Previous Trope Repair Shop thread: Misused
, started by WhatArtThee on Apr 15th 2017 at 1:48:41 AM
Previous Trope Repair Shop thread: Misused, started by WhatArtThee on Apr 20th 2017 at 4:46:07 PM
Boy, this is a big train wreck of a page. There's definitely something to be said about the difference between public recognition of a facet of culture vs that facet of culture's actual real life popularity. And there's even ways to compare these two things objectively.
But this article sure is all over the place.
I mean, in the examples, we have Tech N9ne, with obscure music but a somewhat less obscure public image. And then you have Flo Rida, with incredibly successful music, but like no public image. So which is this supposed to cover? They are on opposite sides of the spectrum.
And then you got people saying totally random baseless things like "nobody can name 2 Wiz Khalifa songs" or "nobody can name more than 3 DJ Khaled songs".
Like, what? You could say that about almost any artist on their level of popularity.
This seems like a kinda unnecessary page. It just looks to me like hipster-wannabes going "Yes, you may know of this, but how many of you have actually SEEN it?"
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As much as I like this page I have the same problem with it. Many examples here are classics that may indeed not be known to most of the general public or young teenagers, but are still available in libraries and stores for those who are interested. Most have never gone out of print. Many titles are even required reading or viewing in schools and universities. In fact: if someone hasn't checked these works out it's more because they aren't interested or aware of them in the first place.
Or because people are just too young. I can imagine a 15 year old troper never having seen Singin' in the Rain, but let's be honest here: that film is still regularly shown on TV. If you grow older and really want to see it you're bound to have a chance to do so sooner or later.
In some cases it's just Pop-Culture Isolation or We All Live in America. Moby-Dick is considered a classic in many American schools where it is put on the required reading lists, but not as much in European schools. William Shakespeare is required reading in all English-speaking countries, but in other countries he may be discussed in a general overview during literature class, but without people actually having to read or attend one of his plays. I can imagine Johann Wolfgang von Goethe being nothing more than a name to many people outside German speaking countries, but within countries like Germany, Switzerland or Austria, to name a few, he is still on the curriculum.
Edited by Patachou
This is true. Ironically, there's a lot of Fandom Myopia, which is supposed to be its opposite, going on in this one.
"Hey! Did you know that some people who have HEARD of Super Mario haven't PLAYED Super Mario? How crazy is THAT!?"
This needs massive, massive work. I would say more than 50% of the examples... aren't!
hbi2k removed the Shadow entry on the grounds that the character was obscure in general, but I disagree pretty strongly. Certainly the character's comic-strip depiction, "the Shadow knows," etc., are still well-known chestnuts ... except, perhaps, among the extremely young. If no one has any objections—and I'll give folks a day or two to voice them—I'll restore the original entry below:
- The Shadow knows ... but virtually no one knows The Shadow. These days, it's a rare bird indeed who has experienced the original Walter Gibson novels, or any of his numerous radio, comic-book, and film adaptations (even the Alec Baldwin joint was ill-attended).
Removed:
- William Shakespeare: the most famous author in the English language, author of 38 extant plays and 154 sonnets, coiner of numerous words and phrases, namer of 23 tropes, with an adjective and an unofficial period of history named after him. Just about all of his work is considered to be great, yet most people probably could not even name more than ten of his plays, and even that is with the benefit of movie adaptations. This is lampshaded by the Reduced Shakespeare Company:
Daniel: "How many of you have seen or read a Shakespeare play?"(whole audience raises their hands)Daniel: "Oh, all right. How many of you have seen King John?"(Adam, planted in the audience, raises his hand)Daniel: "Oh, yeah, right."
Shakespeare doesn't work as a general catch-all because most people have read something by Shakespeare before leaving school. Shakespeare plays that are commonly assigned in school, like Romeo and Juliet and Hamlet, are not obscure, so they're not examples. The plays that people tend to not see or read, like King John, few people have even heard of, so they're not mainstream.
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Yes, at least for Americans. Moby Dick is a common reading assignment in high schools, so a lot of people have read it.
Dickens doesn't work either since Great Expectations is usually required reading in the UK for secondary school students.
Does Singing in the Rain really count? I was under the impression that, like The Wizard of Oz, Singing in the Rain is one of those classics that is widely seen when you're growing up.
Is not actually from Lyniezia
I'm going to remove the first paragraph re. Citizen Kane, as not "everyone" knows what "Rosebud" was, and it would defeat the whole point to spoiler-tag it. To leave it in has just ruined the whole movie for those of us who didn't know that.
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The paragraph in question:
Rosebud was a sled that Charles Foster Kane owned when he was a kid. Everyone knows that. You even know that "rosebud" was the last word of Kane on his deathbed, and that the entire plot of the film is based on finding out just what that word meant. But have you actually ever watched Citizen Kane? Don't worry if you haven't. As it turns out, you're not alone. Most people haven't seen what is widely regarded as the greatest movie ever made.
[EDIT: added spoiler tag to the offending part which wasn't there originally]
Edited by 70.33.253.42
We literally have a Trope called It Was His Sled.
Found a Youtube Channel with political stances you want to share? Hop on over to this page and add them.
Yes I know- it was linked in the paragraph I removed. Still ruined the ending for me.
This article ruined a perfectly good book that I was interesting in looking at by defining the term "Rosebud".
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And a perfectly good film for me. I just started watching Citizen Kane the other day. Could we possibly stick that in spoiler tags or edit it out?
Queen of Filks
Deleted this line, regarding Pilgrim's Progress.
- Actually, if you attended a Christian school during your childhood, then you probably have read it.
Probably this was true in the past, but I attended Catholic school for thirteen years, was never made to read this, and never met anyone who did read it.
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Pilgrim's Progress is very much a Protestant book, so hardly surprising. John Bunyan was a noted Non-Conformist who was imprisoned for his beliefs in the nominally Protestant England, so doubly so.
What kind of people are we that we need a Troper Tales page for this?
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This trope is soooo confusing under closer inspection. If anything, it should be called Selective Obscurity instead.
Just opening the literature section of the trope made me realise that I HAD TO read many of the things that are under Prose during my education. Nobody asked me if I wanted, I simply had to if I planned to finish the school. And so did the previous generation and current one that's going through schools, meaning the related works are just pure mainstream, even if the familiarity with the work in question is enforced, rather than "natural".
In the same time, variety of pop-culture books that are listed there as "mainstream", never even received a translation into my native (at least an official one), and thus being just simply obscure.
And I absolutely adore the fact that for over a decade, the discussion section for this trope is just asking what's the point of it. Because while I get the general concept, the execution is just plain terrible. In fact, that would be probably the first time I found a trope that I consider not just in need of serious fixing, but outright cutting.