Follow TV Tropes

Following

History Literature / TidesOfWar

Go To

OR

Added: 1271

Changed: 172

Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* MoralLuck: At the novel's end, Jaina is praised by the Kirin Tor for the strong morals she displayed in her reaction to Theramore's fate. Said reaction was [[spoiler:taking the same artifact used to destroy Theramore, stealing a tome of how to use it from the Kirin Tor, and attempting to destroy Orgrimmar with it. She only does not do so because Thrall physically prevents her, holding her conjured tidal wave in place until he and Kalec talk her down. Perhaps most tellingly, the prevailing argument is that she would be as bad as Garrosh and Arthas, but apparently only if she was successful. If forces outside her control stop her first, then her ethics are still squeaky clean.]]



* SuddenSequelHeelSyndrome: Garrosh was only ever an AntiHero even on his best day, but his actions in this novel are a big leap in the direction of villain. There's no build-up to or backstory for his change in outlook, and even the WordOfGod that he "has a weak core" and could be easily influenced by a ToxicFriendInfluence sounds more like an excuse than an explanation.

to:

* SuddenSequelHeelSyndrome: Garrosh was only ever an AntiHero even on his best day, but his actions in this novel are a big leap in the direction of villain. There's no build-up to or backstory for his change in outlook, and even the WordOfGod that he "has a weak core" and could be easily influenced by a ToxicFriendInfluence sounds more like an excuse than an explanation. In particular, [[spoiler:bombing a population center off the face of the earth]] is something he ''executed'' one of his men for in the expansion that led into this novel.


Added DiffLines:

* WithUsOrAgainstUs: Implied to be how Garrosh rationalizes using [[spoiler:the mana bomb]] when both before and after the events of this novel he distinguishes between killing in battle (honorable) and murder (dishonorable). [[spoiler:He delays the attack on Theramore expressly to give the Alliance time to reinforce the city, so as to maximize the bomb's impact. The Alliance naturally also evacuates the non-combatants from the city while doing this, meaning that everyone left in the city by the time of the bombing had made the conscious decision to stand in the Horde's way.]]
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
Poisonous Friend is no longer a trope


* SuddenSequelHeelSyndrome: Garrosh was only ever an AntiHero even on his best day, but his actions in this novel are a big leap in the direction of villain. There's no build-up to or backstory for his change in outlook, and even the WordOfGod that he "has a weak core" and could be easily influenced by a PoisonousFriend sounds more like an excuse than an explanation.

to:

* SuddenSequelHeelSyndrome: Garrosh was only ever an AntiHero even on his best day, but his actions in this novel are a big leap in the direction of villain. There's no build-up to or backstory for his change in outlook, and even the WordOfGod that he "has a weak core" and could be easily influenced by a PoisonousFriend ToxicFriendInfluence sounds more like an excuse than an explanation.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
Not So Different has been renamed, and it needs to be dewicked/moved


* NotSoDifferent:

to:

* NotSoDifferent: NotSoDifferentRemark:

Added: 373

Removed: 373

Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* BothSidesHaveAPoint: While Jaina is correct that Garrosh is causing rising tensions between the Horde and Alliance, Thrall isn't wrong that Jaina can't blame the current tensions squarely at Garrosh's feet for not all attacks that been initiated by the Horde. It's telling that even though Jaina internally blames Garrosh, she outright admits that Thrall is in the right.



* BothSidesHaveAPoint: While Jaina is correct that Garrosh is causing rising tensions between the Horde and Alliance, Thrall isn't wrong that Jaina can't blame the current tensions squarely at Garrosh's feet for not all attacks that been initiated by the Horde. It's telling that even though Jaina internally blames Garrosh, she outright admits that Thrall is in the right.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* BitterSweetEnding: Jaina is able to snap out of her tempary racism, realize that no, her father was still a monster who deserved his fate, and finally is able to avoid crossing the Moral Event Horizon. But Theramore is still destroyed, war is on the horizon, and her friendship with Thrall is pretty much shot

to:

* BitterSweetEnding: BittersweetEnding: Jaina is able to snap out of her tempary temporary racism, realize and realizes that no, her father was still a monster who deserved his fate, and finally is able to avoid crossing the Moral Event Horizon. MoralEventHorizon. But Theramore is still destroyed, war is on the horizon, and her friendship with Thrall is pretty much shotshot.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


** [[spoiler:Thrall has one himself after learning from Eitrigg (via letter) that Garrosh obliterated Theramore with a mana bomb]].

to:

** [[spoiler:Thrall has one himself after learning from Eitrigg (via letter) messenger) that Garrosh obliterated Theramore with a mana bomb]].
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None

Added DiffLines:

**[[spoiler:Thrall has one himself after learning from Eitrigg (via letter) that Garrosh obliterated Theramore with a mana bomb]].
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


This novel contains examples of:

to:

This !!This novel contains examples of:
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None

Added DiffLines:

* BothSidesHaveAPoint: While Jaina is correct that Garrosh is causing rising tensions between the Horde and Alliance, Thrall isn't wrong that Jaina can't blame the current tensions squarely at Garrosh's feet for not all attacks that been initiated by the Horde. It's telling that even though Jaina internally blames Garrosh, she outright admits that Thrall is in the right.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* BewareTheNiceOnes: Anduin recognizes that the time has come to fight the Horde after [[spoiler:Theramore's destruction]], and this is lampshaded by Varian. Subverted with his reaction to Taurajo though.

to:

* BewareTheNiceOnes: Anduin recognizes that the time has come to fight the Horde after [[spoiler:Theramore's destruction]], and this is lampshaded by Varian. Subverted with his reaction to Taurajo though.

Added: 436

Changed: 221

Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* BewareTheNiceOnes: Baine, when he shows Garrosh a clothing scrap from a dead tauren, saying his orders cost the tauren his life. Anduin recognizes that the time has come to fight the Horde after [[spoiler:Theramore's destruction]], and this is lampshaded by Varian. Subverted with his reaction to Taurajo though.

to:

* BewareTheNiceOnes: Baine, when he shows Garrosh a clothing scrap from a dead tauren, saying his orders cost the tauren his life. Anduin recognizes that the time has come to fight the Horde after [[spoiler:Theramore's destruction]], and this is lampshaded by Varian. Subverted with his reaction to Taurajo though.



* {{Flanderization}}: While Baine was always willing to give peace a chance, he initially was also a proud warrior who made sure to punish anyone who hurt the tauren. In this novel, he is exaggerated to the point he coldly brushes off his civilians being killed in Taurajo and exiles a bunch of tauren for fighting back. Note Baine was originally intended to be angry about [[https://youtu.be/xGdJ6CQu_k4?t=1885 Taurajo's destruction.]]



* KickTheDog: Baine exiling Tauren who disagree with him on his [[EasilyForgiven forgiveness]] towards the Alliance's actions can be seen as this.

to:

* KickTheDog: Baine exiling Tauren who disagree with him on his [[EasilyForgiven forgiveness]] towards the Alliance's actions can be seen as this.this, especially as it included [[https://wow.gamepedia.com/Kirge_Sternhorn grieving widowers with babies to feed]].

Changed: 147

Removed: 167

Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
Not an example of Screw This Im Outta here as its for moral reasons not cowardice


* BewareTheNiceOnes: Baine, when he shows Garrosh a clothing scrap from a dead tauren, saying his orders cost the tauren his life. Anduin recognizes that the time has come to fight the Horde after [[spoiler:Theramore's destruction]], and this is lampshaded by Varian.

to:

* BewareTheNiceOnes: Baine, when he shows Garrosh a clothing scrap from a dead tauren, saying his orders cost the tauren his life. Anduin recognizes that the time has come to fight the Horde after [[spoiler:Theramore's destruction]], and this is lampshaded by Varian. Subverted with his reaction to Taurajo though.



** Baine smears Garrosh's face with a bloody rag from a dead tauren when he sees that Garrosh's plan has resulted in many casualties for seemingly no good reason. [[spoiler:And when he finds out about the mana bomb, he's even less pleased]].

to:

** Baine smears Garrosh's face with a bloody rag from a dead tauren when he sees that Garrosh's plan has resulted in many casualties for seemingly no good reason.reason, though Baine isn't innocent either seeing as he alerted Theramore of the Horde soldier's locations. [[spoiler:And when he finds out about the mana bomb, he's even less pleased]].



* ScrewThisImOuttaHere: Baine and Vol'jin are strongly considering doing this, if not for the said SadisticChoice.



* TokenGoodTeammate: Baine and Vol'jin for the Horde.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


''Jaina Proudmoore: Tides Of War'' is the name of a ''World of Warcraft'' novel by Christie Golden. As her previous work, ''The Shattering: Prelude to Cataclysm'', had done for ''World of Warcraft: Wrath of the Lich King'', this story leads into the World of Warcraft expansion ''World of Warcraft: Mists of Pandaria''.

to:

''Jaina Proudmoore: Tides Of War'' is the name of a ''World of Warcraft'' novel by Christie Golden. As her previous work, ''The Shattering: Prelude to Cataclysm'', had done for ''World of Warcraft: Wrath of the Lich King'', Cataclysm'', this story leads into the World of Warcraft expansion ''World of Warcraft: Mists of Pandaria''.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


''Jaina Proudmoore: Tides Of War'' is the name of a World of Warcraft novel by Christie Golden. As her previous work, ''The Shattering: Prelude to Cataclysm'', had done for ''World of Warcraft: Wrath of the Lich King'', this story leads into the World of Warcraft expansion ''World of Warcraft: Mists of Pandaria''.

to:

''Jaina Proudmoore: Tides Of War'' is the name of a World ''World of Warcraft Warcraft'' novel by Christie Golden. As her previous work, ''The Shattering: Prelude to Cataclysm'', had done for ''World of Warcraft: Wrath of the Lich King'', this story leads into the World of Warcraft expansion ''World of Warcraft: Mists of Pandaria''.



* AdaptationExpansion: "Theramore's Fall" is a scenario in WorldOfWarcraft mainly focuses on the Horde rescuing [[spoiler:Thalen Songweaver]] and the Alliance helping Jaina as she retrieves the Focusing Iris. This focuses on the battle, and its personal impacts on Jaina.

to:

* AdaptationExpansion: "Theramore's Fall" is a scenario in WorldOfWarcraft ''VideoGame/WorldOfWarcraft'' mainly focuses on the Horde rescuing [[spoiler:Thalen Songweaver]] and the Alliance helping Jaina as she retrieves the Focusing Iris. This focuses on the battle, and its personal impacts on Jaina.



* {{Foreshadowing}}: Vol'jin approaches Baine after the meeting with Garrosh and tells him that it was unwise to raise Garrosh's ire, and that he is cautious because of how close the trolls are to Orgrimmar. In WorldOfWarcraft, [[spoiler:Vol'jin is almost killed in the Dagger in the Dark scenario after he objects to Garrosh planning on making saurok minions, he goes into hiding after faking his death, and Garrosh has the Echo Isles occupied]].

to:

* {{Foreshadowing}}: Vol'jin approaches Baine after the meeting with Garrosh and tells him that it was unwise to raise Garrosh's ire, and that he is cautious because of how close the trolls are to Orgrimmar. In WorldOfWarcraft, ''VideoGame/WorldOfWarcraft'', [[spoiler:Vol'jin is almost killed in the Dagger in the Dark scenario after he objects to Garrosh planning on making saurok minions, he goes into hiding after faking his death, and Garrosh has the Echo Isles occupied]].



* LateArrivalSpoiler:You will likely have heard about [[spoiler:Theramore’s fate]] if you play WorldOfWarcraft, but thankfully, the back cover only implies what will happen to it.

to:

* LateArrivalSpoiler:You will likely have heard about [[spoiler:Theramore’s fate]] if you play WorldOfWarcraft, ''VideoGame/WorldOfWarcraft'', but thankfully, the back cover only implies what will happen to it.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


Jaina Proudmoore: Tides Of War is the name of a World of Warcraft novel by Christie Golden. As her previous work, The Shattering: Prelude to Cataclysm, had done for World of Warcraft: Wrath of the Lich King, this story leads into the World of Warcraft expansion World of Warcraft: Mists of Pandaria.

to:

Jaina ''Jaina Proudmoore: Tides Of War War'' is the name of a World of Warcraft novel by Christie Golden. As her previous work, The ''The Shattering: Prelude to Cataclysm, Cataclysm'', had done for World ''World of Warcraft: Wrath of the Lich King, King'', this story leads into the World of Warcraft expansion World ''World of Warcraft: Mists of Pandaria.
Pandaria''.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


-->'''Ol' Durty Pete''': Ye got yer message through, lass. Ye done good. Take yer rest, noo.
-->'''Corproal Teegan''': She’s dead, you idiot.
-->'''Ol' Durty Pete''': I know, laddie, I know.

to:

-->'''Ol' Durty Pete''': Pete:''' Ye got yer message through, lass. Ye done good. Take yer rest, noo.
-->'''Corproal Teegan''':
noo.\\
'''Corproal Teegan:'''
She’s dead, you idiot.
-->'''Ol'
idiot.\\
'''Ol'
Durty Pete''': Pete:''' I know, laddie, I know.



-->'''Jaina Proudmoore (speaking to a statue of her late father)''': You were right, Papa. ''You were right!'' I should have listened!

to:

-->'''Jaina Proudmoore (speaking Proudmoore:''' ''(speaking to a statue of her late father)''': father)'' You were right, Papa. ''You were right!'' I should have listened!



-->'''Varian''': Even lovers of peace despise cowards.

to:

-->'''Varian''': -->'''Varian:''' Even lovers of peace despise cowards.



-->'''Baine''': That, Garrosh, is the blood of a young tauren who died obeying ''your'' orders! ''Your'' commands! The commands have left far too many stiffening in these muddy waters for no purpose! It is a more fitting decoration than your tattoos, Garrosh!"

to:

-->'''Baine''': -->'''Baine:''' That, Garrosh, is the blood of a young tauren who died obeying ''your'' orders! ''Your'' commands! The commands have left far too many stiffening in these muddy waters for no purpose! It is a more fitting decoration than your tattoos, Garrosh!"



-->'''Varian''': You have grown cowardly since we last met. First magnataur, then elementals, then kraken to do your dirty work. Did you run and hide when you [[spoiler:dropped the mana bomb]]? I’m sure you were a safe distance away!

to:

-->'''Varian''': -->'''Varian:''' You have grown cowardly since we last met. First magnataur, then elementals, then kraken to do your dirty work. Did you run and hide when you [[spoiler:dropped the mana bomb]]? I’m sure you were a safe distance away!



-->'''Jaina''':[[spoiler:''Theramore's destruction I lay firmly at your feet, Thrall! You left Garrosh in charge of the Horde! I begged you to come back and remove him from power. I knew he would do something terrible one day, and he has. Garrosh may have done this -- but I blame you for giving him the power to do it!'']]
** Kalec and Thrall give her one as well; Thrall points out that she's using the same artifact Garrosh used to exact her revenge, while Kalec bluntly tells her that she's using the same logic that Arthas used to justify the slaughter of Stratholme, before outright implying that she's being WORSE, since Artahs was acting more out of misguided compassion than hatred, before asking her if that's how she really wants to be remembered. Fortunately, Jaina realizes that they are both right and snaps out of her vendetta.

to:

-->'''Jaina''':[[spoiler:''Theramore's -->'''Jaina:''' [[spoiler:Theramore's destruction I lay firmly at your feet, Thrall! You left Garrosh in charge of the Horde! I begged you to come back and remove him from power. I knew he would do something terrible one day, and he has. Garrosh may have done this -- but I blame you for giving him the power to do it!'']]
it!]]
** Kalec and Thrall give her one as well; Thrall points out that she's using the same artifact Garrosh used to exact her revenge, while Kalec bluntly tells her that she's using the same logic that Arthas used to justify the slaughter of Stratholme, before outright implying that she's being WORSE, since Artahs Arthas was acting more out of misguided compassion than hatred, before asking her if that's how she really wants to be remembered. Fortunately, Jaina realizes that they are both right and snaps out of her vendetta.



-->'''Garrosh''': Does this look like the green skin of Thrall?
-->'''Hamuul''': No, Warchief. No one would ''ever'' mistake you for Thrall.

to:

-->'''Garrosh''': -->'''Garrosh:''' Does this look like the green skin of Thrall?
-->'''Hamuul''':
Thrall?\\
'''Hamuul:'''
No, Warchief. No one would ''ever'' mistake you for Thrall.



-->'''Garrosh''': And now, can you tell me what my decision to wait has brought us?
-->'''Hamuul''': Defeat?

to:

-->'''Garrosh''': -->'''Garrosh:''' And now, can you tell me what my decision to wait has brought us?
-->'''Hamuul''':
us?\\
'''Hamuul:'''
Defeat?



-->'''Jaina''': Its...math!

to:

-->'''Jaina''': Its...-->'''Jaina:''' It's... math!
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* SuddenSequelHeelSyndrome: Garrosh. Dear God, Garrosh. He may have been an abrasive and impulsive person with a taste for glorious victory before, but this book is what sets his StartOfDarkness into motion, and there is neither build up nor explanation offered for his change in outlook.

to:

* SuddenSequelHeelSyndrome: Garrosh. Dear God, Garrosh. He may have been Garrosh was only ever an abrasive and impulsive person with a taste for glorious victory before, AntiHero even on his best day, but his actions in this book is what sets his StartOfDarkness into motion, and there is neither build up nor explanation offered novel are a big leap in the direction of villain. There's no build-up to or backstory for his change in outlook. outlook, and even the WordOfGod that he "has a weak core" and could be easily influenced by a PoisonousFriend sounds more like an excuse than an explanation.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None

Added DiffLines:

[[quoteright:299:http://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/d87bcd97c2df7c62b676ed64e1d6eed0.jpg]]
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None

Added DiffLines:

* DoesThisRemindYouOfAnything: The mana bomb that destroyed Theramore is Warcraft's equivalent of a nuke. The analogy is even stronger when one reads that the mana bomb was engineered after one salvaged from Outland upon the defeat of Kael's blood elves - not unlike the Allies taking nuclear technology from the Germans in the aftermath of WWII. Goes hand-in-hand with the overall "Cold War" stance of the Alliance and Horde.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None

Added DiffLines:

* IdiotBall[=/=]OutOfCharacterMoment: Baine, while nice, was someone [[BewareTheNiceOnes previously willing to fight the Alliance when provoked]], and was of course protective towards the tribes under his command. In one scene in Tides of War, Baine outright says Taurajo's destruction was justified(keep in mind this included the place being Firebombed!), and then proceeded to exile the tauren who disagreed from Thunder Bluff!


Added DiffLines:

* SuddenSequelHeelSyndrome: Garrosh. Dear God, Garrosh. He may have been an abrasive and impulsive person with a taste for glorious victory before, but this book is what sets his StartOfDarkness into motion, and there is neither build up nor explanation offered for his change in outlook.

Added: 459

Removed: 224

Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* EasilyForgiven: Baine claims that the destruction of Camp Taurajo, was justified from a military perspective and carried out as mercifully as possible. Keep in mind, per the quest Flightmare, Taurajo was literally firebombed, this is pretty forgiving. Baine then exiled any tauren who disagree with him on this.



* JerkassHasAPoint: In-universe, Baine concedes that the destruction of Camp Taurajo, a somewhat controversial topic among the player base, was justified from a military perspective and carried out as mercifully as possible.


Added DiffLines:

* KickTheDog: Baine exiling Tauren who disagree with him on his [[EasilyForgiven forgiveness]] towards the Alliance's actions can be seen as this.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None

Added DiffLines:

** Not to mention Garrosh's attack on Theramore.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


*** Kalec and Thrall give her one as well; Thrall points out that she's using the same artifact Garrosh used to exact her revenge, while Kalec bluntly tells her that she's using the same logic that Arthas used to justify the slaughter of Stratholme, before outright implying that she's being WORSE, since Artahs was acting more out of misguided compassion than hatred, before asking her if that's how she really wants to be remembered. Fortunately, Jaina realizes that they are both right and snaps out of her vendetta.

to:

*** ** Kalec and Thrall give her one as well; Thrall points out that she's using the same artifact Garrosh used to exact her revenge, while Kalec bluntly tells her that she's using the same logic that Arthas used to justify the slaughter of Stratholme, before outright implying that she's being WORSE, since Artahs was acting more out of misguided compassion than hatred, before asking her if that's how she really wants to be remembered. Fortunately, Jaina realizes that they are both right and snaps out of her vendetta.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* FantasticRacism: Garrosh; Jaina temporarily becomes one, but after Thrall and Kalec force her to face that she's becoming as monstrous as Arthas (as well as when the residue from the mana bomb wears off) she snaps out of it and while still hostile to the horde, isn't going to murder civilians or view them all as bloodthirsty monsters.

to:

* FantasticRacism: Garrosh; Jaina temporarily becomes one, but after Thrall and Kalec force her to face that she's becoming as monstrous as Arthas (as well as when the residue from the mana bomb wears off) she snaps out of it and while still hostile to the horde, isn't going to murder civilians or view them all as bloodthirsty monsters. It's also briefly implied that Tyrigosa, "princess" of the Blue Dragonflight, doesn't view mortals with the same esteem as Kalecgos does, making her a minor case of this.



** Jaina to one of the Horde soldiers sent to finish her off [[spoiler:after Theramore’s destruction]]

to:

** Jaina to one of the Horde soldiers sent to finish her off [[spoiler:after Theramore’s destruction]]destruction, declaring that if they spit on mercy, they will have none, and vowing that Garrosh will get more blood than he ever bargained for]], before killing them all.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None

Added DiffLines:

* NavalBlockade: Following the destruction of Theramore the Horde navy forms a ring around Kalimdor, blocking Alliance ships from reaching their allies there.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
Hottip cleanup.


* ArmorPiercingQuestion: "Do you really want to be remembered as another Garrosh? Another Arthas[[hottip:note:Jaina refused to cooperate in his culling of Stratholme, which, given the plague of undeath, was arguably more justifiable than what she was planning on doing]]?" After that Jaina snaps out of her racism and rage, mellows out, and while still hostile to the horde, realizes that they aren't all monsters, is not going to kill civillians, and may be willing to mend the fence with Thrall when Garrosh is gone.

to:

* ArmorPiercingQuestion: "Do you really want to be remembered as another Garrosh? Another Arthas[[hottip:note:Jaina Arthas[[note]]Jaina refused to cooperate in his culling of Stratholme, which, given the plague of undeath, was arguably more justifiable than what she was planning on doing]]?" doing[[/note]]?" After that Jaina snaps out of her racism and rage, mellows out, and while still hostile to the horde, realizes that they aren't all monsters, is not going to kill civillians, and may be willing to mend the fence with Thrall when Garrosh is gone.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
It\'s a lot more than implied.


* InterspeciesRomance: One is implied between [[spoiler:Jaina and Kalecgos]].

to:

* InterspeciesRomance: One is implied starts up between [[spoiler:Jaina and Kalecgos]].
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* CurseCutShort: "We can wipe out every one of the green-skinned sons of-" "Jaina!"

to:

* CurseCutShort: "We can wipe out every one of the those green-skinned sons of-" "Jaina!"
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None

Added DiffLines:

* CurseCutShort: "We can wipe out every one of the green-skinned sons of-" "Jaina!"
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* AscendedExtra: Windle Sparkshine, Kinnidy's father is a minor NPC in Dalaran who doesn't offer any essential services.

to:

* AscendedExtra: Windle Sparkshine, Kinnidy's Kinndy's father is a minor NPC in Dalaran who doesn't offer any essential services.

Top