History Main / NoHonorAmongThieves

-->'''Michael:''' There are always going to be trust issues when you run a criminal enterprise. If you steal with a man, he knows you're a thief. If you kill with a man, he knows you're a killer. [[{{Understatement}} It's a huge management issue.]]

* Michael Westen [[DiscussedTrope discusses]] this trope in the BurnNotice episode "Seek and Destroy":

* Michael Westen discusses this trope in the BurnNotice episode "Seek and Destroy":
->"There are always going to be trust issues when you run a criminal enterprise. If you steal with a man, he knows you're a thief. If you kill with a man, he knows you're a killer. [[{{Understatement}} It's a huge management issue.]]"

->"There are always going to be trust issues when you run a criminal enterprise. If you steal with a man, he knows you're a thief. If you kill with a man, he knows you're a killer. [[{{Understatement}} It's a huge management issue.]]"
-->--'''Michael Westen''', ''BurnNotice'', "Seek And Destroy"

-->"There are always going to be trust issues when you run a criminal enterprise. If you steal with a man, he knows you're a thief. If you kill with a man, he knows you're a killer. [[{{Understatement}} It's a huge management issue.]]"

"There are always going to be trust issues when you run a criminal enterprise. If you steal with a man, he knows you're a thief. If you kill with a man, he knows you're a killer. [[Understatement It's a huge management issue.]]"

You see, [[{{Nakama}} for a team to really come together]], there has to be some level of mutual trust. People on the same side need to know their friends will be there to bail them out in a tight spot, and won't sell them out to the enemy or abandon them for some selfish gain at a bad moment. They need to know that, when the going gets tough, or when some temptation arises, their allies will still be right by their side, through thick and thin. For the most part, such willingness to put the group before oneself is inherently at odds with the whole idea of being a Bad Guy.

And so we have this trope. While the heroes cling to the PowerOfFriendship and trust in their {{Nakama}} to see them through, the villains simply cannot trust one another. Always, even when their victory seems closest, it seems to come undone because the bad guys are inherently treacherous and suspicious of one another. If the EvilOverlord is near to victory, you can expect TheDragon to make some [[TheStarscream bid for personal power]] at the last minute that gives the heroes enough breathing room to gain the victory. And if you have a team of more or less equal [[CardCarryingVillain Card Carrying Villains]] in it ForTheEvulz, expect them to fall prey to this in no time at all, with their momentary shared goals falling by the wayside the second any of them sees an advantage in turning on their old 'friends.'

** Also shows up, with Zaeed's {{Backstory}}. His business partner for the [[PrivateMilitaryContractors Private Military Company]] the two started had this mindset. He hired terrorists and such, leading to a case of [[EvenEvilhasStandards Even Evil has Standards]] from Zaeed, resulting in said criminal further cementing his belief in this trope, by hiring Zaeed's own men to kill him.

** Also shows up, with Zaeed's {{Backstory}}. His business partner for the [[PrivateMilitaryContractors Private Military Company]] the two started had this mindset, hiring terrorists and such, leading to a case of EvenEvilhasStandards for Zaeed, resulting in said criminal hiring Zaeed's own men to kill him.

* StarWars. Somewhat in the films, but above all in the EU, the Sith, and later the Empire, have a nasty tendency to gain the ascendancy and then lose badly when they start turning on each other.
* PiratesOfTheCaribbean has Will Turner comment "No heroes amongst thieves, eh?" when Jack tells him part of the Pirates Code; "Any man who falls behind is left behind". Of course, all the good pirates ignore this for the rest of the series.
* {{Tangled}}: Flynn does this to the Stabbington brothers early in the movie.

* Allen Drury's novel "The Promise of Joy". The Soviets and Chinese work together against the U.S. throughout most of the book, but near the end they start a limited nuclear war with each other.
* {{Redwall}}
* {{Dragonlance}}

* The wizard-run British Government in TheBartimaeusTrilogy is vastly corrupt and falling apart, because a wizard's standard childhood and upbringing teaches them teaches them to value their own ambitions over anything else.

* {{Warhammer 40000}}. Either Chaos or the Orks win for being the most enthusiastic about it, but they're far from the only ones who suffer from this.
* {{Warhammer}}. Chaos, Orcs and Skaven especially.

* KnightsOfTheOldRepublic. The Sith are ''rife'' with this problem throughout both the game itself and the backstory. Of particular note: the encouraged ChronicBackstabbingDisorder of the Sith leads to [[BigBad Malak]] attempting to kill his own master Revan, which deprives the Sith of their previous MagnificentBastard leader and starts the chain of events that finally leads to Sith defeat.
* {{Warcraft}}. In game, merely used as an excuse for CivilWarcraft, the later backstory makes it clear that [[TheHorde the Orcish Horde]] lost the second war because Gul'dan and Orcish clans loyal to him abandoned the Warchief at a decisive moment in favor of Gul'dan's own plans to find [[SealedEvilInACan Sargeras]].
* MegaManStarForce 3

* In ''[[GrandTheftAutoViceCity Grand Theft Auto: Vice City]]'' Tommy Vercetti believes that among the family nothing is more important than [[HonorAmongThieves honor and loyalty]]. However as the story progresses he soon realizes he was very much alone in this belief.

** [[TooDumbToLive This is made into an even stupider move]] when he notes [[TheDreaded how big of a threat s/he is in a datapad.]]

** Earl reported the theft because it was his car and the thieves did not want to give it back. In the old days the thieves would have returned it to him as a courtesy to a fellow thief. However, since Earl has gone straight, they felt that he was no longer covered by that HonourAmongThieves tradition.

* In one episode of ''MyNameIsEarl'' the criminal community (i.e. all) of Camden turn on Earl when he reports the theft of a car to the police, calling him a snitch. However when one of the criminals gets picked up on Earl's info they in turn accuse another member of their community who has committed a more serious crime in order to get immunity for themselves. Earl makes sure he is standing outside the police station as they get released to let them know he knows that they too have "snitched", and that all their bragging of thieves hanging together is just that, empty bragging.

* In one episode of ''MyNameIsEarl'' the criminal community (i.e. all) of Camden turn on Earl when he reports the theft of a car to the police, calling him a snitch. However when one of the criminals gets picked up on Earl's info they in turn accuse another member of their community who has committed a more serious crime in order to get immunity for themselves. Earl makes sure he is standing outside the police station as they get released to let them know he knows that they too have "snitched".

* Happens with a LOT of criminal groups in the real world. If they think they can make more money by killing a "friend", or simply need to throw someone to the wolves to save themselves, they'll do so without a second thought.

In short, this is ChronicBackstabbingDisorder, or even just chronic lack of trust, applied as a persistent Achilles heel of the bad guys. Often results in an EnemyCivilWar or EvilVersusEvil. Compare with TheComplainerIsAlwaysWrong and EvilCannotComprehendGood. The opposite is EvilIsOneBigHappyFamily and of course, HonorAmongThieves. Could be considered a form of [[PVPBalanced PVP Balance]], to make up for the fact that the heroes [[WhatTheHellHero aren't allowed]] to cross the MoralEventHorizon.