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Would HAVE, not would of.


** Oh, and yeah, Linn county is officially the least religious in the nation. But the fringe wicca groups have been decried as Californian outsiders coming up here to 'live in the trees' for 20+ years and heavily disliked by long term natives (multiple generation types) from the valleys. Especially since Southern Oregon, which is further from the region of Northern Oregon that would of been warring, with lot less population, but a still heck of a lot of land that grows food should be a much bigger player. Say Roseburg which has 20k in the town, 50k within another 10 miles of the town, has massive amounts of agriculture land for vegetables and grazing.

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** Oh, and yeah, Linn county is officially the least religious in the nation. But the fringe wicca groups have been decried as Californian outsiders coming up here to 'live in the trees' for 20+ years and heavily disliked by long term natives (multiple generation types) from the valleys. Especially since Southern Oregon, which is further from the region of Northern Oregon that would of have been warring, with lot less population, but a still heck of a lot of land that grows food should be a much bigger player. Say Roseburg which has 20k in the town, 50k within another 10 miles of the town, has massive amounts of agriculture land for vegetables and grazing.
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* Wiki/TheOtherWiki about this novel series mentions that the First World countries will more likely to survive than the Third World countries. Shouldn't it be the other way around; because most of the people in the Third World don't have access to the advanced technology the First World has and most of the people in the First World are too dependent on the advanced technology and people will be too dependent on the advanced technology to the point that most people will ''forget the old technological ways without electricity.''

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* Wiki/TheOtherWiki Website/TheOtherWiki about this novel series mentions that the First World countries will more likely to survive than the Third World countries. Shouldn't it be the other way around; because most of the people in the Third World don't have access to the advanced technology the First World has and most of the people in the First World are too dependent on the advanced technology and people will be too dependent on the advanced technology to the point that most people will ''forget the old technological ways without electricity.''
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Should HAVE, not should of.


** Throwing the cars into the river is damn stupid. Pop em into neutral and roll em. Hard to move them over cement barriers anyways into the water. Besides, too few bridges in Oregon to make it more than an occasional hazard. For example, between Eugene and Corvallis are no bridges (30 miles), then a few in Albany (10 miles), and so on. If the cars died where they were, only a few should of been on bridges at night anyways. It's not like the bridges are packed. Thus, why the heck are the rivers not used? Riverboats and barges used to use the [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steamboats_of_the_Willamette_River Willamette]] and still use the Columbia. It's the only way to do a decent amount of grain transfer. Plus this way you get to use the Mennonites

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** Throwing the cars into the river is damn stupid. Pop em into neutral and roll em. Hard to move them over cement barriers anyways into the water. Besides, too few bridges in Oregon to make it more than an occasional hazard. For example, between Eugene and Corvallis are no bridges (30 miles), then a few in Albany (10 miles), and so on. If the cars died where they were, only a few should of have been on bridges at night anyways. It's not like the bridges are packed. Thus, why the heck are the rivers not used? Riverboats and barges used to use the [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steamboats_of_the_Willamette_River Willamette]] and still use the Columbia. It's the only way to do a decent amount of grain transfer. Plus this way you get to use the Mennonites
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* TheOtherWiki about this novel series mentions that the First World countries will more likely to survive than the Third World countries. Shouldn't it be the other way around; because most of the people in the Third World don't have access to the advanced technology the First World has and most of the people in the First World are too dependent on the advanced technology and people will be too dependent on the advanced technology to the point that most people will ''forget the old technological ways without electricity.''

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* TheOtherWiki Wiki/TheOtherWiki about this novel series mentions that the First World countries will more likely to survive than the Third World countries. Shouldn't it be the other way around; because most of the people in the Third World don't have access to the advanced technology the First World has and most of the people in the First World are too dependent on the advanced technology and people will be too dependent on the advanced technology to the point that most people will ''forget the old technological ways without electricity.''
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** The problem the Bearkillers face is similar to that faced by Thurston's regime in Idaho: not enough people in the current generation have had experience with democracy. After Mike's death, the two ''de facto'' leaders of the outfit were teenagers pre-Change who possibly hadn't even reached voting age before the world fell apart. Once the senior generation of Bearkillers is gone (and it pretty much is within a single generation of the Change) there's no frame of reference for democracy. And while Thurston could at least keep the state and local governments in Idaho intact (albeit under martial law) the Havel clan was starting from scratch. So the death of direct democracy was somewhat faster in the Bearkiller lands.
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*** WordOfGod is that the pre-Change world is not ''precisely'' our own world. There are some differences--some subtle, some more significant. The wreck of the ''[[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SS_Edmund_Fitzgerald Edmund Fitzgerald]]'' is discovered on the shores of Lake Michigan, for example, implying that it did not sink in 1975 as in our world but stayed in service up till the Change. So it's possible that in this world the Mennonites settled elsewhere. It's a good way of covering gaps in research without compromising the story.
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** Possibly explained by simple author bias--Stirling's works seem big-L Libertarian in tone; London was an avowed Socialist.

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** Possibly explained by simple author bias--Stirling's works seem big-L Libertarian in tone; London was an avowed Socialist.Socialist.
**As for those informative plaques, people probably would have scavenged the metal.
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minor commentary re jack london


* [[spoiler: In ''The Given Sacrifice'' Jack London's estate in Sonoma County, California is restored to working order, but Ingolf and company have no idea who Jack London was. Granted, Ingolf's lifestyle doesn't lend itself to a lot of reading, but we know he's been around better educated people (like Rudi, Mathilda, and Father Ignatius) who at least would have heard of Jack London. Unlike a lot of 20th century literature London's work (particularly ''The Sea Wolf'', ''White Fang'', and ''Call of the Wild'') would resonate well with post-Change society and would at least be available in any large surviving libraries (both the Oregon State University library and the Portland city library would be available to the characters). This is especially glaring since, at the time of the Change, the estate was a state park and would have been fully designated with signs, bronze plaques, etc. explaining to the odd visitor exactly who Jack London was and why he was important. Some of this information should have survived.]]

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* [[spoiler: In ''The Given Sacrifice'' Jack London's estate in Sonoma County, California is restored to working order, but Ingolf and company have no idea who Jack London was. Granted, Ingolf's lifestyle doesn't lend itself to a lot of reading, but we know he's been around better educated people (like Rudi, Mathilda, and Father Ignatius) who at least would have heard of Jack London. Unlike a lot of 20th century literature London's work (particularly ''The Sea Wolf'', ''White Fang'', and ''Call of the Wild'') would resonate well with post-Change society and would at least be available in any large surviving libraries (both the Oregon State University library and the Portland city library would be available to the characters). This is especially glaring since, at the time of the Change, the estate was a state park and would have been fully designated with signs, bronze plaques, etc. explaining to the odd visitor exactly who Jack London was and why he was important. Some of this information should have survived.]]]]
** Possibly explained by simple author bias--Stirling's works seem big-L Libertarian in tone; London was an avowed Socialist.
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* [[spoiler: In ''The Given Sacrifice'' Jack London's estate in Sonoma County, California is restored to working order, but Ingolf and company have no idea who Jack London was. Granted, Ingolf's lifestyle doesn't lend itself to a lot of reading, but we know he's been around better educated people (like Rudi, Mathilda, and Father Ignatius) who at least would have heard of Jack London. Unlike a lot of 20th century literature London's work (particularly ''The Sea Wolf'', ''White Fang'', and ''Call of the Wild'') would resonate well with post-Change society and would at least be available in any large surviving libraries (both the Oregon State University library and the Portland city library would be available to the characters). This is especially glaring since, at the time of the Change, the estate was a state park with a ''museum dedicated to London'' on its grounds. At least some information should have survived, even if the characters weren't immediately acquainted with Jack London at first.]]

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* [[spoiler: In ''The Given Sacrifice'' Jack London's estate in Sonoma County, California is restored to working order, but Ingolf and company have no idea who Jack London was. Granted, Ingolf's lifestyle doesn't lend itself to a lot of reading, but we know he's been around better educated people (like Rudi, Mathilda, and Father Ignatius) who at least would have heard of Jack London. Unlike a lot of 20th century literature London's work (particularly ''The Sea Wolf'', ''White Fang'', and ''Call of the Wild'') would resonate well with post-Change society and would at least be available in any large surviving libraries (both the Oregon State University library and the Portland city library would be available to the characters). This is especially glaring since, at the time of the Change, the estate was a state park and would have been fully designated with a ''museum dedicated signs, bronze plaques, etc. explaining to London'' on its grounds. At least some the odd visitor exactly who Jack London was and why he was important. Some of this information should have survived, even if the characters weren't immediately acquainted with Jack London at first.survived.]]

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