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metaphysician
topic
04:26:07 PM Nov 27th 2012
Okay, just as an open question: Is it just me, or does this entire trope seem kind of pointless? The definition is "no advocacy piece opposing something can be 100% effective", which while true seems kind of useless as a conclusion. If *every* ( or nearly every ) piece of fiction for which the trope could apply, it does apply, is it really a trope?

The only way I can see a piece of fiction realistically avoiding this trope is by not containing an advocacy aesop at all. Otherwise, its either effective fiction ( and thus this trope is in effect, since its desirable enough to be worth experiencing ), or its ineffective fiction ( and thus this trope is in effect because no one cares, or are actively inspired to the opposite in spite ).
MagBas
12:43:38 PM Jan 22nd 2014
Well, this trope was nominated to the ymmv banner in the "Pages that need the YMMV banner" thread by a motive...
AnonymousMcCartneyfan
topic
02:02:32 PM Jul 6th 2012
I think one could argue that Confessions of a Shopaholic is a Stealth Cigarette Commercial. It's not so much that the viewers reject the Aesop as that the filmmakers appear to.
Lilwik
topic
11:33:20 PM Jan 1st 2012
I'm not understanding the Watchmen example. It's not clear what the cool thing is supposed to be:
  • Watchmen has landed in this trope because of Misaimed Fandom. Many people thought it was a conventional hero vs. villain story, only Darker and Edgier. For instance, Rorschach's violent tendencies were copied by Dark Age "antiheroes" to make them equally badass. Moore and Gibbons made Rorschach a dirt poor homophobe raised with a prostitute for a mother, the Comedian a rapist who can't even connect with his own daughter, and a certain brilliant plan be rejected by a Physical God. Nonetheless, comics to this very day emulate it.

So, is this about what comics should not do? Do not emulate this comic because they are trying to show how not to make comics? Were they hoping that Watchmen would make no money to prove their message of how terrible it is to make comics in that style? Or is it something to do with not being a superhero?

It makes sense to run an ad to try to stop people from abusing drugs, but would anyone ever run an ad to show the horrors of badly made ads? Whatever you do, don't emulate this ad; we really should never have even made it.
cptmyname
topic
03:44:59 PM Nov 24th 2011
I don't see how any of the family guy examples follow this trope, should we take them out?
Kilyle
topic
07:58:41 AM May 31st 2011
Which war movie has a scene where "our side" (I assume Americans, but not certain) gets napalmed by their own planes, and when two guys are trying to lift one fallen man to get him to safety, his calf muscle comes right off the bone like so much cooked turkey?

Even live footage of the Holocaust never horrified me as much as that single image.
Dioschorium
topic
02:55:49 PM Feb 13th 2011
I must contest the paragraph about the D.A.R.E. program. When I went through it in fifth grade (it was a regular feature for approximately a semester), the police officer stressed that recreational drug use was most definitely uncommon among people of our age group. As one might expect, most of the students didn't enjoy the sessions, but that had no relation to the information itself. (Personally, I was receptive to D.A.R.E. sessions because they preempted gym class.)
DoktorvonEurotrash
topic
06:54:15 AM Feb 13th 2011
edited by DoktorvonEurotrash
The District 9 example looks iffy to me. "People watch it for the action scenes and don't notice the message" isn't this trope. If the film made apartheid look good, there would be a point in putting it here.
robybang
topic
03:41:11 PM Jan 19th 2011
Are we allowed to do in-fiction examples, or is this specifically on the work itself?
DoktorvonEurotrash
06:51:31 AM Feb 13th 2011
Can't see why not.
DoktorvonEurotrash
topic
03:53:25 AM Sep 25th 2010
Took this out:

  • Coccoon showed that old people are people to, and like to do all the things young people, and can do them—have sex, dance, swim, laugh, and play. But the old people in the movie had been given some Phlebotinum to make them young again despite their unchanged outward appearance, and are contrasted with all the other old people, who still act like stereotypical old people.

That's more a case of Broken Aesop.
151.64.94.162
topic
06:49:57 AM May 24th 2010
Truffaut? OK, but: where does - if he does - Truffaut say these things about war-movies? The only reference I found is in Roger Ebert, Awake in the dark. Forty years of reviews, essays, and interviews, Chicago, University of Chicago Press, p. 157 (review of Platoon): "It was Francois Truffaut who said that it's not possible to make an anti-war movie, because all war movies, with their energy and sense of adventure, end up making combat look like fun". So: is it a Rogert Ebert's trope or a Truffaut's one?
Lilwik
03:44:48 PM May 24th 2012
Roger Ebert has been known to get facts wrong sometimes, but if he says that Truffaut said that, then I believe it probably happened.
AnonymousMcCartneyfan
topic
09:34:08 PM Apr 29th 2010
There are way too many "aversions" in the example list....
SomeGuy
11:35:33 AM Apr 30th 2010
I agree. I deleted all those examples and put up a note stating that "aversion" of this trope is usually someone successfully invoking a completely different one
CaptainCrawdad
topic
07:01:37 PM Mar 21st 2010
Removed this:

  • The Warriors attempts to make the life of a street gang look nasty, brutish and short, emphasized by the song "In The City" over the credits. But the cult following of the movie only seems to care about how badass the gangs were.

Only one scene, the run-in with the prom kids, has any attempt to show gang life in a possible negative light. Even in that scene, our hero Swan stares back at the middle-class kids with unapologetic pride and restrains Glory from feeling embarrassed for herself. If anything, the film is a celebration of its fantasy version of New York gang life as a throw-back to ancient warrior cultures.
Camacan
moderator
topic
01:05:52 AM Mar 13th 2010
Moved the stuff about ultra-conservatives to the discussion page: it seems rather flame-baitish.

  • The new ultra-conservative Christian backlash against hugging is an example of this. They go out of their way to point out how what makes it "sexual" in their minds is it involves the crotches touching.
    • Oh, come on, you've gotta be making that up.
    • Umm... this troper is a conservative Christian who has never, ever heard of anything even remotely resembling this. From what I've seen hugging is a normal form of greeting at churches. I suspect someone is being less than honest here.
    • Ahem...
Camacan
moderator
topic
01:04:43 AM Mar 13th 2010
I moved V for Vendetta from the main article: this text doesn't appear to address how V for Vendetta is an example of "Dont' Do This Cool Thing''.

  • Similarly the V for Vendetta comic, where V represents anarchy and the Norsefire regime represents fascism—neither is really "the good guys". V does some pretty heinous things and some of the members of the regime are decent people working for an evil government.
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