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** Not quite. As explained above, nobody can convict him of anything, because nobody can testify with certainty that he wilfully caused the surrogates to be destroyed. For all the techie knew he just thought a bit too long and was about to hit Y, like every good citizen would, when he was shot by the cop.

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** Not quite. As explained above, nobody can convict him of anything, because nobody can testify with certainty that he wilfully caused the surrogates to be destroyed. For all the techie knew he just thought a bit too long and was about to hit Y, like every good citizen would, when he was shot by the cop. And the cop himself, of course, didn't know the surrogate was now moved by Greer, so he had no fault either. The blame would, most likely, go to Canter - who, of course, can't be arrested, what with being dead and all.
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** All of the above.

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** All of the above.above.
** Not quite. As explained above, nobody can convict him of anything, because nobody can testify with certainty that he wilfully caused the surrogates to be destroyed. For all the techie knew he just thought a bit too long and was about to hit Y, like every good citizen would, when he was shot by the cop.
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*** Nobody sees him press N, though. From the tech and everyone else's point of view, he just thought about it for a while and was about to hit Y when the cop shot him. For everyone else, his fault is just thinking a bit too long... the real fault is of the cop who shot him. Or at least, that's what I'd tell the world were I in his place, to avoid rotting in jail for the rest of my days. Though the guilt at causing worldwide devastation of untold scale ''might'' be a bit hard to bear.

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*** Nobody sees him press N, though. From the tech and everyone else's point of view, he just thought about it for a while and was about to hit Y when the cop shot him. For everyone else, his His fault is just thinking a bit too long... the real fault is of the cop who shot him. Or at least, that's what I'd tell the world were I in his place, to avoid rotting in jail for the rest of my days. Though the guilt at causing worldwide devastation of untold scale ''might'' be a bit hard to bear.
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*** Nobody sees him press N, though. From the tech and everyone else's point of view, he just thought about it for a while and was about to hit Y when the cop shot him. For everyone else, his fault is just thinking a bit too long... the real fault is of the cop who shot him. Or at least, that's what I'd tell the world were I in his place, to avoid rotting in jail for the rest of my days. Though the guilt at causing worldwide devastation of untold scale ''might'' be a bit hard to bear.
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** As for the whole world being a virtual reality, well, your mind is still in your real body, and that still needs real-life support. Who's gonna do stuff in real life if everyone's busy having fun in virtual?
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** Possibly the film is set in a Verse where epidemics such as [=AIDS=] have actually eliminated much of the Third World's population altogether. That would be another motivation for people to gravitate to surrogates, if so, as avoiding disease is another selling point mentioned in the [=VSI=] ads.
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*** The newscasters' voices at the end make it clear that major cities all over the planet were hit, not just the U.S.
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** The fact that anything a surrogate observes is apparently recorded on their operator's chair, at least for a time, would also argue against such behavior, as the person you irritate today might just upload the tape of your misbehavior to the ''actual'' internet tomorrow, letting the whole world know what a jerkass you are and which surrogate to ostracize.
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*** There were lots of replacement hands and faces on display in the beauty salon, so presumably someone who's into cosplay could swap out some of their surrogate's external coverings when they want to dress up. We don't see people looking like that on the street, because most of the movie takes place in the business district where you wouldn't see furries hanging out with the suits, any more than you'd see Goths there in real life.

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*** ** There were lots of replacement hands and faces on display in the beauty salon, so presumably someone who's into cosplay could swap out some of their surrogate's external coverings when they want to dress up. We don't see people looking like that on the street, because most of the movie takes place in the business district where you wouldn't see many furries hanging out with the suits, any more than you'd see many Goths there in real life.
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*** There were lots of replacement hands and faces on display in the beauty salon, so presumably someone who's into cosplay could swap out some of their surrogate's external coverings when they want to dress up. We don't see people looking like that on the street, because most of the movie takes place in the business district where you wouldn't see furries hanging out with the suits, any more than you'd see Goths there in real life.

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** Except maybe the billions of people who are going to sue their ass for allowing such a massive technical glitch to paralyze their products all over the world.



** If they're independent, that's even worse. Assualt on a foreign police agent is outright agression against the U.S., and it seems the Government would want to take any chance it could to reasimilate the settlement.

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** If they're independent, that's even worse. Assualt Assault on a foreign police agent is outright agression against the U.S., and it seems the Government would want to take any chance it could to reasimilate the settlement.



** Considering that same surrie and his companion just crashed a freakin' helicopter in the middle of a densely-populated area full of for-real organic humans, I'd think the reservation-dwellers' outrage was about a lot more than just the fact there was a surrie walking around where it didn't belong.





















** Estimates of the cost to deploy a single soldier in Iraq or Afghanistan range from $500,000 to over a million dollars per year. Plus, if that soldier gets injured or dies, then the government pays for a lifetime of health care or death benefits for the soldier's family. You can ship and house an entire platoon's worth of expendable surrogates in a shipping crate, they don't eat, don't get sick, don't feel fear, don't suffer PTSD and if one goes down there's always a replacement. Sounds cost-effective to me.

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** Estimates of the cost to deploy a single soldier in Iraq or Afghanistan range from $500,000 to over a million dollars per year. Plus, if that soldier gets injured or dies, then the government pays for a lifetime of health care or death benefits for the soldier's family. You can ship and house an entire platoon's worth of expendable surrogates in a shipping crate, they don't eat, don't get sick, don't feel fear, don't suffer PTSD PTSD, they're totally immune to biological/chemical/radiological attacks, and if one goes down there's always a replacement. Sounds cost-effective to me.me.
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*** Not to mention the military surrogates aren't exactly the most detailed in the face. It looks very cheap and plastic-y compared to a civilian one.
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** It's moral degeneration. People stop being responsible for many of their actions and forfeit "natural" living in favor of a simulated exisence. Essentially, it's pushing a premature [[TheSingularity singularity]] of an [[TheWorldIsNotReady immature world]].

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** It's moral degeneration. degeneration caused by being over-dependent on technology. People stop being responsible for many of their actions and forfeit "natural" living in favor of a simulated exisence.mediated, safer existence. Essentially, it's pushing a premature [[TheSingularity singularity]] of an [[TheWorldIsNotReady immature world]]. It's even showed to have a malign effect on people's health, since they spend so much time uplinked that their bodies are left unkempt and unhealthy.
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** It's moral degeneration. People stop being responsible for many of their actions and forfeit "natural" living in favor of a simulated exisence. Essentially, it's pushing a premature {{Singularity}} of an [[TheWorldIsNotReady immature world]].

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** It's moral degeneration. People stop being responsible for many of their actions and forfeit "natural" living in favor of a simulated exisence. Essentially, it's pushing a premature {{Singularity}} [[TheSingularity singularity]] of an [[TheWorldIsNotReady immature world]].
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** It's moral degeneration. People stop being responsible for many of their actions and forfeit "natural" living in favor of a simulated exisence. Essentially, it's pushing a premature {{Singularity}} of an [[TheWorldIsNotReady immature world]].
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* So, what crime would Greer be convicted of? Vandalism? Sabotage? Gross criminal negligence?

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* So, what crime would Greer be convicted of? Vandalism? Sabotage? Gross criminal negligence?negligence?
** All of the above.
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*** A huge portion of the worlds population is in Europe, China, India, and the US where they conceivably could get that far reaching, cell phones have gotten to the point of ubiquitousness in Europe and the US in nearly the same amount of time.
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** Estimates of the cost to deploy a single soldier in Iraq or Afghanistan range from $500,000 to over a million dollars per year. Plus, if that soldier gets injured or dies, then the government pays for a lifetime of health care or death benefits for the soldier's family. You can ship and house an entire platoon's worth of expendable surrogates in a shipping crate, they don't eat, don't get sick, don't feel fear, don't suffer PTSD and if one goes down there's always a replacement. Sounds cost-effective to me.
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** Only the very rich are shown to have more than one surrogate, so if you had a truly alien surrogate it would be counterproductive. Keep in mind this is the body you'd be walking around with all the time, 24/7. School, work, the club, everywhere. They're not just for recreation. The reason there aren't any freaky surrogates is pretty much the same reason you don't see people running around in costumes in real life.
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* This really bothers me. The surrogates cause minor body issues in a small percentage of users, and save tens of thousands of lives every day. How is their destruction a good thing?
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**** This is a stupid movie invention. The original comic did not have this weapon. The attacker simply used a device that fries the surrie without harming the operator. Nobody actually wanted to kill 98% of the population (well, less, since the other half of the world would be sleeping), just shut down all the surries. Of course, it makes for less drama, so murder was added for the film.
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*** Who did they assault? They destroyed a machine. That is all. A machine that violated their sovereignty. Besides, the original comic mentions there are hundreds of these reservations throughout the world. You don't wanna piss off all of them over a destroyed surrie that can be replaced.
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*** That's pretty much the idea in the film. Also, if a Surrogate cost "a good deal more than" $40,000 a pop, then there's no flipping way that 90% of the population would have one, or that you'd be able to rent a replacement at any time at a corner store--as the previous poster mentioned, they're treated as disposable. They would ''have'' to be much, much, ''much'' cheaper than that for the premise of the movie to work at all.
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** While infantry might be cheaper to train than a surrogate, they're...disposable. You're thinking of surrogates as infantry themselves, instead of a force multiplier. If the surrogate gets shut down, just log into a new one. Again and again, until you take that hill. Admittedly, I haven't seen the movie.
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**** Ironically, it's actually cheaper to cook your own food than to eat out all the time. I can buy a kilo of rice, some ham, and a 2-liter of soda for the cost of ''one'' Big Mac Combo.
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** For me, the premise suffers from what you're alluding with why people in this world choose surrogates.

I think it would have been more palpable if the back story included a prehistory of how humankind had derailed its own progress with genetic enhancements that backfired in subsequent generations that lead up to the one that relies on surrogates. The story could then be explained as taking place 300 years from now, but the reason the Surrogate World being featured looks like the early 21st Century is because it was at this time that humans had their "last hurrah" as regular people with everyday problems before the onslaught of revolutionary genetic engineering.

The writers could still use the same plot devices and hero figure with Bruce Willis, but this time his chance to recapture his humanity isn't so clear cut and cozy. He, as well as all other "puppet" humans would have to re-enter the real world as unplugged regular human beings much in the same vein as Robert Duvall's character at the end of THX-1138.
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** It could be argued that making something like that would be so niche that VSI wouldn't bother making them. The top of the line surrogates in the movie barely make it out of the UncannyValley, can you imagine how much it would cost to make a realistic [[PurpleIsTheNewBlack purple]] [[SpecialSnowflakeSyndrome fox-ocelot hybrid]]? But that doesn't explain how [[UnfortunateImplications few minority surrogates there were]].
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These pages ain\'t for simple complaints, but for fridge logic and plot holes.


* You know, when I think about it, the movie is actually promoting older views being imposed on everyone. Concerting that I'm a gamer atheist socialist that bugs me x3 due to the fact that all 3 are groups a large part of some older generations want dead.
** That's not a plot hole. Or fridge logic.
*** Maybe it's something [[JustBugsMe that just bothers]] him or her.
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** Furthermore, why even fight a war on the ground if you have that level of robotics technology? We already have Predator drones. Surely those would become even more advanced TwentyMinutesIntoTheFuture, so why even bother with infantry by that time?
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* Others have touched on it but I'm going to state it outright. Its the all or nothing nature of Surrogate use. Not just the timeframe, which is unrealistic enough, but there are basically only three viewpoints portrayed in the movie. Surrogate for everything but eating and using the bathroom, {{Ludd Was Right}} and the computer tech who is viewed as an eccentric weirdo who avoids being a pariah because he possess valuable skills. There's no one who uses a Surrogate most of the time but occasionally likes to get out and engage in their hobby sans Surrogate, or alternately someone who spends most of their time ''au naturale'' but uses a Surrogate for things like extreme sports for safety/practicality reasons. Or to boil it down there are no shades of grey.

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* Others have touched on it but I'm going to state it outright. Its It's the all or nothing nature of Surrogate use. Not just the timeframe, which is unrealistic enough, but there are basically only three viewpoints portrayed in the movie. Surrogate for everything but eating and using the bathroom, {{Ludd Was Right}} and the computer tech who is viewed as an eccentric weirdo who avoids being a pariah because he possess valuable skills. There's no one who uses a Surrogate most of the time but occasionally likes to get out and engage in their hobby sans Surrogate, or alternately someone who spends most of their time ''au naturale'' but uses a Surrogate for things like extreme sports for safety/practicality reasons. Or to boil it down there are no shades of grey.
* Why would the military choose to have an endless RedShirtArmy of Surrogates? Today, from what I gather, it costs something like $40,000 to train and outfit one infantry soldier. How much do Surrogates cost? A good deal more than that, I'm guessing. And you would ''still'' need to train the human soldiers, because Surrogates don't use weaponry and practice proper tactics on their own. The whole thing just doesn't seem remotely cost effective, although it would save lives--which is the emphasis of the entire purpose of Surrogates in the film.

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