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** This also stops death spells from bypassing Regeneration, which is a common and divisive rules argument in the ''TabletopGame/DungeonsAndDragons'' version that Pathfinder is based off of.

to:

** This also stops death spells from bypassing Regeneration, which is a common and divisive rules argument in the ''TabletopGame/DungeonsAndDragons'' version that Pathfinder is based off of.of.
** To at least *try* to balance them against conventional direct damage and non-magical attacks. Given that hard crowd control spells still exist this didn't exactly stop caster supremacy.

Added DiffLines:

'''As a Headscratchers subpage, all spoilers are unmarked [[Administrivia/SpoilersOff as per policy.]] Administrivia/YouHaveBeenWarned.'''
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[[folder: Tabletop]]
Why do most death spells do 10xcaster level damage on a failed save rather than just kill? They're ''Death'' spells, not "a lot of damage" spells.

to:

[[folder: Tabletop]]
Why do most death spells do 10xcaster 10 x caster level damage on a failed save rather than just kill? They're ''Death'' spells, not "a lot of damage" spells.



** This also stops death spells from bypassing Regeneration, which is a common and divisive rules argument in the ''TabletopGame/DungeonsAndDragons'' version that Pathfinder is based off of.
[[/folder]]
[[folder: Pathfinder: Kingmaker]]
Alignment options or restrictions in conversation can lead to a lot of these due to a lack of consistency and the sometimes arbitrary nature of what alignment matches what decision.

* Mediating between the mites and the kobolds in Chapter One requires a Neutral alignment for some reason, even though there's [[https://steamcommunity.com/app/640820/discussions/4/3393916911748414280/?ctp=2#c1730963192537001605 a strong argument to be made]] that finding a peaceful solution should be a Good option (especially since it's obvious from the start that ChaoticEvil Tartuccio is manipulating them into war). Both races default to LawfulEvil in the lore, so if you're playing a "corner" alignment (e.g. [[AlwaysLawfulGood paladins]]) you're left with making a choice based on little more than personal preference for one species or the other, or KillEmAll.
* When dealing with [[spoiler: Sartayne, Nazrielle's apprentice]] you have to decide what to do with a criminal who knowingly created and sold cursed items to the people of your Barony in a revenge-driven plot to ruin the reputation of a weaponsmith and merchant who put his father out of business. While said merchant is a cutthroat businessman, blatant sadist, colossal JerkAss, and ''strongly'' implied to be LawfulEvil, there's no evidence they've ever actually done anything wrong (or illegal at least) and they're never anything other than honest and fair with you. Compare this to the clearly ChaoticEvil criminal, who not only admitted to several dangerous crimes against people who had nothing to do with his target (one of which you had to clean up and may have resulted in an innocent man's death) but ''bragged'' about them to your face. Of the four options you're given, nearly all of them are given the wrong alignment by the game's own standards:
** The first option is to let this ObviouslyEvil vengeance-seeker go because it's none of your business. This is classed as Chaotic Neutral and is the only one that's more or less consistent with other dialogue options.
** The second option is to arrest him for his crimes. This is, for some reason, counted as Lawful Evil but is more in line with Lawful Neutral options from earlier quests. With only a minor change in wording this could even be a LawfulGood option.
** The third option is to break your agreement with the merchant and hire the criminal instead. This is counted as Neutral Evil but is more Chaotic Evil, as you're breaking a legal agreement (Chaotic) to hire a known criminal (Evil).
** The final option is to execute him. This is counted as Chaotic Evil, but keeping in mind that he is a dangerous criminal who just admitted to his crimes and showed no remorse at all executing him is more in line with '''Lawful Good''' choices from earlier in the game, which encourage you to kill bandits and other criminals without discussion ([[LawfulStupid which is itself wrong]]: LawfulGood is a focus on ''justice'', not merely ''law'').
* Why isn't it possible to talk Kesten out of a suicidal charge in Chapter 3 without being Lawfully-aligned? Not only does Kesten realize he's being stupid after literally one sentence if you ''are'' Lawful, but Neutral and Chaotic characters should have absolutely no compunction taking advantage of another character's Lawful tendencies for their own ends.
* During the quest to get the two-handed masterwork weapon the artisan asks you to kill the person who murdered their family. This 'murderer' is not hostile to you and if you approach them does not attack, but instead greets you in a friendly way, but a wary one. If you attack them immediately there's no alignment impact, but if you engage them in conversation then attacking them becomes a Chaotic Evil act because now you know who they are. The headscratcher is why it's any ''less'' Chaotic Evil to kill a random non-hostile stranger on the dubious word of one guy for your own personal gain than it is to kill them once you know who they are.
* When you first approach Bartholomew Delgado you find he has a troll slave imprisoned in a cage that he's been using as a lab rat for his experiments. Making him free this slave is considered Chaotic Good since the troll was legally bought. But if you've already met Octavia and Regongar in the previous act, you'd know that ''slavery is illegal'' in the Stolen Lands, meaning freeing the troll should be a Lawful Good action. Even more oddly, if Octavia is with you she never brings this up in her objection despite her being the one to tell you about slavery's illegality.
** This one can be explained (though how well depends on your personal sensibilities); slavery of persons is highly illegal. But... trolls aren't considered ''people'' by any leadership crews. Therefore, Bartholomew Delgado's slavery of the troll is perfectly legal.
[[/folder]]

to:

** This also stops death spells from bypassing Regeneration, which is a common and divisive rules argument in the ''TabletopGame/DungeonsAndDragons'' version that Pathfinder is based off of.
[[/folder]]
[[folder: Pathfinder: Kingmaker]]
Alignment options or restrictions in conversation can lead to a lot of these due to a lack of consistency and the sometimes arbitrary nature of what alignment matches what decision.

* Mediating between the mites and the kobolds in Chapter One requires a Neutral alignment for some reason, even though there's [[https://steamcommunity.com/app/640820/discussions/4/3393916911748414280/?ctp=2#c1730963192537001605 a strong argument to be made]] that finding a peaceful solution should be a Good option (especially since it's obvious from the start that ChaoticEvil Tartuccio is manipulating them into war). Both races default to LawfulEvil in the lore, so if you're playing a "corner" alignment (e.g. [[AlwaysLawfulGood paladins]]) you're left with making a choice based on little more than personal preference for one species or the other, or KillEmAll.
* When dealing with [[spoiler: Sartayne, Nazrielle's apprentice]] you have to decide what to do with a criminal who knowingly created and sold cursed items to the people of your Barony in a revenge-driven plot to ruin the reputation of a weaponsmith and merchant who put his father out of business. While said merchant is a cutthroat businessman, blatant sadist, colossal JerkAss, and ''strongly'' implied to be LawfulEvil, there's no evidence they've ever actually done anything wrong (or illegal at least) and they're never anything other than honest and fair with you. Compare this to the clearly ChaoticEvil criminal, who not only admitted to several dangerous crimes against people who had nothing to do with his target (one of which you had to clean up and may have resulted in an innocent man's death) but ''bragged'' about them to your face. Of the four options you're given, nearly all of them are given the wrong alignment by the game's own standards:
** The first option is to let this ObviouslyEvil vengeance-seeker go because it's none of your business. This is classed as Chaotic Neutral and is the only one that's more or less consistent with other dialogue options.
** The second option is to arrest him for his crimes. This is, for some reason, counted as Lawful Evil but is more in line with Lawful Neutral options from earlier quests. With only a minor change in wording this could even be a LawfulGood option.
** The third option is to break your agreement with the merchant and hire the criminal instead. This is counted as Neutral Evil but is more Chaotic Evil, as you're breaking a legal agreement (Chaotic) to hire a known criminal (Evil).
** The final option is to execute him. This is counted as Chaotic Evil, but keeping in mind that he is a dangerous criminal who just admitted to his crimes and showed no remorse at all executing him is more in line with '''Lawful Good''' choices from earlier in the game, which encourage you to kill bandits and other criminals without discussion ([[LawfulStupid which is itself wrong]]: LawfulGood is a focus on ''justice'', not merely ''law'').
* Why isn't it possible to talk Kesten out of a suicidal charge in Chapter 3 without being Lawfully-aligned? Not only does Kesten realize he's being stupid after literally one sentence if you ''are'' Lawful, but Neutral and Chaotic characters should have absolutely no compunction taking advantage of another character's Lawful tendencies for their own ends.
* During the quest to get the two-handed masterwork weapon the artisan asks you to kill the person who murdered their family. This 'murderer' is not hostile to you and if you approach them does not attack, but instead greets you in a friendly way, but a wary one. If you attack them immediately there's no alignment impact, but if you engage them in conversation then attacking them becomes a Chaotic Evil act because now you know who they are. The headscratcher is why it's any ''less'' Chaotic Evil to kill a random non-hostile stranger on the dubious word of one guy for your own personal gain than it is to kill them once you know who they are.
* When you first approach Bartholomew Delgado you find he has a troll slave imprisoned in a cage that he's been using as a lab rat for his experiments. Making him free this slave is considered Chaotic Good since the troll was legally bought. But if you've already met Octavia and Regongar in the previous act, you'd know that ''slavery is illegal'' in the Stolen Lands, meaning freeing the troll should be a Lawful Good action. Even more oddly, if Octavia is with you she never brings this up in her objection despite her being the one to tell you about slavery's illegality.
** This one can be explained (though how well depends on your personal sensibilities); slavery of persons is highly illegal. But... trolls aren't considered ''people'' by any leadership crews. Therefore, Bartholomew Delgado's slavery of the troll is perfectly legal.
[[/folder]]
of.


[[folder: Tabletop]]



** This also stops death spells from bypassing Regeneration, which is a common and divisive rules argument in the ''TabletopGame/DungeonsAndDragons'' version that Pathfinder is based off of.

to:

** This also stops death spells from bypassing Regeneration, which is a common and divisive rules argument in the ''TabletopGame/DungeonsAndDragons'' version that Pathfinder is based off of.of.
[[/folder]]
[[folder: Pathfinder: Kingmaker]]
Alignment options or restrictions in conversation can lead to a lot of these due to a lack of consistency and the sometimes arbitrary nature of what alignment matches what decision.

* Mediating between the mites and the kobolds in Chapter One requires a Neutral alignment for some reason, even though there's [[https://steamcommunity.com/app/640820/discussions/4/3393916911748414280/?ctp=2#c1730963192537001605 a strong argument to be made]] that finding a peaceful solution should be a Good option (especially since it's obvious from the start that ChaoticEvil Tartuccio is manipulating them into war). Both races default to LawfulEvil in the lore, so if you're playing a "corner" alignment (e.g. [[AlwaysLawfulGood paladins]]) you're left with making a choice based on little more than personal preference for one species or the other, or KillEmAll.
* When dealing with [[spoiler: Sartayne, Nazrielle's apprentice]] you have to decide what to do with a criminal who knowingly created and sold cursed items to the people of your Barony in a revenge-driven plot to ruin the reputation of a weaponsmith and merchant who put his father out of business. While said merchant is a cutthroat businessman, blatant sadist, colossal JerkAss, and ''strongly'' implied to be LawfulEvil, there's no evidence they've ever actually done anything wrong (or illegal at least) and they're never anything other than honest and fair with you. Compare this to the clearly ChaoticEvil criminal, who not only admitted to several dangerous crimes against people who had nothing to do with his target (one of which you had to clean up and may have resulted in an innocent man's death) but ''bragged'' about them to your face. Of the four options you're given, nearly all of them are given the wrong alignment by the game's own standards:
** The first option is to let this ObviouslyEvil vengeance-seeker go because it's none of your business. This is classed as Chaotic Neutral and is the only one that's more or less consistent with other dialogue options.
** The second option is to arrest him for his crimes. This is, for some reason, counted as Lawful Evil but is more in line with Lawful Neutral options from earlier quests. With only a minor change in wording this could even be a LawfulGood option.
** The third option is to break your agreement with the merchant and hire the criminal instead. This is counted as Neutral Evil but is more Chaotic Evil, as you're breaking a legal agreement (Chaotic) to hire a known criminal (Evil).
** The final option is to execute him. This is counted as Chaotic Evil, but keeping in mind that he is a dangerous criminal who just admitted to his crimes and showed no remorse at all executing him is more in line with '''Lawful Good''' choices from earlier in the game, which encourage you to kill bandits and other criminals without discussion ([[LawfulStupid which is itself wrong]]: LawfulGood is a focus on ''justice'', not merely ''law'').
* Why isn't it possible to talk Kesten out of a suicidal charge in Chapter 3 without being Lawfully-aligned? Not only does Kesten realize he's being stupid after literally one sentence if you ''are'' Lawful, but Neutral and Chaotic characters should have absolutely no compunction taking advantage of another character's Lawful tendencies for their own ends.
* During the quest to get the two-handed masterwork weapon the artisan asks you to kill the person who murdered their family. This 'murderer' is not hostile to you and if you approach them does not attack, but instead greets you in a friendly way, but a wary one. If you attack them immediately there's no alignment impact, but if you engage them in conversation then attacking them becomes a Chaotic Evil act because now you know who they are. The headscratcher is why it's any ''less'' Chaotic Evil to kill a random non-hostile stranger on the dubious word of one guy for your own personal gain than it is to kill them once you know who they are.
* When you first approach Bartholomew Delgado you find he has a troll slave imprisoned in a cage that he's been using as a lab rat for his experiments. Making him free this slave is considered Chaotic Good since the troll was legally bought. But if you've already met Octavia and Regongar in the previous act, you'd know that ''slavery is illegal'' in the Stolen Lands, meaning freeing the troll should be a Lawful Good action. Even more oddly, if Octavia is with you she never brings this up in her objection despite her being the one to tell you about slavery's illegality.
** This one can be explained (though how well depends on your personal sensibilities); slavery of persons is highly illegal. But... trolls aren't considered ''people'' by any leadership crews. Therefore, Bartholomew Delgado's slavery of the troll is perfectly legal.
[[/folder]]


** In Universe reason: death isn't a binary state (the exact point someone dies is more of a philosophical question), so an instant kill spell would have to be a "does a tonne of damage, which would kill most things" spell. Out of universe reason: An ObviousRulePatch intended to stop players just killing any random thing with tonnes of HP that wasn't explicitly stated to be immune to them (also preventing it from being a UselessUsefulSpell which doesn't do anything to anything worth using it on).

to:

** In Universe reason: death isn't a binary state (the exact point someone dies is more of a philosophical question), so an instant kill spell would have to be a "does a tonne of damage, which would kill most things" spell. Out of universe reason: An ObviousRulePatch intended to stop players just killing any random thing with tonnes of HP that wasn't explicitly stated to be immune to them (also preventing it from being a UselessUsefulSpell which doesn't do anything to anything worth using it on).on).
** This also stops death spells from bypassing Regeneration, which is a common and divisive rules argument in the ''TabletopGame/DungeonsAndDragons'' version that Pathfinder is based off of.


** In Universe reason: death isn't a binary state (the exact point someone dies is more of a philosophical question), so an instant kill spell would have to be a "does a tonne of damage, which would kill most things" spell. Out of universe reason: An ObviousRulePatch intended to stop players just killing any random thing with tonnes of HP that wasn't explicitly stated to be immune to them (also preventing it from being a UselessUsefulSpell which doesn't do anything to anything worth using it on).

Alignment options or restrictions in conversation can lead to a lot of these due to a lack of consistency.

* When dealing with [[spoiler: Sartayne, Nazrielle's apprentice]] you have to decide what to do with a criminal who knowingly created and sold cursed items to the people of your Barony in a revenge-driven plot to ruin the reputation of a weaponsmith who put his father out of business. While said merchant is a cutthroat businessman, blatant sadist, and colossal JerkAss to boot there's no proof they've ever actually done anything wrong. Of the four options you're given and the four alignments tied to them, nearly all of them fall into FridgeLogic by the game's own standards:
** The first option is to let this ObviouslyEvil vengeance-seeker go because it's none of your business. This is classed as Chaotic Neutral and is the only one that's more or less consistent with other dialogue options.
** The second option is to arrest him for his crimes. This is, for some reason, counted as Lawful Evil but is more in line with Lawful Neutral options from earlier quests.
** The third option is to break your agreement with the merchant and hire the criminal instead. This is counted as Neutral Evil but is more Chaotic Evil, as you're breaking a legal agreement (Chaotic) to hire a known criminal (Evil).
** The final option is to execute him. This is counted as Chaotic Evil, but keeping in mind that he is a dangerous criminal who just admitted to his crimes and showed no remorse at all executing him is more in line with '''Lawful Good''' choices from earlier in the game.
* Why isn't it possible to talk Kesten out of a suicidal charge in Chapter 3 without being Lawfully-aligned? Not only does Kesten realize he's being stupid after literally one sentence if you ''are'' Lawful, but Neutral and Chaotic characters should have absolutely no compunction taking advantage of another character's Lawful tendencies for their own ends.
* During the quest to get the two-handed masterwork weapon the artisan asks you to kill the person who murdered their family. This 'murderer' is not hostile to you and if you approach them does not attack, but instead greets you in a friendly way, but a wary one. If you attack them immediately there's no alignment impact, but if you engage them in conversation then attacking them becomes a Chaotic Evil act because now you know who they are. Why it's any ''less'' Chaotic Evil to kill a random non-hostile stranger on the dubious word of one guy for your own personal gain than it is to kill them once you know who they are.
* When you first approach Bartholomew Delgado you find he has a troll slave imprisoned in a cage that he's been using as a lab rat for his experiments. Making him free this slave is considered Chaotic Good since the troll was legally bought. But if you've already met Octavia and Regongar in the previous act, you'd know that ''slavery is illegal'' in the Stolen Lands, meaning freeing the troll should be a Lawful Good action.

to:

** In Universe reason: death isn't a binary state (the exact point someone dies is more of a philosophical question), so an instant kill spell would have to be a "does a tonne of damage, which would kill most things" spell. Out of universe reason: An ObviousRulePatch intended to stop players just killing any random thing with tonnes of HP that wasn't explicitly stated to be immune to them (also preventing it from being a UselessUsefulSpell which doesn't do anything to anything worth using it on).

Alignment options or restrictions in conversation can lead to a lot of these due to a lack of consistency.

* When dealing with [[spoiler: Sartayne, Nazrielle's apprentice]] you have to decide what to do with a criminal who knowingly created and sold cursed items to the people of your Barony in a revenge-driven plot to ruin the reputation of a weaponsmith who put his father out of business. While said merchant is a cutthroat businessman, blatant sadist, and colossal JerkAss to boot there's no proof they've ever actually done anything wrong. Of the four options you're given and the four alignments tied to them, nearly all of them fall into FridgeLogic by the game's own standards:
** The first option is to let this ObviouslyEvil vengeance-seeker go because it's none of your business. This is classed as Chaotic Neutral and is the only one that's more or less consistent with other dialogue options.
** The second option is to arrest him for his crimes. This is, for some reason, counted as Lawful Evil but is more in line with Lawful Neutral options from earlier quests.
** The third option is to break your agreement with the merchant and hire the criminal instead. This is counted as Neutral Evil but is more Chaotic Evil, as you're breaking a legal agreement (Chaotic) to hire a known criminal (Evil).
** The final option is to execute him. This is counted as Chaotic Evil, but keeping in mind that he is a dangerous criminal who just admitted to his crimes and showed no remorse at all executing him is more in line with '''Lawful Good''' choices from earlier in the game.
* Why isn't it possible to talk Kesten out of a suicidal charge in Chapter 3 without being Lawfully-aligned? Not only does Kesten realize he's being stupid after literally one sentence if you ''are'' Lawful, but Neutral and Chaotic characters should have absolutely no compunction taking advantage of another character's Lawful tendencies for their own ends.
* During the quest to get the two-handed masterwork weapon the artisan asks you to kill the person who murdered their family. This 'murderer' is not hostile to you and if you approach them does not attack, but instead greets you in a friendly way, but a wary one. If you attack them immediately there's no alignment impact, but if you engage them in conversation then attacking them becomes a Chaotic Evil act because now you know who they are. Why it's any ''less'' Chaotic Evil to kill a random non-hostile stranger on the dubious word of one guy for your own personal gain than it is to kill them once you know who they are.
* When you first approach Bartholomew Delgado you find he has a troll slave imprisoned in a cage that he's been using as a lab rat for his experiments. Making him free this slave is considered Chaotic Good since the troll was legally bought. But if you've already met Octavia and Regongar in the previous act, you'd know that ''slavery is illegal'' in the Stolen Lands, meaning freeing the troll should be a Lawful Good action.
on).


** In Universe reason: death isn't a binary state (the exact point someone dies is more of a philosophical question), so an instant kill spell would have to be a "does a tonne of damage, which would kill most things" spell. Out of universe reason: An ObviousRulePatch intended to stop players just killing any random thing with tonnes of HP that wasn't explicitly stated to be immune to them (also preventing it from being a UselessUsefulSpell which doesn't do anything to anything worth using it on).

to:

** In Universe reason: death isn't a binary state (the exact point someone dies is more of a philosophical question), so an instant kill spell would have to be a "does a tonne of damage, which would kill most things" spell. Out of universe reason: An ObviousRulePatch intended to stop players just killing any random thing with tonnes of HP that wasn't explicitly stated to be immune to them (also preventing it from being a UselessUsefulSpell which doesn't do anything to anything worth using it on).on).

Alignment options or restrictions in conversation can lead to a lot of these due to a lack of consistency.

* When dealing with [[spoiler: Sartayne, Nazrielle's apprentice]] you have to decide what to do with a criminal who knowingly created and sold cursed items to the people of your Barony in a revenge-driven plot to ruin the reputation of a weaponsmith who put his father out of business. While said merchant is a cutthroat businessman, blatant sadist, and colossal JerkAss to boot there's no proof they've ever actually done anything wrong. Of the four options you're given and the four alignments tied to them, nearly all of them fall into FridgeLogic by the game's own standards:
** The first option is to let this ObviouslyEvil vengeance-seeker go because it's none of your business. This is classed as Chaotic Neutral and is the only one that's more or less consistent with other dialogue options.
** The second option is to arrest him for his crimes. This is, for some reason, counted as Lawful Evil but is more in line with Lawful Neutral options from earlier quests.
** The third option is to break your agreement with the merchant and hire the criminal instead. This is counted as Neutral Evil but is more Chaotic Evil, as you're breaking a legal agreement (Chaotic) to hire a known criminal (Evil).
** The final option is to execute him. This is counted as Chaotic Evil, but keeping in mind that he is a dangerous criminal who just admitted to his crimes and showed no remorse at all executing him is more in line with '''Lawful Good''' choices from earlier in the game.
* Why isn't it possible to talk Kesten out of a suicidal charge in Chapter 3 without being Lawfully-aligned? Not only does Kesten realize he's being stupid after literally one sentence if you ''are'' Lawful, but Neutral and Chaotic characters should have absolutely no compunction taking advantage of another character's Lawful tendencies for their own ends.
* During the quest to get the two-handed masterwork weapon the artisan asks you to kill the person who murdered their family. This 'murderer' is not hostile to you and if you approach them does not attack, but instead greets you in a friendly way, but a wary one. If you attack them immediately there's no alignment impact, but if you engage them in conversation then attacking them becomes a Chaotic Evil act because now you know who they are. Why it's any ''less'' Chaotic Evil to kill a random non-hostile stranger on the dubious word of one guy for your own personal gain than it is to kill them once you know who they are.
* When you first approach Bartholomew Delgado you find he has a troll slave imprisoned in a cage that he's been using as a lab rat for his experiments. Making him free this slave is considered Chaotic Good since the troll was legally bought. But if you've already met Octavia and Regongar in the previous act, you'd know that ''slavery is illegal'' in the Stolen Lands, meaning freeing the troll should be a Lawful Good action.


Why do most death spells do 10xcaster level damage on a failed save rather than just kill? They're ''Death'' spells, not "a lot of damage" spells.

to:

Why do most death spells do 10xcaster level damage on a failed save rather than just kill? They're ''Death'' spells, not "a lot of damage" spells.spells.
** In Universe reason: death isn't a binary state (the exact point someone dies is more of a philosophical question), so an instant kill spell would have to be a "does a tonne of damage, which would kill most things" spell. Out of universe reason: An ObviousRulePatch intended to stop players just killing any random thing with tonnes of HP that wasn't explicitly stated to be immune to them (also preventing it from being a UselessUsefulSpell which doesn't do anything to anything worth using it on).

Added DiffLines:

Why do most death spells do 10xcaster level damage on a failed save rather than just kill? They're ''Death'' spells, not "a lot of damage" spells.

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