Follow TV Tropes

Following

History Headscratchers / TheDarkKnightTrilogy

Go To


Added DiffLines:

[[/folder]]

[[folder: Where exactly is Gotham located geographically?]]
* In ''Begins'', Alfred says that Bruce's ancestors once used the caves under the mansion to transport escaped slaves on the Underground Railroad, but Gotham is an island city that gets winters so harsh they cause the massive rivers surrounding it to freeze (the real-life city used for landscape shots is Manhattan, located in one of the farthest-north states in the country). Where could it be located such that it makes for a reasonable stop for slaves escaping to above the Mason-Dixon that is also far-north enough to receive such extreme cold during the winter?
** The [[https://www.iloveny.com/things-to-do/history/underground-railroad/ Underground]] [[https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/little-known-history-underground-railroad-new-york-180953927/ Railroad]] ran all the way to Canada, so being about New York-ish is perfectly fine.


** The guy captured the freaking joker. I think that deserves a promotion.

to:

** The guy captured the freaking joker.Joker. I think that deserves a promotion.


* The consensus on this wiki seems to be that [[FanNickname Baleman]] is not using a voice modulator (unlike [[Franchise/DCExtendedUniverse Batfleck]] who unambiguously ''does'' have an artificial, robotic-sounding vocal tone in his batsuits)) but the jury may be out here. If he was just putting on a growly tone all the time, he could hurt his vocal cords (the fact that apparently Christian Bale himself had training to do this safely for the portrayal notwithstanding; further, he likely did a good amount of this as overdubbing from the comfort of the voice over booth, rather than in the heat of the moment of a scene take) and it's like one more thing he shouldn't need to concern himself with actively putting on when an autonomous voice modulator could take care of that for him. Why not use a modulator to distort the voice, masking him to everyone he interacts with for security and also creating an intimidation factor, rather than making an active effort and risking screwing it up? People may bring up the fact that he sometimes speaks in a normal tone (e.g. when he's being choked by Ra's Al Guhl in ''Begins'', or when he's stabbed in ''Rises'') as evidence against a modulator. But it may be both that he has some control to adjust the modulator (maybe his suit's gloves can be flexed in a certain way to turn it on or off) as he sees fit, and also that the modulator is programmed to adjust when the user's base voice is strained (as it would be when he is choked or stabbed. If he's shocked and high pitched after a stab in the ribs, the modulator will pitch shift this to what sounds like Bruce's normal speaking voice, but it still coming across as strained). So, is it possible that he does in fact have a modulator in this movie trilogy and it's supplemental works? If so, then therefore, other articles on the wiki would have to be adjusted to account for the possibility.

to:

* The consensus on this wiki seems to be that [[FanNickname Baleman]] is not using a voice modulator (unlike [[Franchise/DCExtendedUniverse Batfleck]] who unambiguously ''does'' have an artificial, robotic-sounding vocal tone in his batsuits)) batsuits) but the jury may be out here. If he was just putting on a growly tone all the time, he could hurt his vocal cords (the fact that apparently Christian Bale himself had training to do this safely for the portrayal notwithstanding; further, he likely did a good amount of this as overdubbing from the comfort of the voice over booth, rather than in the heat of the moment of a scene take) and it's like one more thing he shouldn't need to concern himself with actively putting on when an autonomous voice modulator could take care of that for him. Why not use a modulator to distort the voice, masking him to everyone he interacts with for security and also creating an intimidation factor, rather than making an active effort and risking screwing it up? People may bring up the fact that he sometimes speaks in a normal tone (e.g. when he's being choked by Ra's Al Guhl in ''Begins'', or when he's stabbed in ''Rises'') as evidence against a modulator. But it may be both that he has some control to adjust the modulator (maybe his suit's gloves can be flexed in a certain way to turn it on or off) as he sees fit, and also that the modulator is programmed to adjust when the user's base voice is strained (as it would be when he is choked or stabbed. If he's shocked and high pitched after a stab in the ribs, the modulator will pitch shift this to what sounds like Bruce's normal speaking voice, but it still coming across as strained). So, is it possible that he does in fact have a modulator in this movie trilogy and it's supplemental works? If so, then therefore, other articles on the wiki would have to be adjusted to account for the possibility.


* The consensus on this wiki seems to be that [[FanNickname Baleman]] is not using a voice modulator (unlike [[Franchise/DCExtendedUniverse Batfleck]] who unambiguously ''does'' have an artificial, robotic-sounding vocal tone in his batsuits)) but the jury may be out here. If he was just putting on a growly tone all the time, he could hurt his vocal cords (the fact that apparently Christian Bale himself had training to do this safely for the portrayal nonwithstanding; further, he likely did a good amount of this as overdubbing from the comfort of the voice over booth, rather than in the heat of the moment of a scene take) and it's like one more thing he shouldn't need to concern himself with actively putting on when an autonomous voice modulator could take care of that for him. Why not use a modulator to distort the voice, masking him to everyone he interacts with for security and also creating an intimidation factor, rather than making an active effort and risking screwing it up? People may bring up the fact that he sometimes speaks in a normal tone (e.g. when he's being choked by Ra's Al Guhl in ''Begins'', or when he's stabbed in ''Rises'') as evidence against a modulator. But it may be both that he has some control to adjust the modulator (maybe his suit's gloves can be flexed in a certain way to turn it on or off) as he sees fit, and also that the modulator is programmed to adjust when the user's base voice is strained (as it would be when he is choked or stabbed. If he's shocked and high pitched after a stab in the ribs, the modulator will pitch shift this to what sounds like Bruce's normal speaking voice, but still coming across as strained). So, is it possible that he does in fact have a modulator in this movie trilogy and it's supplemental works? If so, then therefore, other articles on the wiki would have to be adjusted to account for the possibility.

to:

* The consensus on this wiki seems to be that [[FanNickname Baleman]] is not using a voice modulator (unlike [[Franchise/DCExtendedUniverse Batfleck]] who unambiguously ''does'' have an artificial, robotic-sounding vocal tone in his batsuits)) but the jury may be out here. If he was just putting on a growly tone all the time, he could hurt his vocal cords (the fact that apparently Christian Bale himself had training to do this safely for the portrayal nonwithstanding; notwithstanding; further, he likely did a good amount of this as overdubbing from the comfort of the voice over booth, rather than in the heat of the moment of a scene take) and it's like one more thing he shouldn't need to concern himself with actively putting on when an autonomous voice modulator could take care of that for him. Why not use a modulator to distort the voice, masking him to everyone he interacts with for security and also creating an intimidation factor, rather than making an active effort and risking screwing it up? People may bring up the fact that he sometimes speaks in a normal tone (e.g. when he's being choked by Ra's Al Guhl in ''Begins'', or when he's stabbed in ''Rises'') as evidence against a modulator. But it may be both that he has some control to adjust the modulator (maybe his suit's gloves can be flexed in a certain way to turn it on or off) as he sees fit, and also that the modulator is programmed to adjust when the user's base voice is strained (as it would be when he is choked or stabbed. If he's shocked and high pitched after a stab in the ribs, the modulator will pitch shift this to what sounds like Bruce's normal speaking voice, but it still coming across as strained). So, is it possible that he does in fact have a modulator in this movie trilogy and it's supplemental works? If so, then therefore, other articles on the wiki would have to be adjusted to account for the possibility.


* The consensus on this wiki seems to be that [[FanNickname Baleman]] is not using a voice modulator (unlike [[Franchise/DCExtendedUniverse Batfleck]] who unambiguously ''does'' have an artificial, robotic-sounding vocal tone in his batsuits)) but the jury may be out here. If he was just putting on a growly tone all the time, he could hurt his vocal cords (the fact that apparently Christian Bale himself had training to do this safely for the portrayal nonwithstanding) and it's like one more thing he shouldn't need to concern himself with actively putting on when an autonomous voice modulator could take care of that for him. Why not use a modulator to distort the voice, masking him to everyone he interacts with for security and also creating an intimidation factor, rather than making an active effort and risking screwing it up? People may bring up the fact that he sometimes speaks in a normal tone (e.g. when he's being choked by Ra's Al Guhl in ''Begins'', or when he's stabbed in ''Rises'') as evidence against a modulator. But it may be both that he has some control to adjust the modulator (maybe his suit's gloves can be flexed in a certain way to turn it on or off) as he sees fit, and also that the modulator is programmed to adjust when the user's base voice is strained (as it would be when he is choked or stabbed. If he's shocked and high pitched after a stab in the ribs, the modulator will pitch shift this to what sounds like Bruce's normal speaking voice, but still coming across as strained). So, is it possible that he does in fact have a modulator in this movie trilogy and it's supplemental works? If so, then therefore, other articles on the wiki would have to be adjusted to account for the possibility.

to:

* The consensus on this wiki seems to be that [[FanNickname Baleman]] is not using a voice modulator (unlike [[Franchise/DCExtendedUniverse Batfleck]] who unambiguously ''does'' have an artificial, robotic-sounding vocal tone in his batsuits)) but the jury may be out here. If he was just putting on a growly tone all the time, he could hurt his vocal cords (the fact that apparently Christian Bale himself had training to do this safely for the portrayal nonwithstanding) nonwithstanding; further, he likely did a good amount of this as overdubbing from the comfort of the voice over booth, rather than in the heat of the moment of a scene take) and it's like one more thing he shouldn't need to concern himself with actively putting on when an autonomous voice modulator could take care of that for him. Why not use a modulator to distort the voice, masking him to everyone he interacts with for security and also creating an intimidation factor, rather than making an active effort and risking screwing it up? People may bring up the fact that he sometimes speaks in a normal tone (e.g. when he's being choked by Ra's Al Guhl in ''Begins'', or when he's stabbed in ''Rises'') as evidence against a modulator. But it may be both that he has some control to adjust the modulator (maybe his suit's gloves can be flexed in a certain way to turn it on or off) as he sees fit, and also that the modulator is programmed to adjust when the user's base voice is strained (as it would be when he is choked or stabbed. If he's shocked and high pitched after a stab in the ribs, the modulator will pitch shift this to what sounds like Bruce's normal speaking voice, but still coming across as strained). So, is it possible that he does in fact have a modulator in this movie trilogy and it's supplemental works? If so, then therefore, other articles on the wiki would have to be adjusted to account for the possibility.


* The consensus on this wiki seems to be that [[FanNickname Baleman]] is not using a voice modulator (unlike [[DCExtendedUniverse Batfleck]] who unambiguously ''does'' have an artificial, robotic-sounding vocal tone in his batsuits)) but the jury may be out here. If he was just putting on a growly tone all the time, he could hurt his vocal cords (the fact that apparently Christian Bale himself had training to do this safely for the portrayal nonwithstanding) and it's like one more thing he shouldn't need to concern himself with actively putting on when an autonomous voice modulator could take care of that for him. Why not use a modulator to distort the voice, masking him to everyone he interacts with for security and also creating an intimidation factor, rather than making an active effort and risking screwing it up? People may bring up the fact that he sometimes speaks in a normal tone (e.g. when he's being choked by Ra's Al Guhl in ''Begins'', or when he's stabbed in ''Rises'') as evidence against a modulator. But it may be both that he has some control to adjust the modulator (maybe his suit's gloves can be flexed in a certain way to turn it on or off) as he sees fit, and also that the modulator is programmed to adjust when the user's base voice is strained (as it would be when he is choked or stabbed. If he's shocked and high pitched after a stab in the ribs, the modulator will pitch shift this to what sounds like Bruce's normal speaking voice, but still coming across as strained). So, is it possible that he does in fact have a modulator in this movie trilogy and it's supplemental works? If so, then therefore, other articles on the wiki would have to be adjusted to account for the possibility.

to:

* The consensus on this wiki seems to be that [[FanNickname Baleman]] is not using a voice modulator (unlike [[DCExtendedUniverse [[Franchise/DCExtendedUniverse Batfleck]] who unambiguously ''does'' have an artificial, robotic-sounding vocal tone in his batsuits)) but the jury may be out here. If he was just putting on a growly tone all the time, he could hurt his vocal cords (the fact that apparently Christian Bale himself had training to do this safely for the portrayal nonwithstanding) and it's like one more thing he shouldn't need to concern himself with actively putting on when an autonomous voice modulator could take care of that for him. Why not use a modulator to distort the voice, masking him to everyone he interacts with for security and also creating an intimidation factor, rather than making an active effort and risking screwing it up? People may bring up the fact that he sometimes speaks in a normal tone (e.g. when he's being choked by Ra's Al Guhl in ''Begins'', or when he's stabbed in ''Rises'') as evidence against a modulator. But it may be both that he has some control to adjust the modulator (maybe his suit's gloves can be flexed in a certain way to turn it on or off) as he sees fit, and also that the modulator is programmed to adjust when the user's base voice is strained (as it would be when he is choked or stabbed. If he's shocked and high pitched after a stab in the ribs, the modulator will pitch shift this to what sounds like Bruce's normal speaking voice, but still coming across as strained). So, is it possible that he does in fact have a modulator in this movie trilogy and it's supplemental works? If so, then therefore, other articles on the wiki would have to be adjusted to account for the possibility.possibility.
[[/folder]]


[[/folder]]

to:

[[/folder]][[/folder]]

[[folder: Voice modulator, or just an affect?]]
* The consensus on this wiki seems to be that [[FanNickname Baleman]] is not using a voice modulator (unlike [[DCExtendedUniverse Batfleck]] who unambiguously ''does'' have an artificial, robotic-sounding vocal tone in his batsuits)) but the jury may be out here. If he was just putting on a growly tone all the time, he could hurt his vocal cords (the fact that apparently Christian Bale himself had training to do this safely for the portrayal nonwithstanding) and it's like one more thing he shouldn't need to concern himself with actively putting on when an autonomous voice modulator could take care of that for him. Why not use a modulator to distort the voice, masking him to everyone he interacts with for security and also creating an intimidation factor, rather than making an active effort and risking screwing it up? People may bring up the fact that he sometimes speaks in a normal tone (e.g. when he's being choked by Ra's Al Guhl in ''Begins'', or when he's stabbed in ''Rises'') as evidence against a modulator. But it may be both that he has some control to adjust the modulator (maybe his suit's gloves can be flexed in a certain way to turn it on or off) as he sees fit, and also that the modulator is programmed to adjust when the user's base voice is strained (as it would be when he is choked or stabbed. If he's shocked and high pitched after a stab in the ribs, the modulator will pitch shift this to what sounds like Bruce's normal speaking voice, but still coming across as strained). So, is it possible that he does in fact have a modulator in this movie trilogy and it's supplemental works? If so, then therefore, other articles on the wiki would have to be adjusted to account for the possibility.


[[folder:Robin]]
* It kinda bugs me why Nolan refused to incorporate Robin in the trilogy. I mean, yes, I do understand that the addition of Robin will add some light-heartedness that Nolan is trying to avoid. However, I recall that there are some serious contents that can be done with Robin and they can still make it 'With sidekick, but STILL gritty'. For instance, the first instance of Dick Grayson quitting as Robin (due to injury) can be incorporated. So let's say for the next part, Robin is featured and is eager to be Batman's sidekick, but Batman kept refusing his offers. He lets up, and lets Robin join the climax battle... only for Robin to be gravely wounded (might be in a bizarre way) and in the end of the movie, Batman told him to quit, Robin reluctantly agrees and they go separate ways, Batman resumes being solo again, and now with knowledge that "It's dangerous to take sidekicks". How is that 'light hearted'?
** Well, for one thing, that will '''''majorly''''' piss off Robin's fans. Introduce him just to have him get a [[DroppedABridgeOnHim bridge dropped on him]] to teach Batman a lesson that his job is dangerous? Of '''course''' it's too dangerous to have a freaking kid with him. That's why he wears '''''state of the art body armor''''', and he ''still'' takes pretty bad injuries on a nightly basis.\\
\\
Plus, the scenario you described is a movie all about Robin. A movie all about Robin where he learns that it's too dangerous to be Robin. I dunno about you, but do you want a Batman movie that's not about Batman, that ends up as a ShaggyDogStory? I'm a big fan of the Boy Wonder (particularly Tim Drake), but I would ''hate'' a movie with that scenario.
** To be honest though, there was actually only one movie about ''Film/BatmanBegins''.
** And Nolan has a point. Bruce Wayne is still fairly young, Dick Grayson is still in kindergarten somewhere. I don't want Robin to be in any Batman movie just 'cause the audience expects it to be a package deal. If the director thinks Robin would be a meaningful addition to the plot, and they've found the right actor to pull it off, more power to them, but until then stop demanding a character be shoehorned in.
** Think about this: in the first two movies, almost every incident Bruce has been involved in has ended with him being suffering from at least one serious injury. He's been set on fire, beaten severely, dangled underneath a train, been dosed with fear toxin, mauled by a dog, thrown into a support beam in a parking garage, had his vehicle destroyed, was thrown off the other vehicle he used and was shot. Now, considering how screwed up Gotham is at this point (the Joker may be gone, but most of Arkham's inmates are on the loose), would you ''really'' want to introduce a young kid or teenager trying to fight crime into this mix? If anything, any interpretation of Robin should (at the very least) be outfitted in the same body armor Bruce wears.
** Incidentally, ''WesternAnimation/BatmanTheBraveAndTheBold'' sidestepped the whole thing by revealing that Robin had already split off as an independent hero himself before the series started.
** As of ''Film/TheDarkKnightRises'', it has been revealed that Christopher Nolan and Christian Bale both outright lied about not incorporating Robin, and that Joseph Gordon-Levitt supported them by not saying anything to prove otherwise. Robin John Blake is a composite of Dick Grayson, Tim Drake, and Jason Todd, who discovers the Batcave at the end.
** This is hardly a lie. John Blake is a composite character based on some aspects of the backstory of Robin, certainly, and he's named 'Robin' as a cutesy little shout-out, but he's hardly the same character. He doesn't act as Batman's sidekick, he doesn't put red, green and yellow tights on, he doesn't become a superhero until the very end... he is to all intents and purposes an original character who has some nods to the character of Robin as a homage.
** As interesting a character as some of the Robins can be, I have always thought them an unnecessary and emotionally/thematically stifling addition to the Batman mythos. Think about it: criminals are a cowardly, superstitious lot. He must become a creature of the night: black, fierce, terrible...with this twelve-year-old, wisecracking, wholesome fellow in brightly-colored circus clothes flipping about nearby!
** While I respect Nolan for pursuing his own vision of the series and for only including characters he feels he can use well, this argument -- the argument that Robin ''must always'' be tonally inconsistent with a darker Batverse -- is a minor pet peeve of mine. I consider it the [[TheWarOnStraw Straw Robin]] argument. In a reboot where [[DarkerAndEdgier every element of the mythos is being reinterpreted to create a darker and more "realistic" tone]], why assume Robin would have to be a [[LighterAndFluffier garish little ray of sunshine that spews bad puns and wears pixie boots]]?
** Some AlternativeCharacterInterpretation[=s=] claim that Robin's ''real'' purpose is just to be a distraction. Canonically, he needs a lighter influence to balance his own darkness. Which makes Damien hilarious when you realize that he's even more GRIMDARK than Bruce or Dick ever were.
** This was also back in the day when everyone and their mother was getting a kid sidekick. Seriously. DC was crazy-bad with that. Even ''Aquaman'', the joke of DC, got a sidekick. (Though my favorite, just in concept, was Green Arrow's sidekick Speedy who wore red and, much later in the comic, developed a heroin habit. Almost as nutty as that was the Flash's sidekick, who just happened to be involved in nearly the exact same accident hoopla.) The Robin concept's just basically the only one that actually made a permanent mark.
** I've never bought into the concept of Robin either, although I can tolerate him (in varying degrees depending on who the Robin and writer are). None of the excuses I've heard for his existence come within a thousand miles of holding water. Batman has plenty of ways of distracting criminals. ''He's the goddamn Batman.'' Hello? He needs no one's outside help in that regard, and if he did, he wouldn't be the same. If he needs anyone to team up with, there's always the Justice League or any of the other crime fighters who live in the Gotham area, or they could just make up a new guy. As for needing someone to confide in and be close to so that he won't have to suffer alone (would it be so bad if he did? May I remind you who we're talking about here?), he has Alfred. And whatever rationalizations people may come up with for the concept, the fact remains that ''a menacing bat-like shape speaking from the shadows in an infernal voice'' loses some of its effect when it's accompanied by an unfunny, brightly colored thirteen-year-old wisecracker.
** On the other hand: [[YouCannotGraspTheTrueForm incomprehensible is scary]]. If there's no reason for Robin that the average mook can discern, than he's probably making Batman seem more intimidating, not less. See also: dressing up like a bat.
** Or just don't have him be Robin yet. Have Bruce adopt Dick after he's orphaned. Of Course Dick finds out Bruce is Batman. Bruce tries to dissuade him from becoming a vigilante, but of course it doesn't work. So Bruce begins training him. But only training him at this point. It'll take years before Bruce is going to consider Dick trained enough to join him on the streets. So you can set up for Robin, but not have Batman performing child endangerment.
** "have Bruce adopt Dick" um... as Bruce's public image is probably somewhere between Paris Hilton and Kim Kardashian, except you know, a dude, any judge that gives him sole custody of a minor would be up for review... especially in light of the still recent "burning down the house" episode so w/o a real good reason why would Bruce invite the scrutiny
** I always liked the explanation for Robin from New Frontier - that Batman had him help with situations where there were kids in peril/involved, because having Robin around made him seem more approachable and kept the ''children'' from running away in terror, when he only wanted the criminals to. Another thing that always helped me deal with the idea of Robin was the very, very crucial concept that ''Robin does not go along for every mission''. With regards to his effect on Batman's own dark and formidable image, that's easily explained by the differences in mentalities between kids and adults. Kids see Batman hanging around with another kid and find him less scary, since, obviously, he doesn't mind kids. Adults see Batman assigning a ''child'' to ''fight crime'' and assume that he is too cold to care what happens to him. Also, the brightly colored thing - well, by the time Robin turns up in Gotham, I think most Gothamites (honest or otherwise) would find bright and cheerful colors ''much more terrifying'' than simple black. Still don't think he should be in Nolan's movies, though. Robin is (usually) a sign that whatever he's in is kid-friendly.
** I think Batman took a Robin not because he needed him for something but essentially to give Dick a chance at having his own revenge. He saw this kid who had his parents killed by criminals in front of him, only without Bruce's resources, and decided that, like him, the boy deserves a payback. Besides, Batman probably realizes that he isn't an immortal and doesn't want his accomplishments to die with him, so he raises himself a replacement who needs to 'practice'.
** One comic stated that when Batman and Robin save people Batman would stop their attackers while Robin would be the one to actually make sure the victim is alright. Batman has to appear as this infernal force of vengeance in the minds of Gotham, which is really incompatible with soothing a hysterical victim. Batman exists to terrorize the guilty, Robin to protect the innocent.

[[/folder]]


* In ''Gotham Knight'', NekoInc can't help but observe that Batman looks a teeensy bit ''too'' much like, of all people, [[Manga/DeathNote Yagami Light]]. And it ''wigs him out''... Maybe he's just seeing things, though.

to:

* In ''Gotham Knight'', NekoInc can't help but observe that Batman looks a teeensy bit ''too'' much like, of all people, [[Manga/DeathNote Yagami Light]]. And it ''wigs him out''... Maybe he's just seeing things, though.



to:

** Also, because Gotham's a fictional city, which means they can call it whatever they want. If they just wanted to completely mirror New York City, they'd just set the film in New York City.


* The new Batsuit is composed of 110 individual pieces. How does Bruce get into it so fast? It took him like 3 minutes after the Joker appeared at the part. Does he have a bunch of robot helpers like [[Film/IronMan Stark]]?

to:

* The new Batsuit is composed of 110 individual pieces. How does Bruce get into it so fast? It took him like 3 minutes after the Joker appeared at the part. Does he have a bunch of robot helpers like [[Film/IronMan [[Film/IronMan1 Stark]]?


** I've never bought into the concept of Robin either, although I can tolerate him (in varying degrees depending on who the Robin and writer are). None of the excuses I've heard for his existence come within a thousand miles of holding water. Batman has plenty of ways of distracting criminals. ''He's the goddamn Batman.'' Hello? He needs no one's outside help in that regard, and if he did, he wouldn't be the same. If he needs anyone to team up with, there's always the Justice League or any of the other crime fighters who live in the Gotham area, or they could just make up a new guy. As for needing someone to confide in and be close to so that he won't have to suffer alone (would it be so bad if he did? [[CaptainObvious May I remind you who we're talking about here]]?), he has Alfred. And whatever rationalizations people may come up with for the concept, the fact remains that ''a menacing bat-like shape speaking from the shadows in an infernal voice'' loses some of its effect when it's accompanied by an unfunny, brightly colored thirteen-year-old wisecracker.

to:

** I've never bought into the concept of Robin either, although I can tolerate him (in varying degrees depending on who the Robin and writer are). None of the excuses I've heard for his existence come within a thousand miles of holding water. Batman has plenty of ways of distracting criminals. ''He's the goddamn Batman.'' Hello? He needs no one's outside help in that regard, and if he did, he wouldn't be the same. If he needs anyone to team up with, there's always the Justice League or any of the other crime fighters who live in the Gotham area, or they could just make up a new guy. As for needing someone to confide in and be close to so that he won't have to suffer alone (would it be so bad if he did? [[CaptainObvious May I remind you who we're talking about here]]?), here?), he has Alfred. And whatever rationalizations people may come up with for the concept, the fact remains that ''a menacing bat-like shape speaking from the shadows in an infernal voice'' loses some of its effect when it's accompanied by an unfunny, brightly colored thirteen-year-old wisecracker.


** [[spoiler:As of ''Film/TheDarkKnightRises'', it has been revealed that Christopher Nolan and Christian Bale both outright lied about not incorporating Robin, and that Joseph Gordon-Levitt supported them by not saying anything to prove otherwise. Robin John Blake is a composite of Dick Grayson, Tim Drake, and Jason Todd, who discovers the Batcave at the end.]]
** [[spoiler: This is hardly a lie. John Blake is a composite character based on some aspects of the backstory of Robin, certainly, and he's named 'Robin' as a cutesy little shout-out, but he's hardly the same character. He doesn't act as Batman's sidekick, he doesn't put red, green and yellow tights on, he doesn't become a superhero until the very end... he is to all intents and purposes an original character who has some nods to the character of Robin as a homage.]]

to:

** [[spoiler:As As of ''Film/TheDarkKnightRises'', it has been revealed that Christopher Nolan and Christian Bale both outright lied about not incorporating Robin, and that Joseph Gordon-Levitt supported them by not saying anything to prove otherwise. Robin John Blake is a composite of Dick Grayson, Tim Drake, and Jason Todd, who discovers the Batcave at the end.]]
** [[spoiler: This
end.
**This
is hardly a lie. John Blake is a composite character based on some aspects of the backstory of Robin, certainly, and he's named 'Robin' as a cutesy little shout-out, but he's hardly the same character. He doesn't act as Batman's sidekick, he doesn't put red, green and yellow tights on, he doesn't become a superhero until the very end... he is to all intents and purposes an original character who has some nods to the character of Robin as a homage.]]



** As ''Film/TheDarkKnightRises'' reveals, yep, The League of Shadows is back, with Bane[[spoiler:, as well as Talia,]] as its leader, with the goal of finishing what Ra's started in the first film.

to:

** As ''Film/TheDarkKnightRises'' reveals, yep, The League of Shadows is back, with Bane[[spoiler:, Bane, as well as Talia,]] Talia, as its leader, with the goal of finishing what Ra's started in the first film.



* The scene where the Joker [[spoiler: sets all the money he is paid by the mob bosses on fire]] was fairly interesting, and one of the few moments where the Joker stops being profoundly terrifying for a minute and is funny again. Until half an hour after walking out of the theater, when I thought back, and remembered that '''there was a man, bound and gagged, sitting on top of the money'''. And the camera cuts had managed to make me forget about it by simply not showing him. It turned the scene all the way around to "creepy" again.

to:

* The scene where the Joker [[spoiler: sets all the money he is paid by the mob bosses on fire]] fire was fairly interesting, and one of the few moments where the Joker stops being profoundly terrifying for a minute and is funny again. Until half an hour after walking out of the theater, when I thought back, and remembered that '''there was a man, bound and gagged, sitting on top of the money'''. And the camera cuts had managed to make me forget about it by simply not showing him. It turned the scene all the way around to "creepy" again.



** In the scene where Harvey Dent is at the dinner party, shortly before the Joker arrives, he has a conversation with Alfred. He asks him "So you've known Rachel your whole life?". He replies "Not yet, sir." [[spoiler: Guess who dies first?]]

to:

** In the scene where Harvey Dent is at the dinner party, shortly before the Joker arrives, he has a conversation with Alfred. He asks him "So you've known Rachel your whole life?". He replies "Not yet, sir." [[spoiler: Guess who dies first?]]first?



** To add more,"Give it to me and I'll do what you should have done 10 minutes ago." [[LikeYouWouldReallyDoIt Some of us think that scary black man is going to blow them up]]. [[spoiler: He didn't.]] The brilliant part is, he basically telling the cop: "Give it to me and I'll do what you should have done ''[[WhatTheHellHero as sworn officer of this state and public servant]]'', 10 minutes ago."
** I always had the idea that EvenEvilHasStandards in regard to the criminals on the boat. Hence why the ScaryBlackMan [[spoiler:threw out that detonator]].

to:

** To add more,"Give it to me and I'll do what you should have done 10 minutes ago." [[LikeYouWouldReallyDoIt Some of us think that scary black man is going to blow them up]]. [[spoiler: He didn't.]] didn't. The brilliant part is, he basically telling the cop: "Give it to me and I'll do what you should have done ''[[WhatTheHellHero as sworn officer of this state and public servant]]'', 10 minutes ago."
** I always had the idea that EvenEvilHasStandards in regard to the criminals on the boat. Hence why the ScaryBlackMan [[spoiler:threw [threw out that detonator]].detonator.



** It wasn't until I got home from the theater that I grasped the subtleties of the ending. [[spoiler: Earlier in the film, it is very briefly alluded to that Batman is having difficulty: the criminals of Gotham have figured out that Batman won't kill them, and they no longer fear him as they once did. By accepting the blame for the killings committed by Two-Face, Batman not only prevents Dent's name from being tarnished, but he gives the crooks reason to believe that he's willing to kill. They have a reason to fear him again, and Batman doesn't need to violate his code against killing.]]

to:

** It wasn't until I got home from the theater that I grasped the subtleties of the ending. [[spoiler: Earlier in the film, it is very briefly alluded to that Batman is having difficulty: the criminals of Gotham have figured out that Batman won't kill them, and they no longer fear him as they once did. By accepting the blame for the killings committed by Two-Face, Batman not only prevents Dent's name from being tarnished, but he gives the crooks reason to believe that he's willing to kill. They have a reason to fear him again, and Batman doesn't need to violate his code against killing.]]



** There is a further, stronger, parallel between Alfred and Bruce across ''Batman Begins'' & ''The Dark Knight''. In ''Batman Begins'', there is a subtext of Bruce searching for a father figure, which by the end of the movie and throughout ''The Dark Knight'', is Alfred. When Rachel gives Alfred her letter to Bruce, Alfred [[spoiler: reads and then later burns the letter because its contents would destroy Bruce after he'd sacrificed so much.]] For Alfred, the truth is not as important as giving people the reward they deserve and the drive to keep going. Then, at the end of ''The Dark Knight'', [[spoiler: Bruce/Batman takes the blame for Two Face's murders]], and he gives the reason that "the truth isn't good enough. Sometimes people deserve more. Sometimes people deserve to have their faith rewarded". Bruce has taken on Alfred as a father figure so completely that he's internalized Alfred's values and is expressing them as Batman, and without even realizing that Alfred is treating him the same way. The fact that Batman delivers his reasoning as a voice-over to Alfred [[spoiler: burning the letter]] is very anvilicious.

to:

** There is a further, stronger, parallel between Alfred and Bruce across ''Batman Begins'' & ''The Dark Knight''. In ''Batman Begins'', there is a subtext of Bruce searching for a father figure, which by the end of the movie and throughout ''The Dark Knight'', is Alfred. When Rachel gives Alfred her letter to Bruce, Alfred [[spoiler: reads and then later burns the letter because its contents would destroy Bruce after he'd sacrificed so much.]] much. For Alfred, the truth is not as important as giving people the reward they deserve and the drive to keep going. Then, at the end of ''The Dark Knight'', [[spoiler: Bruce/Batman takes the blame for Two Face's murders]], murders, and he gives the reason that "the truth isn't good enough. Sometimes people deserve more. Sometimes people deserve to have their faith rewarded". Bruce has taken on Alfred as a father figure so completely that he's internalized Alfred's values and is expressing them as Batman, and without even realizing that Alfred is treating him the same way. The fact that Batman delivers his reasoning as a voice-over to Alfred [[spoiler: burning the letter]] letter is very anvilicious.



** What I took from Alfred's line was that it had to do with Batman's use of the [[spoiler: cellphone sonar device]], which in [[spoiler: Lucius's]] eyes seems incredibly immoral. Just as Alfred exposes the thief by burning down his hiding place, Batman exposes the Joker by removing all of the privacy and anonymity of not only the Joker, but all of Gotham.

to:

** What I took from Alfred's line was that it had to do with Batman's use of the [[spoiler: cellphone sonar device]], device, which in [[spoiler: Lucius's]] Lucius's eyes seems incredibly immoral. Just as Alfred exposes the thief by burning down his hiding place, Batman exposes the Joker by removing all of the privacy and anonymity of not only the Joker, but all of Gotham.


* The soundtrack for ''Batman Begins'' gave each track a seemingly random-word title. Any idea why Hans Zimmer and James Newton Howard dropped this practice from the sequels?

to:

* The soundtrack for ''Batman Begins'' gave each track a seemingly random-word title. Any idea why Hans Zimmer Music/HansZimmer and James Newton Howard Music/JamesNewtonHoward dropped this practice from the sequels?


''[-New entries go on the bottom of each section. The individual films' {{Headscratchers}} can be found at Headscratchers/BatmanBegins, Headscratchers/TheDarkKnight, Headscratchers/TheDarkKnightRises.-]''

to:

''[-New entries go on the bottom of each section. The individual films' {{Headscratchers}} [[Headscratchers/HomePage Headscratchers]] can be found at Headscratchers/BatmanBegins, Headscratchers/TheDarkKnight, Headscratchers/TheDarkKnightRises.-]''

Showing 15 edit(s) of 67

Top

How well does it match the trope?

Example of:

/

Media sources:

/

Report