History Main / NotSoOmniscientCouncilOfBickering

* The Sanctuary from SkulduggeryPleasant are starting to slide towards this.

Government Legislators (congress, senate, etc) around the world are often seen this way by citizens.

* The United Nations.
** Lampshaded in that on the rare occasion they actually make a decision, it usually ends up going horribly wrong.
* The European Union.
** Pretty much the swiftest decision the EU have ever made, was not wanting Tony Blair to be their president. Blair's answer: "I never wanted the job anyway!" Yeah, real mature there, Tony.

** They take several days to discuss what to do in the book as well, but it seems that once it came time to take a vote, they were more than eager to get to work.

This is a powerful and influential organization that can and should have a very strong impact on the plot. Often it even has all the resources necessary to easily solve the main problem and defeat the BigBad. The only problem is, its members are too busy with arguing between each other to do anything.

Most of the time they spend the entire story just considering how they should react to the situation, which means the heroes are the ones who have to do all the work. If the heroes take orders from them -- for example, if the heroes are military and the council consists of their superiors -- their lack of united front may even prevent protagonists from taking action. Even if there is a ReasonableAuthorityFigure among them, their voice rarely can raise above all the bickering. The most interesting thing its members may ever do will be [[BloodOnTheDebateFloor using their fists in the debate]]. If the villain is a MagnificentBastard he will have no problem with manipulating them into a situation where their inability to rise above their differences will render them completely useless.

The council members can have a number of different motivations for behaving this way. Sometimes, it's a result of TheMole or LesCollaborateurs actively trying to prevent the organization from taking any form of action. There may also be a group who believe that HoldingOutForAHero is their best option. Some of the members of said organization may just decide there is no way thay can defeat the BigBad so it's better to just [[ApatheticCitizens give up]] or [[WhileRomeBurns spend their remaining time on endless hedonistic partying]]. Sometimes there are also members that believe it's all [[SomebodyElsesProblem Somebody Else's Problem]]; if they go to their HiddenElfVillage, they'll be safe, and even if forces of evil would happen to really go after them, their MadeOfIron defense will be enough to deal with it. Sometimes there's an ObstructiveBureaucrat who doesn't care how terrible the situation is, he won't let anybody do anything until they'll learn to follow the procedure step by step. And they're all keeping the rest from responding to [[GondorCallsForAid Gondor's Call For Aid]].

This may take different forms, ranging from an AbsurdlyPowerfulStudentCouncil that cannot agree what to do with some problematic bully or SadistTeacher up to a version of TheAlliance where every member country, from TheKingdom to TheRepublic, has a very different idea how deal with TheEmpire's war on TheFederation or even which one they should side with.

Because a lots of people see their [[TheGovernment government]] as this, please avoid RealLife examples.

** Turncoat ([[LongRunningBookSeries book 11]]) reveals a key reason for all this-- the titular turncoat (or at least, one of the people the name applies to in varying ways) [[spoiler: was the secretary of the Council. In the most literal sense, they were letting the enemy set their agenda!]]

* Ents in ''Film/TheLordOfTheRings: Two Towers''. In the book they quickly agree to attack Isengard. In the movie they start a long, offscreen debate over what to do. It's only after they find out what Saruman did to part of the forest that they decide to attack Isengard.

The council members can have a number of different motivations for behaving this way. Sometimes, it's a result of TheMole or LesCollaborateurs actively trying to prevent the organization from taking any form of action. There may also be a group who believe that HoldingOutForAHero is their best option. Some of the members of said organization may just decide there is no way thay can defeat the BigBad so it's better to just [[ApatheticCitizens give up]] or [[WhileRomeBurns spend their remaining time on endless hedonistic partying]]. Sometimes there are also members that believe it's all [[SomebodyElsesProblem Somebody Else's Problem]]; if they go to their HiddenElfVillage, they'll be safe, and even if forces of evil would happen to really go after them, their MadeOfIron defense will be enough to deal with it. Sometimes there's an ObstructiveBureaucrat who doesn't care how terrible the situation is, he won't let anybody do anything until they'll learn to follow the procedure step by step. And they're all keeping rest from responding to [[GondorCallsForAid Gondor's Call For Aid]].

** Turncoat reveals a key reason for all this-- the titular turncoat (or at least, one of the people the name applies to in varying ways) [[spoiler: was the secretary of the Council. In the most literal sense, they were letting the enemy set their agenda!]]

This may take different forms, ranging from an AbsurdlyPowerfulStudentCouncil that cannot agree what to do with some problematic bully or SadistTeacher up to a version of TheAlliance where every member country, from TheKingdom to TheRepublic, has a very different idea how deal with TheEmpire's war on TheFederation or even which one they should side with.

Compare OrcusOnHisThrone. Contrast OmniscientCouncilOfVagueness, which is rarely seen doing anything but seems to have strong -- if mysterious -- impact on the plot.

Contrast OmniscientCouncilOfVagueness, which is rarely seen doing anything but seems to have strong -- if mysterious -- impact on the plot.

The council members can have a number of different motivations for behaving this way. Sometimes, it's a result of TheMole or LesCollaborateurs actively trying to prevent the organization from taking any form of action. There may also be a group who believe that HoldingOutForAHero is their best option. Some of the members of said organization may just decide there is no way thay can defeat the BigBad so it's better to just [[ApatheticCitizens give up]] or [[WhileRomeBurns spend their remaining time on endless hedonistic partying]]. Sometimes there are also members that believe it's all [[SomebodyElsesProblem Somebody Else's Problem]]; if they go to their HiddenElfVillage, they'll be safe, and even if forces of evil would happen to really go after them, their MadeOfIron defense will be enough to deal with it. Sometimes there's an ObstructiveBureaucrat who doesn't care how terrible the situation is, he won't let anybody do anything until they'll learn to follow the procedure step by step. And they're all keeping rest from responding to [[GondorCallsForAid Godnor's Call For Aid]].

Most of the time they spend the entire story just considering how they should react to the situation, which means the heroes are the ones who have to do all the work. If the heroes take orders from them -- for example, if the heroes are military and the council consists of their superiors -- their lack of united front may even prevent protagonists from taking action. Even if there is a ReasonableAuthorityFigure among them, their voice rarely can raise above all the bickering. The most interesting thing its members may ever do will be [[BloodOnTheDebateFloor using their fists in the debate]]. If the villain is a MagnificentBastard he will have no problem with manipulating them in a situation where their inability to rise above their differences will render them completely useless.

It may very often be a result of TheMole and LesCollaborateurs actively trying to prevent the organization from taking any form of action, or group who belive that HoldingOutForAHero is their best option. Some of members of said organization may just decide there is no way thay can defeat the BigBad so it's better to just [[ApatheticCitizens give up]] or [[WhileRomeBurns spend their remaining time on endless hedonistic party]]. Sometimes there also members of said organization that believe it's all [[SomebodyElsesProblem Somebody Else's Problem]] and if they'll go to their HiddenElfVillage, they will be safe, and even if forces of evil would happen to really go after them, their MadeOfIron defense will be enough to deal with it. Sometimes there is ObstructiveBureaucrat who doesn't care how terrible the situation is, he won't let anybody do anything until they'll learn to follow the procedure step by step. And they're all keeping rest from responding to [[GondorCallsForAid Godnor's Call For Aid]].

May take different forms, starting from AbsurdlyPowerfulStudentCouncil that cannot agree what to do with some problematic bully or SadistTeacher and ending on TheAlliance where every member country, from TheKingdom to TheRepublic, has very different idea how deal with TheEmpire's war with TheFederation or even which one they should side with.

See WeAREStrugglingTogether and HangingSeparately if it's not one organization but bunch of them, often different forms of LaResistance, who could have easily solve their problems if they had joined forces, but won't do that due to their many differences. See also JurisdictionFriction

Compare OrcusOnHisThrone and AchillesInHisTent for individual cases of people who could strongly affect the plot but do nothing for various reasons. Subtrope for AHouseDivided and DyingLikeAnimals - it often tends to consist all kinds of opportunistic, apathetic and delusional animals, sell-outs and sometimes few [[CrazySurvivalist wolves]], [[DirtyCoward chickens]] and [[GullibleLemmings lemmings]]. See also HufflepuffHouse. Distantly related to AllPowerfulBystander

Contrast OmniscientCouncilOfVagueness, which rarerly is seen doing anything but is mysterious and seems to have strong impact on the plot, often puling strings from the shadows, while Not So Omniscient Council Of Bickerig is too busy arguing to do so.

!Examples:

* Page quote shows the role of Monitors from CountdownToFinalCrisis, who spend almost entire series arguing if they should do something or not.
** Worth nothing that later in the series main characters have to decide if they should kill Karate Kid, annihilating his disease before it will kill him and turn into pandemia, or look for other way to deal with it. Instead of doing something, they spend the entire time bickering at each other, until it was too late.
* In the origin of Superboy-Prime, Kryptonians all agreed that Krypton was going to explode but couldn't decide what to do about it.

* Ents in ''TheLordOfTheRings: Two Towers'' movie. In the book they quickly agreed to attack Isengard. In the movie they started long, offscreen debate over what to do. It's only after they find out what Saruman did with part of the forest, that they decide to attack Isengard.
** Even the Ents in the book take about three days before they make up their collective minds (though this is apparently ''very'' fast by Ent standards).
*** Plus it's not so much that they're bickering as it is that all the words in Entish are really really long.

* In the Book Of Swords series, every time the gods gather in council they can't agree on anything, and spend their time bickering and accusing, even when they are in peril from the swords they created.
* In the books and Film Of The Book, the gods in Percy Jackson tend to act this way, leaving it up to the heroes to get things done.
* Every other organisation in ''TheWheelOfTime'' is an example of this, but the rebels form the White Tower from before Egwene took matters in hand deserve a special mention.

* The Elders from {{Charmed}}
* In Classic ''DoctorWho'' the Timelords were one of these.

* In Ben10AlienForce, Ben unlocks the power of Alien X - the most powerful alien in Omnitrix, [[RealityWarper who can bend reality to his will]] - only to find out he is composed of two beings that cannot agree upon anything, even as simple things as movement or returning back to Ben's human form. That's the reason Ben never uses him.
** When Alien X and its species the Celestial Sapiens appear in ''Ben10UltimateAlien'', this is shockingly averted when the beings inside Alien X notice Paradox. Thanks to a NoodleIncident in the distant past they have a restraining order against Paradox. Thinking that he's violated the arrangement, the two ''immediately'' agree to destroy him.
** WordOfGod is that ''all'' Celestialsapiens are like this (and also that they ''can'' reach a consensus on their own, it just takes a ''really'' long time).

--> "--We should do something!
--> --Should we do something?
--> --We should do something!
--> --Should we do something?"

Powerful and influential organization that can and should have very strong impact on the plot, often even having all resources necessary to easily solve main problem and defeat the BigBad. Except that they are too busy with arguing between each other whether they should or not.

Most of time they spend entire story just considering how they should react on the situation, which means the heroes are the ones who have to do all the job. If heroes takes orders from them, like sometimes in military fiction, their lack of united front may even prevent protagonists from taking the action. Even if there is ReasonableAuthorityFigure among them, it's voice rarely can raise above all the bickerig. The most interesting thing it's members may ever do will be [[BloodOnTheDebateFloor using their fists in the debate]]. If the villain is MagnificentBastard he will have no problem with manipulating them in a situation where their inability to rise above their differences will render them completely useless.

* ''PiratesOfTheCaribbean: At Worlds End'' has the pirates holed up on an island with the navy right outside. They can't decide on what to do so they have a vote to decide who becomes the pirate king despite the fact that every other time they had one it always ended in a draw because everybody kept voting for themselves. [[spoiler: It seems to go that way this time, too, until Elizabeth sarcastically votes for herself - and Jack ''backs her up''.]]

* ''PiratesOfTheCaribbean: At Worlds End'' has the pirates holed up on an island with the navy right outside. They can't decide on what to do so they have a vote to decide who becomes the pirate king despite the fact that every other time they had one it always ended in a draw because everybody kept voting for themselves.

** When Alien X and its species the Celestial Sapiens appear in ''Ben10UltimateAlien'', this is shockingly averted when the beings inside Alien X notice Paradox. Thanks to a NoodleIncident in the distant past they have a restraining order against Paradox. Thinking that he's violated the arrangement, the two ''immediately'' agree to destroy him.

** Worth nothing that later in the series main characters have to decide if they should kill Karate Kid, annihilating his disease before itwill kill him and turn into pandemia, or look for other way to deal with it. Instead of doing something, they spend entire time bickerig at each other, until it wass too late.

* In Ben10AlienForce, Ben unlocks the power of Alien X - the most powerful alien in Omnitrix, [[RealityWarper who can bend reality to his will]] - only to find out he is composed of two beings that cannot agree upon anything, even as simple things as movement or returning back to Ben's human form. That's the reason Ben never uses him.

* [[PiratesOfTheCaribbean Pirates of the Caribbean At Worlds End]] has the pirates holed up on an island with the navy right outside. They can't decide on what to do so they have a vote to decide who becomes the pirate king despite the fact that every other time they had one it always ended in a draw because everybody kept voting for themselves.

Compare OrcusOnHisThrone and AchillesInHisTent for individual cases of people who could strongly affect the plot but do nothing for various reasons. Subtrope for AHouseDivided and DyingLikeAnimals � it often tends to consist all kinds of opportunistic, apathetic and delusional animals, sell-outs and sometimes few [[CrazySurvivalist wolves]], [[DirtyCoward chickens]] and [[GullibleLemmings lemmings]]. See also HufflepuffHouse. Distantly related to AllPowerfulBystander