Follow TV Tropes

Following

History Headscratchers / Bakuman

Go To

OR

Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


** Maybe they thought it would weed out people that wanted to join thinknig it would be a cake walk.

to:

** Maybe they thought it would weed out people that wanted to join thinknig it would be a cake walk.walk.
** The series has some criticisms of the industry, but in the end, it expresses that while being a manga artist is an extremely demanding and competitive profession, the people who succeed are (mostly) hard-working, creative and passionate individuals who entertain their fans. It's a bit like what ''VideoGame/Persona4DancingAllNight'' does for the IdolSinger industry- criticizes the industry but celebrates the performers.
* Before Miyoshi gets married to Takagi, she calls him by his last name without honorifics, but starts using "-san" on him after they switch to a FirstNameBasis. Does anyone know why this is? Is this at all normal for Japanese married couples?
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:


** Furthermore. That one line Saiko's father says actually explains and makes sense when you think of it in the context of a common trope, how WomenAreWiser. "Men have Dreams that Women can't understand." Think about it in the context of that trope, in that women are typically wiser and more knowledgeable than men. The line means in that context that women, with more common wisdom to them (like why being a manga-ka is a painfully bad idea from a logical standpoint) therefore actually go against dreams because of that wisdom, being by that logic unable to understand why a man would seek out a goal that makes no sense. Men, by the same logic of having less wisdom, are in turn perceived as being able to dream bigger than women, unrestrained by common wisdom of what is "the smart thing" to do. The men will, by this logic, have seemingly insane dreams the wiser women can't understand. So there you have it, an explanation of how that one line is actually a subtle case of PositiveDiscrimination for ''both'' genders; women are wise, but therefore are much more grounded in their realities, while men are less wise and therefore much more free to dream big and accept the consequences.

to:

** Furthermore. That one line Saiko's father says actually explains and makes sense when you think of it in the context of a common trope, how WomenAreWiser. "Men have Dreams that Women can't understand." Think about it in the context of that trope, in that women are typically wiser and more knowledgeable than men. The line means in that context that women, with more common wisdom to them (like why being a manga-ka is a painfully bad idea from a logical standpoint) therefore actually go against dreams because of that wisdom, being by that logic unable to understand why a man would seek out a goal that makes no sense. Men, by the same logic of having less wisdom, are in turn perceived as being able to dream bigger than women, unrestrained by common wisdom of what is "the smart thing" to do. The men will, by this logic, have seemingly insane dreams the wiser women can't understand. So there you have it, an explanation of how that one line is actually a subtle case of PositiveDiscrimination positive discrimination for ''both'' genders; women are wise, but therefore are much more grounded in their realities, while men are less wise and therefore much more free to dream big and accept the consequences.

Added: 263

Changed: 330

Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


** Is there a question here?



* Given some of the damning things that this work says about the industry, how'd Weekly Shonen Jump allow them to get away with this?

to:

** Setting aside the fact that starting a new and successful manga magazine company would be a lot harder than getting a manga published in an established one, the main thing is that he lost on terms he set to a mangaka he gave up on. His ego was a lot more than just bruised at that point.
* Given some of the damning things that this work says about the industry, how'd Weekly Shonen Jump allow them to get away with this?this?
** Maybe they thought it would weed out people that wanted to join thinknig it would be a cake walk.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
Dewicking Not So Different as it is now a disambig.


** Simply put, Nakai was allowed redemption by Hiramaru's offer for a few different reasons. One being that they were both drunk/punch drunk, and not entirely all there. Second, Hiramaru was considering Nakai to be NotSoDifferent to what he himself could become, and felt like giving the guy a hand. Third, and this is what really matters, Nakai held himself back from hitting his MoralEventHorizon. With Aoki right there for him to assault/whatever the hell else he could think of, he basically had the woman he hated in his hands... But stopped himself. By holding himself back from attacking her, he stopped himself from jumping any farther down [[JumpingOffTheSlipperySlope the Slippery Slope,]] and Hiramaru took this opportunity to give Nakai a hand in moving on. This stops Nakai from having a grudge against Aoki and frees her from any feelings of guilt, Hiramaru gets to look semi-badass in front of the woman he likes, and Nakai himself gets another shot at life as a mangaka, and this time without having Nanamine's influence.

to:

** Simply put, Nakai was allowed redemption by Hiramaru's offer for a few different reasons. One being that they were both drunk/punch drunk, and not entirely all there. Second, Hiramaru was considering Nakai to be NotSoDifferent not so different to what he himself could become, and felt like giving the guy a hand. Third, and this is what really matters, Nakai held himself back from hitting his MoralEventHorizon. With Aoki right there for him to assault/whatever the hell else he could think of, he basically had the woman he hated in his hands... But stopped himself. By holding himself back from attacking her, he stopped himself from jumping any farther down [[JumpingOffTheSlipperySlope the Slippery Slope,]] and Hiramaru took this opportunity to give Nakai a hand in moving on. This stops Nakai from having a grudge against Aoki and frees her from any feelings of guilt, Hiramaru gets to look semi-badass in front of the woman he likes, and Nakai himself gets another shot at life as a mangaka, and this time without having Nanamine's influence.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* Why doesn't Nanamine just start his own magazine after being defeated the second time? Yeah, his ego is bruised as he didn't defeat Ashirogi the way he wanted to, but in the end he did just want to create manga, right? He has four floors of a building, massive staff, so many one-shots and potential series that ''are'' popular; as a new magazine, he'd seem to do fairly well. It's not ''Jump'', but considering how much money he's put behind his story production already...

to:

* Why doesn't Nanamine just start his own magazine after being defeated the second time? Yeah, his ego is bruised as he didn't defeat Ashirogi the way he wanted to, but in the end he did just want to create manga, right? He has four floors of a building, massive staff, so many one-shots and potential series that ''are'' popular; as a new magazine, he'd seem to do fairly well. It's not ''Jump'', but considering how much money he's put behind his story production already...already...
* Given some of the damning things that this work says about the industry, how'd Weekly Shonen Jump allow them to get away with this?
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None

Added DiffLines:

** There's nothing inherently wrong with Iwase's reasons for writing manga, and as long as she shows it dignity and respect as a medium, which she clearly does, she doesn't necessarily have to like it. Look at Hiramaru, who makes it blindingly obvious that he loathes his job and needs even more shallow motivations than Iwase in order to work. At the end of the day, Iwase clearly does enjoy writing manga... just not for the sake of manga itself, but as a medium of competition and pride, which is totally in character for her. Iwase is a complex character who we clearly see grow over the course of the series, and learns to respect manga and mangaka as art and artists, but that doesn't necessarily mean she has to personally enjoy writing manga in any sense beyond the things that bring her joy normally, aka competing with Takagi. That's where her love of writing manga comes from, the competition. It's just a more drastic version of how Ashirogi's rivalry with Eiji drives them to put more into their works.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None

Added DiffLines:

** Also at that point Hiramaru had made it clear that he was not going to allow Fukuda or anyone else stop Nakai or talk him down, and was in the process of getting severely beaten for his actions, and even tried to shift Nakai's hatred onto himself. She probably felt that her direct interference was the only way to actually stop Hiramaru from getting injured further. Not wanting anyone else to get injured for her sake probably played a part in her decision to step in as well.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None

Added DiffLines:

*** That's not accurate. What Shujin says makes Iwase unattractive isn't that she's smart, it's that she's haughty about it. Iwase is stuck up and prides herself on being smarter than everyone else, and that would be offputting to a lot of people regardless of gender. If Iwase was a smart, determined person who was more modest and didn't look down on other people, then she would be a better person, and liked more; we see this carried out in her actual development as a character in the future. Shujin isn't saying that Azuki is "smart" for not trying to hard and choosing a "girly dream" he's complimenting her skill at adapting herself to best fit the role she wants to serve in society. If Azuki wanted to be a corporate CEO, then she would behave in a way she would see as most fitting to that, instead of behaving in a way she thinks would best suit a voice-actress or wife. If Shujin is accurate in his assessment of Azuki, then all this means is that Azuki wants to be feminine and wants to be seen as girly and cute, and so she subconsciously focuses on actions that will give off this air. Shujin isn't saying that Azuki is better than Iwase because Iwase works hard and Azuki is just focused on stereotypical feminine things, he's saying that Azuki is smarter than Iwase because she focuses on traits that will get her where she wants to be in life, and while Iwase does the same, she's arrogant about it. Saying that Azuki doesn't work hard to be a voice actress is like saying Shujin and Mashiro don't work hard at being mangaka; they're all working hard. Bakuman is a manga about working hard. The difference between Azuki and Iwase is that Iwase works hard AND looks down on others, where Azuki doesn't. When Iwase stops being conceited and gains more respect for others while still retaining her pride, she becomes a better character because she becomes a better person, not because she fits into some feminine ideal.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
Outdated indexing mark-up, in the middle of the page?


<<|ItJustBugsMe|>>
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


** It's worth pointing out that Mashiro and Azuki are, despite their humble beginnings, essentially Japanese celebrities, being half of a best-selling mangaka duo, and a voice actress who could reasonably expect to land a main heroine role, respectively. It's natural that they'd attract a fair amount of attention and controversy over their relationship. Miura once says "Voice acting is a job that sells dreams[[note]]I wonder if he means people fantasizing about getting together with their favorite idols, or imagining them as someone who wouldn't settle down with someone[[/note]], so I can understand the fans being annoyed, but..." Additionally, with the exception of the anonymous posters and Miho's manager (who has virtually no respect for her individual wishes, as seen in the gravure photo album incident back when Mashiro first got serialized), ''everyone'' thinks that Mashiro and Azuki haven't done anything wrong, which could underscore how unreasonable the backlash is.

to:

** It's worth pointing out that Mashiro and Azuki are, despite their humble beginnings, essentially Japanese celebrities, being half of a best-selling mangaka duo, and a voice actress who could reasonably expect to land a main heroine role, respectively. It's natural that they'd attract a fair amount of attention and controversy over their relationship. Miura once says "Voice acting is a job that sells dreams[[note]]I wonder if he means people fantasizing about getting together with their favorite idols, or imagining them as someone who wouldn't settle down with someone[[/note]], so I can understand the fans being annoyed, but..." Additionally, with the exception of the anonymous posters and Miho's manager (who has virtually no respect for her individual wishes, as seen in the gravure photo album incident back when Mashiro first got serialized), ''everyone'' thinks that Mashiro and Azuki haven't done anything wrong, which could underscore how unreasonable the backlash is.is.
* Both Mashiro and Takagi are idiots when it comes to manga and storytelling. They have skills, but they are ''constantly'' treating tropes and story structure brought to their attentino as amazing, never before thought of ideas. The most prominent example is when they need a single issue story for PVP, and Takagi seems only to work in arcs. But once told and rereading old manga, the idea that using minor lines and stuff from previous stories and working it into retroactive foreshadowing is mindblowing to him. There's so many more; and I get part of point of the story is teaching/showing how the manga industry works, but too many times when the story stuff happens to them, they are ''years'' into their career, treating fairly basic ideas as godsends.
* Why doesn't Nanamine just start his own magazine after being defeated the second time? Yeah, his ego is bruised as he didn't defeat Ashirogi the way he wanted to, but in the end he did just want to create manga, right? He has four floors of a building, massive staff, so many one-shots and potential series that ''are'' popular; as a new magazine, he'd seem to do fairly well. It's not ''Jump'', but considering how much money he's put behind his story production already...

Added: 574

Changed: 1

Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


*** Seriously. Look, that a character in a manga is a sexist does ''not'' mean the creator is a sexist. The movie ''Downfall'' is about Adolf Hitler. Does that mean that the director of ''Downfall'' must be a Nazi as well? Of course not. You might as well say that since Light Yagami is the protagonist of ''Death Note'', Obata and Ohba support mass murder. Obata & Ohba have never ever said that we're supposed to agree with everything that Shujin and Mashiro say and think, or that Aoki is meant to represent womankind as a whole. If you assume that, it's not their fault.



* About the sexism, right in the beginning Shujin points out that the hardworking Iwase just creepy guys out while Azuki is "smart" for not trying too hard and choosing a "girly dream" she can enjoy instead of aiming high.

to:

* ** About the sexism, right in the beginning Shujin points out that the hardworking Iwase just creepy guys out while Azuki is "smart" for not trying too hard and choosing a "girly dream" she can enjoy instead of aiming high.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None

Added DiffLines:

*About the sexism, right in the beginning Shujin points out that the hardworking Iwase just creepy guys out while Azuki is "smart" for not trying too hard and choosing a "girly dream" she can enjoy instead of aiming high.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* When the characters wink solemnly or their noses become quasi-realistic, what does it ''mean''? (Any HikaruNoGo readers willing to pitch in here? I have a tentative theory for the first bit that Obata just has a thing for people covering their right eyes.)

to:

* When the characters wink solemnly or their noses become quasi-realistic, what does it ''mean''? (Any HikaruNoGo ''Manga/HikaruNoGo'' readers willing to pitch in here? I have a tentative theory for the first bit that Obata just has a thing for people covering their right eyes.)
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


*** I don't mean the whole sexism angle that gets widely debated from fans of the series. I mean the absurdity of the whole thing. There could have been a point where like their parents, Mashiro and Azuki could have gotten bored of the arrangement and eventually one of them decided to start a relationship up with someone else. That would have made all the hard work and time that they were apart just to be successful before being together completely pointless.

to:

*** I don't mean the whole sexism angle that gets widely debated from fans of the series. I mean the absurdity of the whole thing. There could have been a point where like their parents, uncle and mother, Mashiro and Azuki could have gotten bored of the arrangement and eventually one of them decided to start a relationship up with someone else. That would have made all the hard work and time that they were apart just to be successful before being together completely pointless.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
Added to earlier Bakuman question.

Added DiffLines:

*** I don't mean the whole sexism angle that gets widely debated from fans of the series. I mean the absurdity of the whole thing. There could have been a point where like their parents, Mashiro and Azuki could have gotten bored of the arrangement and eventually one of them decided to start a relationship up with someone else. That would have made all the hard work and time that they were apart just to be successful before being together completely pointless.

Changed: 17

Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


** It's worth pointing out that Mashiro and Azuki are, despite their humble beginnings, essentially Japanese celebrities, being half of a best-selling mangaka duo, and a voice actress who could reasonably expect to land a main heroine role, respectively. It's natural that they'd attract a fair amount of attention and controversy over their relationship. Miura once says "Voice acting is a job that sells dreams[[hottip:note:I wonder if he means people fantasizing about getting together with their favorite idols, or imagining them as someone who wouldn't settle down with someone]], so I can understand the fans being annoyed, but..." Additionally, with the exception of the anonymous posters and Miho's manager (who has virtually no respect for her individual wishes, as seen in the gravure photo album incident back when Mashiro first got serialized), ''everyone'' thinks that Mashiro and Azuki haven't done anything wrong, which could underscore how unreasonable the backlash is.

to:

** It's worth pointing out that Mashiro and Azuki are, despite their humble beginnings, essentially Japanese celebrities, being half of a best-selling mangaka duo, and a voice actress who could reasonably expect to land a main heroine role, respectively. It's natural that they'd attract a fair amount of attention and controversy over their relationship. Miura once says "Voice acting is a job that sells dreams[[hottip:note:I dreams[[note]]I wonder if he means people fantasizing about getting together with their favorite idols, or imagining them as someone who wouldn't settle down with someone]], someone[[/note]], so I can understand the fans being annoyed, but..." Additionally, with the exception of the anonymous posters and Miho's manager (who has virtually no respect for her individual wishes, as seen in the gravure photo album incident back when Mashiro first got serialized), ''everyone'' thinks that Mashiro and Azuki haven't done anything wrong, which could underscore how unreasonable the backlash is.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None

Added DiffLines:

** Presumably, he feels she might think he's only going out with her for his uncle's sake, and not because he likes her.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None

Added DiffLines:

** If they went into that much detail about the individual mangas, it would most likely detract from the actual plot of the manga. The changes in the manga you mention actually being discussed (gag/story etc.) would genuinely change how the manga is written, and change the audience reading said manga, and most importantly, it would affect the plot of Bakuman. The content details of the individual mangas don't really affect the plot overall, so it doesn't go into much detail there.

Top