History Headscratchers / Runaways

* This isn't as much of a qualm with the plot as it is something this troper has had trouble with while reading the series. Is it determined whether Karolina's name is pronounced as "Ka-ro-LEE-na" or "Ka-ro-LIE-na?" My gut tells me it's the latter, seeing that her parents took the surname of [[spoiler: American actor JamesDean when they came to Earth,]] which probably means they wanted her name to sound more "American." But at one point, Molly calls her "Lina bean." It could be read as "LEE-na bean," as it would be a rhyming pun, but it could also be read as "LIE-na bean," for its closeness to "Lima bean." Wow, my [[YourHeadAsplode brain really hurts...]]

Plus, if you've read Vaughn's other works you'll notice the man has an obsession with having Glasses wearing people die. ''YTheLastMan'' has that bespectacled Amazon leader get killed, ''ComicBook/ExMachina'' has a kid with glasses shoot himself, that one ''ComicBook/TomStrong'' story he did, has a bespectacled villainess jump out a window and die.

<<|JustBugsMe|>>

Plus, if you've read Vaughn's other works you'll notice the man has an obsession with having Glasses wearing people die. ''YTheLastMan'' has that bespectacled Amazon leader get killed, ''ComicBook/ExMachina'' has a kid with glasses shoot himself, that one ''TomStrong'' story he did, has a bespectacled villainess jump out a window and die.

* Mutant powers are unique, with no two mutants being entirely the same, right? How the ever-loving fuck do Molly's parents have powers that are identical down to the letter, including the same glowy eye effect? It's also noteworthy that they look ''exactly'' alike with the same colour hair, eyes and skin tone. How?

Plus, if you've read Vaughn's other works you'll notice the man has an obsession with having Glasses wearing people die. ''YTheLastMan'' has that bespectacled Amazon leader get killed, ''ExMachina'' has a kid with glasses shoot himself, that one ''TomStrong'' story he did, has a bespectacled villainess jump out a window and die.

** I assumed that this was to illustrate that YouCantFightFate doesn't apply here. That said her dead Avengers were the MC2 team which itself has been declared an alternate universe particularly after OneMoreDay.

*** It was extreme, actually, Chase later tells Nico that his father beat him with a phonebook (because it hurts but leaves no marks) until he was barely conscious.
** CharacterizationMarchesOn?

*** But they never give their parents any sort of chance to explain themselves even when they are just talking with them over the phone and in no immediate danger. It just seems to me that most of the conflict of the story could be resolved with a honest conversation between the parents and the kids. It's based on a stupid misunderstanding, too, since the person they killed was an illusion anyway.
**** First of all, what on Earth gave you the idea that that girl was an illusion? I don't remember that ever being hinted at, let alone proven. Her murder was very real. Second, the first time one of the kids talks to their parents over the phone after they run away, Gert's mom tells her that the Pride will ''execute Molly'' if they don't come home. Also, one of the kids has additional reasons for acting the way (s)he does--you'll find out all about it at the end of the first volume.
***** The illusion thing probably came from a line Alex's dad says when he goes to explain what they saw. He says something like "I just want to show him that what he saw was just an illusion". But the girl really is dead, yeah. It's made pretty clear in the series that someone does have to actually die. As for why they panicked, they just saw their parents coldly murder a girl their own age and are quite aware that they know too much. In fact, they're actually GenreSavvy enough to try to avoid HaveYouToldAnyoneElse ([[spoiler:except for Alex, who clued the police in on purpose]]). It probably didn't help that Gert's mother claims that they're willing to kill Molly, Molly's dad threatens to mind control Alex and Nico into snapping each other's necks, and Karolina's mother calls Gert "expendable" before threatening to crush her.
** Having Alex immediately jump to conclusions probably also helped.
** Wait for explanations? Yes, I'm sure that would have fixed it all. "''You get it all wrong kids. We did not simply kill a girl. We are part of a secret plot that will destroy all humanity, sparing only you. Don't you understand? We did it all because we love you''". And surely Gert would reply, taking to the others: "''On the count of three. One, two, [[AttackAttackAttack attack page]]

*** Actually, considering that he was made to infiltrate ComicBook/TheAvengers, the Terminator analogy is pretty apt.
*** Okay, that sort of makes sense. But then why on Earth did it take Victor so long to figure out that he wasn't a normal teenager? Are we supposed to believe that he never once cut himself in the years before the runaways found him?
**** It's stated that he is only about two years old all of his memories beyond that are fake ones created by Ultron and his Mother did seem rather over protective.
***** So his mother was able to keep him from cutting himself, going near anything metal (paper clips stick to his face), or realizing that nobody besides the two of them remembered him as a child for two years? Still really implausible.
****** I got the impression the paper clip thing only works now because his magnetic powers have been activated they wouldn't have stuck before. No one remembers him earlier than that because he believes he moved there two years ago. Though his mother stopping him from cutting himself for two whole years is a bit of a stretch I'll give you that.
** This Troper seems to recall Ultron implying that as Victor got older, his machinery would slowly be converted to human cells so that the Avengers (who he was eventually supposed to join) wouldn't realize he was a robot/human hybrid. Presumably this has yet to have happened yet since Victor is still a teenager.

* At the end of "Live Fast" worn out from their fight with the Gibborium (Molly was asleep, Victor not at full power after BSOD-ing, Karolina out of charge and Xavin not in full control over his powers) they got confronted by IronMan and SHEILD agents for not registering with the SHRA. When the book picks up again they are in New York talking to the Kingpin. How did they get past Iron Man?

** I've only read the first two volumes, but I know the runaways appeared in ''Civil War''. Maybe you have to read that to fill in the gap?
*** No that Tie-in takes place in the middle of Live Fast
*** Really? It seems to take place after they escaped from Iron Man, given that they're in the middle of the warzone. There's no explanation how they escaped if they did though, and no segue to the next arc. They stopped using the LaBrea base after the former arc in any case.
*** Either that or the writer of it can't write Chase to save their life. Chase had come to accept Gert's death by that point here he gets all pissed off because Molly off handidly mentions here.
*** Well actually the Civil War crossover with the Young Avengers takes place before Live Fast
** This troper recalls reading somewhere that they used the Leapfrog to get to New York, crushing several "Welcome to" signs along the way. Can't seem to find where that info came from though, so take it with a grain of salt.
*** That was in a special recap issue that wasn't collected into the third hardback :( . They don't show how they escaped, and the whole issue is them reading Molly's diary.

** WordOfGod said Ka-ro-Lee-na.
*** Awesome, thanks!
*** WordOfGod said on his website her name is "Like the state", which would be Karo-LIE-na, as in North and South. Also makes the "Lina Bean" joke actually make sense.

*** There's also fridge horror for what they did if they had had a twin or a second child.

** Probably because the Runaways think it's a punishment they richly deserve. Let's not forget that those two nearly killed ''thousands'' with one of their bombs in that very issue and were willing to wipe out all of humanity. I didn't feel sorry for them in the least, and I'm probably not alone.
*** No, you're not.
*** So am I the only one who was horrified?
**** This troper privately suspects that the incident will be used as a loophole to bring back Gert. So yeah...
* Aside from a punishment the Yorks would arguable deserve it was a necessity. The Yorks had to go back into the future to fulfill their roles. The two were already plotting how to change time to save their daughter. Allowing them to take other actions would have seriously screwed up the timeline including the Runaways' past.

*** Actaully, there are a few mutants in the Marvel Universe that have been born with their powers, or at least looking different (IE. Nightcrawler, unless that of course has been retcon'd recently). It might be the fact that Marvel had to put something down in their handbook, or that it may be she is a mutant because of some God's tampering (Agruably, Pheonix's non-psycic powers). Either way, this troper believes that whichever author tackles this problem, has plenty of ways to explain their way out of it.
*** Probably, the X-Men detected Klara, all right, and when they detected that she was with the Runaways, they lost the interest. I'm sure that Wolverine still remembers when he gave a tour of the mansion to Molly, and he must not be very interested in repeating the experience.
*** Adding on to that before Beast was born with his hands and feet larger than normal (People tend to forget his blue furball form was due to his own scientific meddling and not his mutation)

*** No, those are all valid points, except for the part about having his own hideout; the first Hostel would have been useless if any of the Pride had known about it.

* In the "True Believers" arc, why would the team be so willing to beat the crap out of Victor? In the third storyarc, they chastied Cloak and Dagger for having a typical "superheroess meet and fight then sort out differences", just seems hypocritical of them to do this.
** Beacuse Future Gert had just come back in time, with fatal injuries claiming that in about 20 years he will single-handedly kill every superhero on Earth including the Avengers, the X-men, the Fantastic Four (or Fourteen), and probably them as well. The kids certainly aren't going to chalk that up to a simple misunderstanding like with Cloak and Dagger.
** It also adds that Chase loves Gert, and having Gert die in his hands (even if it's a future Gert), telling him who had just killed her... is the sort of thing that makes a guy go on a rampage of vengueance.
** I say its because its a comic book, and they need something to beat up in every issue.

** Related to the above, this may just be "I didn't read enough Marvel comics", but why're they all focusing on densely populated urban areas? Wouldn't it be a little easier to set up a hideout in FlyOverCountry (''especially'' in the Rockies or Ozarks) where there are apparently no superheroes ''at all''?
*** In one issue of Quasar (about #17 or #18 off the top of this troper's head), it's said that there's a cosmic being around the Midwest called the Unbeing which "uncreates" superheroes. It's not too much of a stretch to say that the Unbeing would "uncreate" villains as well, then. (Take this with a grain of salt- the Unbeing story also featured Origin, who apparently creates ''every'' superhero in the Marvel Universe, and it's up in the air a bit as to whether it's canon or not)
** Same guy as above. Why didn't any villains every just tell, the Avengers or Fantastic Four about the Pride. If they were so worried that they couldn't beat them the could just let one of those "rightous do-gooders" handle it.
*** A Gibborim did it? I always imagined that the Minorus or Hayes were probably brainwashing or memory-erasing away the media or other such people who'd rat 'em out.
*** Honestly, there are 6 pairs of parents, each with access to a different power, not all of them are the type to go out and fight, and they all plan to work to the same goal. Unless a villian took time, effort and resources to just try and open up access to LA, and make sure that they were able to profit off of all that, it wouldn't be worth it. Especially if a few of The Pride or their children were able to survive and hold a grudge. If Alex or his parents had lived, which I am sure they would probably would have as they are the most back seat villian compared to the rest, who ever orchestrated the attack on their plans would suffer for a long time. Too many variables, and not enough reward. Doctor Doom may have access to time travel, powerful magical artifacts, hi-tech superweapons, but so did The Pride, and at least 2 people who could control each
*** Yeah, but Doom's technology and magic takes a big smelly dump on everyone else in Marvel who isn't named Reed Richards and Dr Strange (respectively). The real reason no one bothers will L.A. is because why would anyone care about it anyway? Doom has his own country, why would he bother attacking some rinkydink city that doesn't even contain '''''[=RICHARDS=]!!!!!'''''. And Green Goblin gets his jollies screwing with Spidey. What could Los Angeles possibly have to offer people like Doom that New York doesn't?

* In "True Believers", the Runaways debate killing Victor Mancha because in some far-off future, he becomes a [[TheMole mole]] in the Avengers and kills every superhero in the universe. Except there's some major FridgeLogic at work:
** Victor was created by Ultron and nearly every one of his creations has [[TurnedAgainstTheirMasters rebelled against their Ultron programming]], including Victor himself. So how in the future does Ultron-1 (built in the 1970's) outdo his decades of Ultron-XXX upgrades in creating an AI that actually works?
*** First of all Sliding Timescale, Ultron-1 was built no earlier than 1990, probably later. Second the story referenced when he was defeated by the West Coast Avengers was well after he had upgraded himself about as far as he is in modern times.

*** I thought the LogicBomb questions were meant as backdoors for Ultron to disable him if he got out of hand, the feedback errors make no sense Ultron's previous creations were able to be near each other just fine, the Hackers were supposed to be using Stein's tech so they weren't normal hackers.
** In East Coast/West Coast, Nico [[LetsYouAndHimFight attacks]] Spider-Man while he's just sitting there and isn't a threat to the team. Victor is the only one to object but Nico justifies it by saying they don't trust adults. For a team trying not to be like their evil parents, why are they acting so much like villains while the only team member confirmed to actually become one acts like a hero.
*** Keep in mind the Runaways are truant fugitives and their previous dealings with adult heroes got them sent to their various foster places which they all agreed they don't want to go back to.
** I want to know what they plan to do about getting older. if they don't trust adults, how will they react to becoming adults?
*** Poorly, no doubt. Then again, they'd have years to ease into the idea, so they might get over it.
*** Going off of Homecoming,it seems that they seem to become jerks and die(?) after 18.which I guess is one way to handle that problem. as for why only Victor reacts poorly to attacking spiderman,lets remember he was designed as a major fan boy and hasn't yet expierienced the less favorable adult supers that the rest have.

* I can't believe no one else has brought this up, or am I the only one bugged by Nico? She starts out okay, but once she becomes de facto leader of the group, she makes a lot of bad choices no one calls her on. I'll be lenient and chalk up all of her previous bad choices in Vol. 1 to inexperience and the trauma of her parents being evil, but let's look at a piece of her track record: kisses her best friend's boyfriend, covers it up, sleeps with the other guy on the team after the death of her best friend and tries to cover that up, casually decides to date him, then encourages him to cheat on her with a girl from 100 years in the past. Actually, the biggest thing that bugs me about this is her decisions when handling Victor, kidnapping him and sets it up (unintentionally, but still with unforgivably poor planning) in a way that ends with Vic's mother DEAD, despite that Victor wasn't going to turn evil for 20 YEARS. Does anyone ever bring up how lousy a job she's doing? No. Vic apparently forgets his mother was just murdered before his eyes and develops a crush on Nico (later either spending the night or sleeping with her), Gert turns around and forgives Nico for molesting Chase and lying to her, and Chase goes so far as to trust her with his final wishes when he goes off to sacrifice himself to the Gibborim. Heck, even the Gibborim think she's innocent, even though the only thing she's been innocent of is directly killing someone with her own hands.
** Another thing that bugs me: zombie KNOT!? How did she lose all those badass powers she had only a few issues ago? Did she get smacked on the head and lost all memory about how to use the Staff of One?
*** They actually do discuss this. Earlier when Nico had performed the spell 'Scatter' it not only affected their enemies, but also affected the kids' abilities to operate as an effective team. Once the whole "zombie knot" occurs, they figure that her powers have been acting strangely ever since she was tortured by the Witchbreaker.
*** It was more her powers were growing in bursts she couldn't control

** That's not my point. My point is, she has almost never faced consequences for her poor choices, and any punishment she goes through is temporary at best.
*** They ''all'' thought that kidnapping Victor was a good idea, and Victor himself came up with the plan to rescue his mother. Kissing Chase was definitely not cool, I'll give you that, but it was done in the heat of the moment and she regretted it immediately. I thought that [[AndIMustScream what she did to the Yorkes]] during Whedon's run was absolutely evil, but I seem to be the only person, both in-universe and in the fandom, who had a problem with it (see above). Besides, who else would call the shots? Molly and Klara are too young, Chase is too dumb, Victor is the new guy who's supposedly destined to become evil, Xavin is the even newer guy/girl who half the team can't stand, and Karolina...well, she just doesn't strike me as leadership material. Gert would probably make a great leader, but she doesn't want the job. That only leaves Nico.
*** The sleeping with Victor thing was her grief causing her to look for comfort in the closest available male. And her throwing him at Lillie was her actively trying to make up for her romantic mistakes by helping him hook up with the girl of his dreams.

** Incest?

** Were they actually soldiers? I think that someone said that, and they replied that they were no soldiers, merely survivors.
*** The dude the Runaways captured is a student, his sister is a soldier, and I don't know about the rest of the group, but I assume they're also soldiers from the way they interact and also how they have weapons and ships and stuff. Besides, it's not like you have to be a soldier to know that when dealing with shapeshifters, it's best that everyone is accounted for. Or that a high ranking member of the species that was directly responsible for the destruction of your planet following 15-16 years of conflict is a much better prize to raise troop morale than a scared, innocent teenager of your own species.

** Perhaps he made a character with an impossible name to avoid giving problems to the people who may have that name. Ask any guy named "Peter Parker" if life is easy for him
** But Parker is a pretty common surname in real life
** Precisely
** But Minoru isn't a surname in real life so how is Parker being a real life surname....you confused me
*** Because with names like Parker & Kent being very common names in real life, there are more than likely people with those surnames who also have fairly common first names like Peter or Clark. People who would have put up with people constantly bringing up how they share the same name as a superhero & teasing them over it. This does actually happen in reality, such as the true story of the resident of a town called Springfield named Homer Simpson, which led to the episode where Homer shares his name with a fictional character & changes it because of the taunts.
*** But like I said, Minoru doesn't seem to be a surname in real life, just a male first name.

*** Okay, I'm liking that expaination.

***** Killing Karolina wouldn't have been as sad since she was gone for so long, plus then Xavin would've had absolutely no reason to stay on the team.

-Killing Nico would've made it look like only non-whites die. Plus, stupid ass leadercide.
-Killing Chase would've left us with a "harem plus one guy" again.
-Killing Karolina wouldn't have been as sad since she was gone for so long, plus then Xavin would've had absolutely no reason to stay on the team.
-Killing Molly...Aw, come on, who'd want that!?
-Killing Victor wouldn't have been assad because he wasn't around as long, plus racist implications once again.
-Killing Xavin would've been the least sad, expecially since he looked like a douche in his earlier appearance.

Plus, if you've read Vaughn's otherworks you'll notice the man has an obsession with having Glasses wearing people die. Y: the Last Man has that bespecaled Amazon leader get killed, Ex Machina has a kid with glasses shoot himself, that one Tom Strong story he did, has a bespecaled villainess jump out a window and die.
* Am I the only one who has noticed Xavin spends most of the Crossovers in Male form even though she usually stays in female form in her own series?

* Isn't Xavin's plot to spare Karolina doomed to failure as soon as her Majesdanian kidnappers expect her to be able to use the normal Majesdanian powers? S/he has all the normal Skrull powers + the Fantastic Fours', but I don't think that means s/he's able to mimic Karolina's. Maybe s/he's hoping to be held under the same sort of power limiter as Karolina's med-alert bracelet?
** She did not intend to stay as Karolina forever. Once in the Majesdane home world, he would reveal himself as a skrull, and try to amend the actions of the skrulls that destroyed that planet.
* If the Abstract is supposed to have the future written in it, and the Pride had several years to study it... shouldn't they had known that, in that specific Rite of Blood, their sons would see them, escape and ruin the whole master plan? There are so many things they could have done, such a fake Rite of Blood that they could see and got their original idea that they were super heroes; or simply gave them a free trip to disneyworld instead of staying bored at home during their reunion.

* Is it just me or are the Majedane soldiers who come to arrest Karolina just completely incompetent? I mean, 1) Xavin once mentioned that Karolina could recognize her scent no matter what form he took, which I assume to be a trait of Karolina's race. If it's not, then this point is moot, but if Majedanes have enhanced senses, or at least a better sense of smell than humans, then why couldn't they recognize that the Karolina they took wasn't the real one? 2) They know that Xavin is Karolina's skrull lover. They know this, and yet it doesn't occur to them that she might try to take Karolina's place? They've dealt with skrulls for a 15-16 year war! They should know not to trust that anyone is who they say they are! 3) Why didn't they go after Xavin once they realized who he was? She's a skrull (ex)prince! He was in charge when the missile was fired and Majesdane was destroyed! She might be only indirectly responsible for the destruction of Majesdane, but he makes a far better scapegoat than Karolina does! They could have taken her or even both of them! Why limit themselves to someone who wasn't by any stretch of imagination responsible for anything when they had a skrull there to blame it all on? There's more, surely, but I've lost my train of thought. What do you think?

* Here's something I've always wondered: Why is Nico's last name Minoru? In all my studies, I've found that in real life, Minoru is just a male first name, never a surname, so what the heck? I know Brian K. Vaughn to be aguy who does his research, so was he trying to be ironic somehow? What do you think?

** I always assumed the "one" part was refering to the weilder, like how people can refer to themselvses as "oneself" making it more "the staff of me/you" than the "staff of almighty power of the universe" or it could just be a case of YeOldeButcheredEnglish. And well yes the Witchbreaker obviously had her own one in "Dead End Kids"