].

*** It's actually confirmed by Word of God (and Apocrypha) that the Nazis were involved in the Third War. Apparently there was a fight between them and the Japanese military over the Grail. That being said, the Einzberns summoned Angra Mainyu in the Third War and thus lost very early on, so I'm not sure about them and the Nazis.

* '''1.)''' [[MemeticMutation Wait. Okay.]] First and foremost, by comparing her own life to Archer's, Saber is able to come to terms with the same thing as she did in Fate. That's canon. This being such, after going back and dieing on the hill with Bedivere, she goes to Avalon. Meanwhile when Archer disappears he had ''just'' the right amount of impact on the past that he managed to Time Paradox himself out of service to Alaya. Since he managed not to kill Shirou or make him sway from his path, Archer is either rewarded with or ends up accidentally shows up in Avalon. Here he can finally be with Saber for all eternity as they fall in love again. Aw~
* '''2.)''' Canonically Shinji is less of a jerk after being turned into an abomination. Before Shirou leaves with Rin to the Clock Tower, Shinji gives in to his guilt and admits everything, throwing himself on Shirou's mercy. Shirou has all ready seen Rule Breaker, knows what it does, and doesn't have Rider cockblocking him at every turn anymore. He simply walks up to Sakura, Rule Breakers her and voila, her entire route accomplished in a few minutes. Naturally they take her with them, probably to the clock Tower where Rin has decent facilities to help her.

* There. Shirou will be a revered hero instead of a reviled one, Rin gets a nice husband and gets to become a great magus, Sakura herself can start enjoying life, shinji is less of a jerk, the Grail is gone, Zouken is dead, Archer and Saber live happilly ever after, and Shirou [[BreadEggsMilkSquick gets to have foursomes with Rin, Sakura and Luvia.]]

Shirou is actually hungry throughout the entirety of Fate/stay night. After all - he's a teenage boy, they eat a lot (I remember quite well when I was one), he's always running around fighting and trying to survive, plus Tracing has to burn up an assload of calories. The guy's practically starved whenever he makes love to a heroine, even when he's just eaten...

[[WMG: Heaven's Feel Makes You Feel Guilty For Liking the Other Women ]]

*** I Find this whole thing amusing as while Heavens Feel does make you feel guilty about whats happening to Sakura it actually made me like Ilya a hell of a lot more then Sakura, whereas the whole route is literally a "what stupid thing will Sakura do next" festival, Ilya always seems to try and help Shirou even though she knows that in the end a sacrifice will be necessary between the three of them. Also considering what her life has been like (Parental abandonment, training from hell that nearly killed her, constant manipulation and borderline brainwashing, no friends besides her maids...which she made herself) she has it nearly as bad as Sakura does. Mind you I don't dislike Sakura, its just the whole route is caused by her mistakes

** Really, I can't imagine how Sakura's any more shoehorned into Fate/Stay Night than Kohaku was in Tsukihime. Structurally, Heaven's Feel was FSN's equivalent to the Far Side paths, the ones that deal with the story from an entirely different angle. Then again, I've gotten into enough arguments already about it to see what you mean...I still love her, though.

* Magi hate and fear the Counter Force, though. They're the ones who tend to show up when they're not wanted and screw up your experiment to get to the Root (if I heard [[LightNovel/TheGardenOfSinners Touko and Souren's conversation]] right). I guess that doesn't totally preclude her willingly joining the Counter Force, but it would still require a non-UBW route (she knows Archer's story in that, and he admits out loud that she's smart enough to keep Shirou ''reined in'') and for something really strange to happen to her motivation; she's not a total pragmatist like she wants to be, but neither is she the unquestioning, hardheaded idealist that Shirou, Saber, or Joan of Arc (the only Counter Guardians or equivalent we know of) were. Becoming a Heroic Spirit is right out. The last one to do that was 150-200 years ago; it's near impossible for someone in the present to do something that is literally so ungodly exceptional and awesome that the world considers them perfect enough to set aside. Rin's more likely to become the full practitioner of Kaleidoscope before that.

On the Nasuverse, when a person dies the soul is sent back to Akasha, where it is recycled and used to make more souls. All souls are made from the same source wich mean the more people running around, the weaker the souls made are. The problem here are the Heroic Spirits, when the Hero dies, his soul is sent to the Throne and left there. The souls of heroes and heroines aren't recycled, wich mean the stuff used to theirs souls never will be used to make other souls(Gilgamesh's soul alone is as "heavy" as the souls of hundreds of thousend of souls of modern day people). The material left will keep being divided in weaker and weaker souls.
Maybe that is why there aren't any Heroic Spiritsf from after the 19th century. Akasha can't efford to lose more of the soul mojo it have.
* Isn't it explicitly said somewhere that modern day people suck because the collective unconscious is spread out over too many people? That is, there are [[Main/ConservationOfNinjutsu too many ninjas.]]

Consider it. He's an archer only because he's an arrogant (awesomely I might add) ass and just shoots his weapons like arrows. He's obviously very good at sword play (likely surpassing Arturia), so he could easily qualify for the Saber class. Likely the same could be said about the lancer class. So he at least would qualify for the 3 knight classes. Most likely beserker too.

* It´s very possible. He is implied to be even better than Arturia at swordplay when using Ea (a weapon he mastered for over 125 years), his armor is able to absorb several dozen hits from Excalibur in a similar fashion to God Hand (it simply shrugs off anything below a certain rank attack, no matter how powerful it was as long as it was that kind of class) and his extensive knowledge of magic and human psychology and his possesion of various anti-magic Noble Phantasms could easily qualify him as Saber. If Gilgamesh had the mature, kind and awesome personality he developed when he was friends with Enkidu he wouldn´t be sitting on his ass shooting weak Phantasms. He could qualify for Saber, Rider (with Enkidu he could enslave a dragon, without even mentioning other mythological creatures like The Bull of Heaven), Lancer (besides the fact that he shoots Gae Bolg a lot, you could possibly wield Ea similarly to a Lance).

[[WMG: The reason Shiro/Archer rely on Kansho and Bakuya so much...]]
The source of Shiro/Archer's projection is their reality marble. Even factoring in the limitations of their prana levels, the sheer number of weapons they have should leave them with plenty of options. But it makes more sense when you think about how their whole PossessionImpliesMastery ability works. Shiro and Archer gain proficiency in a weapon by accessing its memories of being wielded (hitch are recreated along with the weapons' forms). But the vast majority of the weapons copied into Unlimited Blade Works come from Gilgamesh's Gate of Babylon, which contains the treasures in the state before they were wielded by anybody. In other words, the weapons that Shiro/Archer copied from this source have no memories for them to draw on in order to gain proficiency, which limits them to the comparatively small number of weapons that they gained from other sources.

* The second set of speculation doesn't hold because Berserker's Mad Enhancement makes impossible to him to recognize Medea. Also it implies revealing Caster's identity to Ilya, which doesn't sound like a good idea.

** [[VideoGame/AssassinsCreedI Altaïr Ibn-La'Ahad]].[[MemeticBadass End of discussion.]]

** Sanguinor. he's either the spirit of the the strongest Primarch Sanguinius or the leader of the very first Blood Angel Sanguinary Guard but either way he's badass enough to demolish a Blood Thirster in Close Combat and said Blood Thirster is the biggest strongest and meanest one and the reason for trashing the Blood Thirster? the Blood Angels were losing the Battle

** Sigismund. can be considered a good counterpart to Kharn and was a blood brother to him that said he beat KHARN in combat although that was a Sparring match by Space Marine Standards

[[WMG: Gilgamesh is an AU Version of [[TabletopGame/{{Warhammer 40000}} The God Emperor of Mankind]]]]

* A he even gets a bitchin tan out of it too!

In the epilogue to the Fate route, we see some of his thoughts. He thinks of how he joined the round table just to see King Arthur smile, laugh or have other expressions. He expresses sadness that the king is not understood or is never rewarded for his hard work - all of which are thoughts Shirou have about her past he sees in her memories. However, most convincingly, upon awaking Arturia looks at him and says, "So this is the continuation of the dream" (paraphrasing). Basically, she sees him and mistakes him for Shirou for a moment before deciding that going to "sleep" once more will really continue the dream.

* Probably. He qualifies as Caster as per Grand Order, he has Kirei's support, and he knows about Zouken (or Kirei can tell him about him), so he could very easily raid the Tohsaka, Matou and Einzbern residences (there's nothing keeping him in Fuyuki, flying to Germany and back would be effortless), stea - ''requisition'' their grimoires and perform a summoning of his own in the Fifth War. I doubt he'd summon himself, though. Perhaps Enkidu, except it would be a ''fake'', so ...

[[WMG: Had Saber been a regular servant summoned from the Throne rather than her rather special circumstances, she would have had an "Ionian Hetairoi" esk Noble Phantasm that is the Round Table]]
Since that is something necessarily connected to her legend, and of course, Ionian Hetairoi set president.

This isn't referring to Archer or anything related to that (well kinda). I'm referring to who he may have been before the Fuyuki fire; [[FightingIrish a half-Japanese, half-Irish boy]]. His red hair lends credence to the theory, since red hair is typically a European trait (albeit Sakura's hair is ''purple''). But nobody ever says that he doesn't look Japanese, so he must have a Japanese face in-universe (since the art style has difficulties showing anyone's ethnicity). Another factor to this is that Archer has the sword Caladbolg in Unlimited Blade Works, and Cú Chulainn was supposed to be under a geas to lose against any Ulster-born warrior who wielded it. While Archer never ''used'' the sword against Cú, notice that Lancer never once ''won'' against Archer in a direct fight. While circumstances limited them from going all out against each other, it was shown repeatedly that Lancer had difficulties actually getting ahead of Archer. What makes this different is that Lancer has shown keeping up with enemies who were superior to Archer, at least stat-wise. While it could be chalked up to Archer's techniques and skill bridging the gap, it could be that since Archer only has copies of weapons and not the real thing, the geas may have only partly activated. Thus, Lancer was hindered somewhat, but not enough to realize what was happening, and Archer managed to use that hindrance to his advantage.

There was a scrapped route where Shirou befriends and contracts with a stray Shielder Servant(Tachie). Tachie could've been a genderflipped Ajax the Great and sometime in Archer's original timeline during or after the war she bequeathed her shield, the catalyst for her summoning in the 4th Holy Grail War to Shirou as a conceptual weapon to protect him, not unlike Avalon, allowing him to use it albeit at a reduced performance. Archer's throwaway line towards Lancer regarding Rho Aias implies that it is the genuine article rather than a disposable copy he created using Unlimited Blade Works.

Sakura becomes TheChick with an unlimited supply of Prana and technical control over the Third Magic.

*** Chaotic Good is not 'To hell with the world as long as my Master is okay.' She's more like an awesome PoisonousFriend than anything resembling 'good.' And she sure doesn't seem to mind her rather vampiric actions. Drinking blood is not a good thing in the nasuverse. Anything she does for Shinji doesn't really count, so she's not really Evil either.