History Main / DuelingMessiahs

* Also from Bioware, DragonAgeOrigins has the [[PlayerCharacter Grey Warden]] and [[FallenHero Teryn]] [[WellIntentionedExtremist Loghain]]. Loghain truly believes that he is the only one capable of saving Ferelden from the Blight and acts accordingly, but misunderstands certain crucial facts with disastrous results; 1. Though he successfully liberated his country from an Orlesian occupying force in the past due to genuine strategic prowess and leadership, the nature of the Blight means it is not a mortal army that can be outmanoeuvred. 2. His hatred of the Orlesians makes him categorically refuse to accept their help (and, to be fair, he may well have been right about the Orlesians not leaving if they were invited in). 3. Though he may be very good at giving commands to soldiers, he isn't particularly good at manipulating and compromising with politicians, and his mismanagement makes things worse for everyone. 4. He knows very little about how magic works (much of it being a closely guarded secret by the Circle of Magi), causing his attempts to interfere with the Circle and the circumstances surrounding the budding magical talents of Connor Guerrin to backfire spectacularly. 5. Only a Grey Warden can permanently stop [[KeystoneArmy the Blight]] by killing the Archdemon in a kamikaze HeroicSacrifice (a fact of which he was unaware because the Wardens deliberately keep it secret, to avoid discouraging people from joining). Under different circumstances, he might well have remained the hero he was in the past. Towards the end of the game he can be made aware how badly he's screwed things up, causing him to either [[spoiler: FaceDeathWithDignity, knowing that he's leaving Ferelden in the Warden's capable hands]] or [[spoiler: join the Wardens himself]].

* Kenshiro vs Raoh in ''FistOfTheNorthStar'', as shown above. Both are students of ''Hokuto Shinken'', the most powerful martial art on the planet which produces men of great brilliance and destiny, and both recognize that the post-apocalyptic world in which they live could stand to be a better place. But while Kenshiro believes that one should use strength to inspire humanity towards peace and protect the weak, Raoh believes that the world will improve by [[TheSocialDarwinist becoming the leader and forcing those under him to maintain order]]. Toki, the third Hokuto Brother, strives for peace and non-violence, using Hokuto Shinken to ease the suffering of others as a healer. This puts him at odds with Raoh, but on Kenshiro's side.

* In a strange way, ''SouthPark'' does this with their three-part SuperheroEpisode. [[TokenEvilTeammate The Coon/Cartman]] is definitely the evil one, but [[ObliviouslyEvil thinks of himself as a superhero]] for mass-murdering hippies and [[PoliticallyIncorrectVillain destroying synagogues]]. [[TheCowl Mysterion]]/[[spoiler:Kenny]], however, is the one willing to [[DoesThisRemindYouOfAnything sacrifice his life to save his friends from a world of torment]].

** [[spoiler: Madara counts as a DarkMessiah if he is telling the truth about his intentions, while Naruto is the HopeBringer who is opposing Madara and [[SelfishEvil Obito]]'s plan.]]

-->'''Coon:''' ([[Beat]]) [[EvilCannotComprehendGood Right, that's what superheroes do]].

* Professor Charles Xavier vs Magneto in ''XMen''. Both want the welfare of the Mutant race, but their methods could not differ more. Xavier wants Mutants to be one with humanity, using their abilities for the betterment of mankind and living with humans as equals. Magneto, by contrast, wants Mutants to be the rulers of humanity, considering them genetically superior. While this might make Magneto seem like the bad guy(and he is, to an extent), his backstory also gives him valid reasons for his way of thinking: being a Holocaust survivor, he's faced persecution before, and has sworn that the people of his race shall not face it while he's around.

* There are many religions in the world. They have the goal of bringing humanity to a state of non-suffering, be it in a distant paradise or as peace of self. Those religions don't get along very well. [[RuleOfCautiousEditingJudgment‎ We're not calling names.]]

** That being said, Shepard can become him/herself a DarkMessiah if you play him/her as a [[TheUnfettered full Renegade]] in {{Mass Effect 3}}, still not as bad as the Illusive Man, but pretty close. Even more evident if you chose [[spoiler: the Control Ending, [[NotSoDifferent which is basically what the Illusive Man wanted to accomplish]], but couldn't due to him being indoctrinated.]]

** That being said, Sheppard can become another DarkMessiah if you play him/her as a full renegade in {{Mass Effect 3}}, still not as bad as the Illusive Man, but pretty close. Even more evident if you chose [[spoiler: the Control Ending, [[NotSoDifferent which is basically what the Illusive Man wanted to accomplish]], but couldn't due to him being indoctrinated.]]

But [[TheMessiah these saviors]] are, quite often, just people. They have their virtues and their flaws like anyone else, and though they have made up their own mind about how they want to change the world, sometimes these opinions clash. They may agree on ''why'' the world needs saving, but they don't agree on the ''how''. Snide comments are thrown, furious arguments ensue, and next thing you know, the people who are humanity's best hope are now tragically at each other's throats. And possibly more.

'''Dueling Messiahs''' is what happens when two or more people want to save the world, but their differing methods on how lead to conflict. This is the stuff of [[{{Tragedy}} tragedy]]: human folly gets in the way of the betterment of the world, and two people who might be fast friends otherwise instead become irreconcilable enemies.

* Commander Shepard vs The Illusive Man in the ''VideoGame/MassEffect'' series. Both strive to serve and move humanity forward and save them from the Reapers, but while Shepard does it through heroic, direct action, the Illusive Man prefers more unsavory, underhanded tactics. However, it's valid to point out that, initially, they DID work together, until the Illusive Man went [[WellIntentionedExtremist too far with his more ruthless methods]]. [[spoiler:The Illusive Man was indoctrinated at some point, sure, but he was genuinely trying to serve humanity beforehand, and his indoctrination by the Reapers was through manipulation of his desire to help humanity]]. Being a FallenHero does not stop one from still being a Messiah of sorts.

* CaptainAmerica vs IronMan in ''CivilWar''. After the tragedy at Stanford results in civilian casualties during a supervillain attack, the government puts into motion the [[SuperRegistrationAct Superhuman Registration Act]]. Iron man takes the "Lawful" side of the conflict, while Cap takes the "Good" side.

* In ''Literature/HarryPotter'' there was a legendary duel between Albus Dumbledore and Gellert Grindelwald because the dark wizard,
Grindelwald, wanted to lead the wizards out of hiding and Dumbeldore had become the champion for the muggles, those without magic.

* Korra vs Amon in ''TheLegendOfKorra''. As the Avatar, Korra is literally the cosmic incarnation of balance, so she has the responsibility of maintaining order among the benders of the different nations and promoting the use of Bending as a way to better the world. Amon, by contrast, believes that benders are the ''source'' of all the conflict in the world, and that eliminating Bending completely would usher in an era of peace and equality amongst the people. Amon at least claims that he was wronged by Benders before ([[FreudianExcuse his family was killed and his face scarred by Firebending bandits]]), but anyone who has seen [[AvatarTheLastAirbender the original series]] can testify that he might actually have a point. Of course, their philosophies inevitably put them at odds.

* CaptainAmerica vs IronMan in ''CivilWar''. After the tragedy at Stanford results in civilian casualties during a supervillain attack, the government puts into motion the [[SuperRegistrationAct Superhuman Registration Act]]. Iron man takes the "Lawful" side of the conflict, while Cap takes the "Good" side. YourMileageMayVary on how well that was handled.

* ''Anime/SaintSeiyaOmega'' is interesting since it has not one, but ''two'' Messiah's and one DarkMessiah. Athena wants to protect the world from evil forces, and Mars wants to destroy it because his StartOfDarkness (and DarkIsEvil based powers) influenced him to think only the strong should rule in order to stop senseless suffering. Caught between them is Aria, who would ''like'' to be like Athena, but Mars is using her as a figurehead to fool others and enact his evil plan.

!!Examples:
[[folder:Anime And Manga]]

* ''Anime/CodeGeass'' deals with childhood best friends [[TheChessmaster Lelouch]] [[DarkMessiah Lamperouge]] and [[TheQuisling Suzaku]] [[TheMessiah Kururugi]], both of whom agree on one thing - that the current regime, the Britannian empire, is horrible. However, their methods of changing it differ drastically - Lelouch has enough of a DarkAndTroubledPast to want to overthrow his father the Emperor, and will settle for nothing less than the complete destruction of the monarchy (of which he is a part of - except, of course, for his beloved little sister). Suzaku, on the other hand, rejects an offer to join Lelouch more than once and actually ingratiates himself into Britannian culture quite well (despite being Japanese) because he believes the Britannian empire can be changed from the inside.
* [[PlayingWithATrope Played with]] in ''Manga/{{Berserk}}''. [[AntiHero Guts]] is seen by the public as TheAntichrist who's trying to kill [[BigBad Griffith]], [[TheMessiah the Hawk of Light]] [[TheProphecy prophesized]] by [[HighPriest the Pope]]. [[VillainWithGoodPublicity In reality]], Griffith (aka Femto) is [[DarkMessiah the Hawk of Darkness]], a member of [[DemonLordsAndArchdevils the God Hand]] who's supposed to bring a new age of darkness upon the world. This would in turn make Guts, who's actively [[TheHunter slaying]] [[OurDemonsAreDifferent Apostles]] and [[RoaringRampageOfRevenge trying to kill Griffith]], the ''real'' Hawk of Light. This setup is, however, [[BlackAndGreyMorality further complicated]] by the fact that Guts is a borderline NominalHero who is constantly struggling with his [[EnemyWithin inner]] [[SuperPoweredEvilSide demons]], while Griffith [[spoiler:is actually making the Apostles fight on the side of the humans (though to what end, we can't be quite sure)]].
* ''Manga/{{X1999}}'': Actually invoked by Fuuma and Kamui's dynamic; Kamui is a stock MessianicArchetype, a boy destined to either save the world or destroy it, depending on whether he thinks it's worth saving or not. Fuuma himself is destined to become Kamui's EvilCounterpart of sorts; he's supposed to fight for whatever side Kamui doesn't pick. Because of NoEnding, it remains to be seen how this dynamic will play out.
* Big Mama vs Sacher Torte in ''SorcererHunters''. Both believe that the world is not a nice place anymore, but while Big Mama strives to heal it, Sacher Torte wants to destroy it and rebuild it from scratch, believing it too far gone for redemption. Big Mama's dedication to maintaining the world is so absolute, she even [[spoiler:attempted to KILL Carrot so he wouldn't turn into the God of Destruction]].

[[/folder]]

[[folder:Comic Books]]
* CaptainAmerica vs IronMan in ''CivilWar''. After the tragedy at Stanford results in civilian casualties during a supervillain attack, the government puts into motion the [[SuperRegistrationAct Superhuman Registration Act]]. Iron man takes the "Lawful" side of the conflict, while Cap takes the "Good" side. YourMileageMayVary on how well that was handled.
* Professor Charles Xavier vs Magneto in ''XMen''. Both want the welfare of the Mutant race, but their methods could not differ more. Xavier wants Mutants to be one with humanity, using their abilities for the betterment of mankind and living with humans as equals. Magneto, by contrast, wants Mutants to be the rulers of humanity, considering them genetically superior. While this might make Magneto seem like the bad guy(and he is, to an extent), his backstory also gives him valid reasons for his way of thinking: being a Holocaust survivor, he's faced persecution before, and has sworn that the people of his race shall not face it while he's around.

[[/folder]]

[[folder:Literature]]
* Commander Sam Vimes vs Lord Vetinari in ''Literature/{{Discworld}}''. Both want what's best for Ankh-Morpork, but they often butt heads when Vetinari's using some of his more... unsavory methods, while Vimes's policing just flat out ruins Vetinari's plans.
* The three emperors of ''Literature/RomanceOfTheThreeKingdoms''. All three want to unify China, but their methods and motivations are incompatible with each other.
* In ''Literature/HarryPotter'' there was a legendary duel between Albus Dumbledore and Gellert Grindelwald because the dark wizard, Grindelwald, wanted to lead the wizards out of hiding and Dumbeldore had become the champion for the muggles, those without magic.
[[/folder]]

[[folder:Music]]
* Sort of joked about in the {{Dire Straits}} song "Industrial Disease":
--> I go down to Speaker's Corner and I'm thunderstruck
--> They got free speech, tourists, police in trucks
--> Two men say they're Jesus, one of them must be wrong
--> There's a protest singer, he's singing protest songs
... then [[BrickJoke coming back to them later]]:
--> Meanwhile the first Jesus says 'I'll cure it soon
--> Abolish Monday mornings and Friday afternoons'
--> The other one's on a hunger strike he's dying by degrees
--> How come Jesus gets Industrial Disease?

[[/folder]]

[[folder:Mythology and Religion]]

* The Later-Day Saint view on the War in Heaven states that Satan proposed a plan with himself as "Savior", but mankind would live on earth without agency. Jesus offered to be the one to save the world as God wanted, with agency. Obviously God chose Jesus as the Messiah.
[[/folder]]

[[folder:Video Games]]
* Commander Shepard vs The Illusive Man in the ''VideoGame/MassEffect'' series. Both strive to serve and move humanity forward and save them from the Reapers, but while Shepard does it through heroic, direct action, the Illusive Man prefers more unsavory, underhanded tactics. However, it's valid to point out that, initially, they DID work together, until the Illusive Man went [[WellIntentionedExtremist too far with his more ruthless methods]]. [[spoiler:The Illusive Man was indoctrinated at some point, sure, but he was genuinely trying to serve humanity beforehand, and his indoctrination by the Reapers was through manipulation of his desire to help humanity]]. Being a FallenHero does not stop one from still being a Messiah of sorts.
* Many ''Franchise/ShinMegamiTensei'' games deal with these, with you choosing which "Messiah" you will support. Typically, the games take place after or during TheEndOfTheWorldAsWeKnowIt, and some characters will come up with ideas to form the new world that fall along the lines of [[OrderVersusChaos Law-Neutral-Chaos]]. The Law character will suggest a society where the law is absolute and free will is minimized, while the chaos character will suggest TheSocialDarwinist society. Neutral is usually undoing the apocalypse and return the society to how it was before.
** ''VideoGame/ShinMegamiTenseiIIINocturne'' is an interesting example, with FOUR potential saviors. The Demi-Fiend is the main arbiter of what direction the world will go into, but there are also three other characters with their own opinions of the direction the world can take. [[spoiler:Chiaki]] strives to create a world based on [[TheSocialDarwinist Social Darwinism]], where the strong flourish and the weak perish. [[spoiler:Isamu]] wants to create a world based on individuality, in which everyone will have their own world suited to them and sever ties with everyone else. [[spoiler:Hikawa]] wants to create a [[WorldOfSilence world of "emptiness"]], where no one has free will and thus no evil can be performed. The Demi-Fiend can side with one of these saviors or defy all three and [[TakeAThirdOption take a fourth option or fifth option]]. One of them is to [[spoiler:[[ScrewDestiny give the world back to humans exactly as it was, trusting them to create their own destiny]]]], while the other one is to [[spoiler:[[TheLegionsOfHell defeat Lucifer to become the new ruler of Hell]] and [[RageAgainstTheHeavens assault Heaven to kick God's ass]]]]. Yikes.

[[folder:Western Animation]]

* Korra vs Amon in ''TheLegendOfKorra''. As the Avatar, Korra is literally the cosmic incarnation of balance, so she has the responsibility of maintaining order among the benders of the different nations and promoting the use of Bending as a way to better the world. Amon, by contrast, believes that benders are the ''source'' of all the conflict in the world, and that eliminating Bending completely would usher in an era of peace and equality amongst the people. Amon at least claims that he was wronged by Benders before([[FreudianExcuse his family was killed and his face scarred by Firebending bandits]]), but anyone who has seen [[AvatarTheLastAirbender the original series]] can testify that he might actually have a point. Of course, their philosophies inevitably put them at odds.

[[/folder]]

[[folder: Real Life]]
* A psychology experiment in 1959 placed three schizophrenics in the same room, each believing he was {{Jesus}} Christ. Doing so did nothing to relieve them of their delusions, only making it stronger and causing them to fight over which one of them should be worshipped. Eventually they rationalized their conflicting identities with their own explanations, such that the other two were mental patients or that the other two were robots. Two years later, each man still believed he was Jesus, and the doctor in charge of the experiment [[MyGodWhatHaveIDone felt tremendous guilt over the experiment]] and renounced his methods.

* '''TheMessiah vs the DarkMessiah''': One of the classic scenarios with this trope: one of the saviors believes the world is [[CrapsackWorld inherently rotten]], and to save it you have to play by its rules. However, the Dark Messiah CAN be made sympathetic if the world is [[CrapsackWorld enough of a shithole that his methods can clearly be seen as effective]], or he has a [[StartOfDarkness past tragic enough]] that one can see how he'd [[FallenHero end up with a dark outlook in life]]. This can become particualrly interesting if later events [[TheExtremistWasRight prove that the Dark messiah actually kinda knew what he was talking about]].