History Main / GrapplingWithGrapplingRules

'''Anakin''': What? Aren't there rules for grappling in this game? [[RandomNumberGod Why are you all covering your dice]]?

* Most '''Tabletopgame/BattleTech'' players are largely unaware the game even has grapple rules. As yet they are the only section of the core rules not to be included in ANY of its [[Videogame/MechWarrior videogame]] adaptations.

* Most '''Tabletopgame/Battletech'' players are largely unaware the game even has grapple rules. As yet they are the only section of the core rules not to be included in ANY of its [[Videogame/MechWarrior videogame]] adaptation

* Most Battletech players are largely unaware the game even has grapple rules. As yet they are the only section of the core rules not to be included in ANY computerization of the game.
** Same with the ''Mechwarrior'' RPG. The rule books give about one page to trying to present grappling rules using adapted wargame mechanics, then appear to give up and point out that simply attacking someone with a weapon is much easier and more effective.

* ''Blog/ThingsMrWelchIsNoLongerAllowedToDoInAnRPG'' #999 ("I can't train squirrel mobs to abuse the grapple rules."). This is primarily a reference to 3rd ed. ''AdvancedDungeonsAndDragons'', which allowed dozens of tiny creatures to gang up on large ones, each one gaining a significant bonus for every other combatant. Or at least, allowing sixteen grapple rolls, one of which will inevitably be a CriticalHit. Granted, the latter doesn't help on a grapple check if their modifier is too low to win even then, which is why the true {{Munchkin}} trains the squirrels to use the Aid Another action. Those that make a successful attack against a flat AC of 10 (probably about three out of four squirrels) each grant a stacking +2 bonus on the character's grapple check (or attack roll or armor class, at the squirrel's option).

* Both ''TabletopGame/OldWorldOfDarkness'' and [[TabletopGame/NewWorldOfDarkness the new]]

* Mentioned in ''Webcomic/TheOrderOfTheStick'', when Nate accuses Sabine of "playtesting the grappling rules with [Elan's] tongue!" (It was a long kiss.)

* Mentioned in ''Webcomic/OrderOfTheStick'', when Nate accuses Sabine of "playtesting the grappling rules with [Elan's] tongue!" (It was a long kiss.)

* Mentioned in ''Webcomic/OrderOfTheStick'', when Nate accuses Sabine of "playtesting the grappling rules with [Elan's] tongue!" [[DontExplainTheJoke It was a long kiss.]]

TruthInTelevision because grappling-based martial arts tend to be harder to learn than striking-based martial arts.

* A classic ''ComicStrip/KnightsOfTheDinnerTable'' strip concerns the knights (well really Brian), abusing Hackmasters "overbearing" (historically the absolutely most confusing and loopholed part of ''AD&D'''s unarmed combat rules) to take the Adventure OffTheRails. Mere mention of the term "Begger Mobs" can crack fans up.
** Overbearing an enemy in earlier editions was simply a horrifying, game-breaking rule. Players and [=GMs=] who used it made the others at the table cry or shudder in disbelief, though often only after a twenty minute review of the rules. It was perfectly possible for a 20th level fighter (read: a legendary warrior whose skills were at the peak the core rule books' range) to be pulled down and pounded into paste by a gang of basic ogres who should, by all rights, be running for their lives. In "normal" combat, the ogres were more suitable for characters for 2nd-5th level, depending on how your particular GM chose to balance his campaigns. Likewise, having a high level human fighter tackle and pin a frost giant - without any Strength boosting equipment - wasn't that hard. Munchkin's Option, er...Player's Option books made it worse in 2nd.

** Fourth Edition isn't so bad; grappling is taken as an attempt to impede your foe's movement, so it gives a penalty to his dexterity with the relevant body part, disables some of his maneuvers, and grants you options for takedowns, pinning, and dragging. Other things you can do in a grapple, like trying to disarm an opponent, are handled using the same rules as outside of a grapple. If your foe wants to counter-grapple, he'll have to break free first.

* ''Blog/ThingsMrWelchIsNoLongerAllowedToDoInAnRPG'' #999. This is primarily a reference to 3rd ed. ''AdvancedDungeonsAndDragons'', which allowed dozens of tiny creatures to gang up on large ones, each one gaining a significant bonus for every other combatant. Or at least, allowing sixteen grapple rolls, one of which will inevitably be a CriticalHit. Granted, the latter doesn't help on a grapple check if their modifier is too low to win even then, which is why the true {{Munchkin}} trains the squirrels to use the Aid Another action. Those that make a successful attack against a flat AC of 10 (probably about three out of four squirrels) each grant a stacking +2 bonus on the character's grapple check (or attack roll or armor class, at the squirrel's option).
-->I can't train squirrel mobs to abuse the grapple rules.

* ''ThingsMrWelchIsNoLongerAllowedToDoInAnRPG'' #999:

** This is primarily a reference to 3rd ed. ''AdvancedDungeonsAndDragons'', which allowed dozens of tiny creatures to gang up on large ones, each one gaining a significant bonus for every other combatant. Or at least, allowing sixteen grapple rolls, one of which will inevitably be a CriticalHit.
** Granted, the latter doesn't help on a grapple check if their modifier is too low to win even then, which is why the true {{Munchkin}} trains the squirrels to use the Aid Another action. Those that make a successful attack against a flat AC of 10 (probably about three out of four squirrels) each grant a stacking +2 bonus on the character's grapple check (or attack roll or armor class, at the squirrel's option).

* UnderestimatingBadassery: In 2000 an animal rights activist threatened and then physically assaulted Ted Nugent. Nugent easily subdued the guy and held him in an armlock until police arrived.

* UnderestimatingABadass: In 2000 an animal rights activist threatened and then physically assaulted Ted Nugent. Nugent easily subdued the guy and held him in an armlock until police arrived.

* At least until the third edition of ''TheDarkEye'', grappling (save for one very specific fighting style) did only do damage to stamina and not to HP, meaning you could not kill anyone with their bare hands.

** Overbearing an enemy in earlier editions was simply a horrifying, game-breaking rule. Players and GMs who used it made the others at the table cry or shudder in disbelief, though often only after a twenty minute review of the rules. It was perfectly possible for a 20th level fighter (read: a legendary warrior whose skills were at the peak the core rule books' range) to be pulled down and pounded into paste by a gang of basic ogres who should, by all rights, be running for their lives. In "normal" combat, the ogres were more suitable for characters for 2nd-5th level, depending on how your particular GM chose to balance his campaigns. Likewise, having a high level human fighter tackle and pin a frost giant - without any Strength boosting equipment - wasn't that hard. Munchkin's Option, er...Player's Option books made it worse in 2nd.

# One participant has the advantage, which changes their respective power levels and options.
# You have to have rules for attempting to break the grapple.
# You have to figure out how disabled the participants are, if somebody tries to attack one of them.

# (optional) As if that weren't enough, you can theoretically still engage in a limited form of standard melee combat while grappling.

Contrast to regular combat, where the only relevant things are "Did I hit?" and "How much damage did I do?"[[note]]Maybe, if you're really fancy, [[SubsystemDamage "Where did I hit?"]] or [[DamageTyping "What kind of damage did I do?"]][[/note]], and you'll begin to understand why grappling is considered such a frightening topic. While all of the factors mentioned above are relevant to standard weapons combat too, grappling systems have had a historical tendency towards [[MisaimedRealism greater "realism" for reasons rarely justified]].

Contrast to regular combat, where the only relevant things are "Did I hit?" and "How much damage did I do?"[[hottip:*:Maybe, if you're really fancy, [[SubsystemDamage "Where did I hit?"]] or [[DamageTyping "What kind of damage did I do?"]], and you'll begin to understand why grappling is considered such a frightening topic. While all of the factors mentioned above are relevant to standard weapons combat too, grappling systems have had a historical tendency towards [[MisaimedRealism greater "realism" for reasons rarely justified]].

Contrast to regular combat, where the only relevant things are "Did I hit?" and "How much damage did I do?"[[hottip:*:Maybe, if you're really fancy, "Where did I hit?" or [[DamageTyping "What kind of damage did I do?"]], and you'll begin to understand why grappling is considered such a frightening topic. While all of the factors mentioned above are relevant to standard weapons combat too, grappling systems have had a historical tendency towards greater "realism" for reasons rarely justified.

** It's gotten a huge step up in comprehensibility with version .31.17, as instead of selecting from a single list containing ''every'' move possible, wrestling and the newly implemented aimed attacks let you select a target body part and limb used on separate menus. While standing you also can't grab with anything but your arms (legs only become usable when you lay down) and [[NowThatsUsingYourTeeth mouth]] after a successful bite attack (as opposed to previous version where all of the six sections or your mouth could grasp different limbs).