When They Cry - Higurashi and Umineko:

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1976 Lyendith10th Oct 2012 04:08:51 AM from Bègles, France , Relationship Status: Buried in snow, waiting for spring
So it seems, and that makes me curious. Things apparently go much less smoothly than in Matsuribayashi.


So, Episode 6 is finished… and… I don't really know what to think of it. I liked it and yet I can't help but feeling frustrated at the end. All this talk about The Power of Love is wonderful but it doesn't seem to answer any question; I spent most of the Episode wondering what the hell was going on, or rather why that was going on. Especially the "lover trial". What was the point of this thing? And is Kanon Deader Than Dead or not? How was his duel with Shannon a hint to save Battler? Talking about Kanon, I'm not a big fan of his real name… for some reason I can't seem to get used to it. It sounds like a last name.

I also feel a bit uncomfortable regarding Battler and Beato becoming an Official Couple. I'm not displeased to have my shipping come true but that's a bit sudden… in the span of 2 Episodes they went from deadly enemies to happily married. But since it's lampshaded several times, it seems this is meant to be sudden and baffling (although besides Ange nobody seems surprised at all actually, even George and Jessica). I'm just disappointed on one thing: THERE IS NO GODDAMN KISS! TT___TT If you want to marry, at least do things properly, jeez.

About Asumu, my supposition since Episode 3 that Kyrie had murdered the hypotenuse in a "clever way" was off but not by much. After reading that I'm starting to find Kyrie a tad bit insane. ^_^"

Other things that bug me… piece!Battler is marked "dead on the first twilight", even though he's… not. After all, him being alive is part of what caused the logic error in the first place. Also, how come Natsuhi doesn't recognize Beatrice? Isn't she supposed to be her accomplice in hiding Kinzō's death? And finally, what happens to Beatrice? Did she die just after marrying him? Or did he give up on killing her?

All in all, even though everyone says the game is over, it doesn't look that way to me… after all the last game was suspended, which means that, not only those who were killed will remain dead, but the survivors will just… stay there in frozen time without ever returning home. That's also why this Episode leaves me with a weird taste: it's as if the hero's goal had changed mid-way. As if he didn't care anymore about returning home.

Then, I'm surprised of Erika's backstory… I mean I'm surprised that she has a backstory at all. I thought she was just a piece created by Bernkastel for this game but it's a bit more complicated apparently.

And on a side-note, am I screwed up if during the scene where Erika puts the submission ring on Battler I had the impression of reading… something else?


Well, let's speculate. At the end of the game, the two lovebirds declare that including Erika, there are 17 people on the island. So one of the 18 people doesn't really exist. ( ヱリカさんを迎えても… 十七人だ。) If I didn't misread, the only one who has no attach whatsoever to the family or to witches is the entitled Muggle of the series, Gōda. His arrival on the island, the accident to one of the servants and the hanging of Beatrice's portrait all happened the same year… this is nonsense but it's just for the sake of pretending I have a clue. [lol]

Concerning Beatrice, if we are to deny magic, I would suppose that the Beatrice Kinzō met and who gave him the gold was a human he met in Odawara or on Rokkenjima for whatever reason. The Beatrice "trapped in a cage of flesh" of Kuwadorian would actually be a Child by Rape that he thought in his madness to be her reincarnation. Considering how possessive and one-sided his "love" for the Witch was described, it would hardly surprise me. How that human would have gotten ten tons of gold or why she would have given it to him is beyond me though…

Now about the person Battler talked to about his "preferences" in the year 1980 (I suppose it's that year)… maybe one of the servants that were mentioned but we didn't see − Manon, Runon or Ren'on… Or maybe Shannon, but she never showed any special feelings for Battler so probably not. But I fail to see why "the Witch Beatrice" would get attached so strongly to Battler in particular, beyond the fact that he apparently reminds her of Kinzō in his youth.

I wonder if all this has anything to do with Asumu's death (by Episode 6 we still don't know how she died exactly). But if all this mess comes from a teenage boy saying he loves blonde, busty and assertive women, that would be a tad bit disproportionate…


I have more things to say but it will quickly become a doorstopper, so I'll stop here. The only thing I know is that, considering who the Game Master is and the fact it will probably explain Beato's past, Episode 7 is not going to be pretty.

edited 14th Oct '12 7:12:51 AM by Lyendith

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1977 Lyendith16th Oct 2012 02:39:50 AM from Bègles, France , Relationship Status: Buried in snow, waiting for spring
Hum… can I double post? It has been six days now so…

Episode 7. I have to admit I found it pretty underwhelming at first, so much that it was suspicious. Things went way too smoothly, and I was like "What? The end already?"… then came the Tea Party and HOLY CRAP!! surprised Okay, that's Bernkastel alright. tongue

All this multiple Beatrices are hard to distinguish. "Oh I am one yet many", indeed. So, for the sake of clarity, I will call Beatrice Castiglioni "Bice", the one in Kuwadorian "Beato", the culprit "Beatrice" and the one in Episode 6 "Béa". Earlier I had thought that Beato was the Child by Rape; it seems I was wrong, but it's actually worse. I understood right away who that "Lion" who came out of nowhere was, but this… is really… sick. Not mentioning that it supposedly makes Beato Battler's aunt, and thus Beatrice his cousin… so what would that make Béa?

About the device to make the mansion explode at midnight, I understood while I was in the middle of reading the Episode. Oroboro's question "why does the games stop the 6th at midnight" suddenly popped back in my mind, and I finally understood its meaning when remembering Episode 4 (everyone in the future referring to the massacre as an "accident", Ange not finding the mansion where it was supposed to be and Beatrice's last riddle). It was about time… ^__^"

Now about the two flashbacks, I have a hard time believing that everything in them is true. If not outright lies, at least some parts seem metaphorical (especially Yasu suddenly disapearing, becoming a witch and erasing Shannon's memory, all on a whim and with little more than a snap of fingers… actually, all of his/her interaction with Shannon). And, as usual, many parts are confusing. While some revelations give a lot of sense to mysterious elements in previous Episodes, others actually raise more questions instead.

First, Shannon: for some reason, she doesn't seem to have any of the "furniture" complex that was so much of a big deal in other Episodes. Then there is Virgilia: what became of the whole "passing Beatrice's name down" thing? Is Bice the one we see at the beginning of Episode 3? But why does Beatrice know about this when she doesn't even know that Bice is her grandmother at that point? To boot, Bice also seemed to be a perfectly normal human in Kinzō's story. Then again, the very end of the Tea Party seems to imply that Kinzō embellished the truth a bit, but…

Now about the final mystery: "Who is Beatrice and why did she do that?" Will, Lion and Clair speak as if it was perfectly obvious by now. Sorry folks, but it's not to me. TT___TT Considering that it is forbidden for the culprit to be someone not presented in the early part of the story, we have to conclude it's not Lion, introduced only in Episode 5. After all, that woudn't be a riddle if it was just herrrim… that character.

There seems to be a contradiction between the red fact that there are no more than sixteen people on the island (seventeen when there is a "guest" like Erika) and the presence of a very human Beatrice in the Gold chamber in Episode 7's Tea Party; which implies that she is there in every Episode. So to reach 16, we have to remove two people from the group, not one. Damn that final red truth -___-" What bugs me is that no one in Ep 7 mentions that point… as if it wasn't all that important in the end. If we have to suppose that someone impersonates Beatrice at some points, then the only person I can think of is Shannon… after all, she was the one in love with Battler originally, and certainly closer to Beatrice than anyone else except Maria. The thing is, she dies pretty early in most Episodes…

And there is the talk that Beatrice supposedly wouldn't have gone on such a rampage if Battler had come back one year earlier or later… I don't understand why the year 1986 was so special for her, nor why she created Béa in advance… For the motive of the crime, I may have a vague idea… or not. Other than making him remember his promise, I can't think of anything. And it's all the more irritating when the author constantly dares the reader to find by himself saying "oh, come on, it's not that hard". TT___TT I'll continue to think for a while.

Oh, and Kyrie. I think I can remove the "tad bit".

PS: I hadn't noticed, but in the TIPS of Episode 6 there is a (faceless) character sheet for Chiester 556… who was only mentionned very briefly and not yet seen anywhere… I thought I would meet her in Ep 7, but nope. That's weird. Unless… aaaaaaah…………… she's the rabbit Rosa broke in Episode 4?

edited 16th Oct '12 4:37:28 AM by Lyendith

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1978 Crinias16th Oct 2012 04:58:32 AM from The Bleak Academy , Relationship Status: Mu
[up] All clues are already there. The culprit has already been introduced since the very beginning, the first Episode.

What did you really see? In Episode 5's Hidden Tea Party Battler makes it clear that at many points you cannot trust the narration. After all, at the end of Episode 1 it was revealed that the entire story had been written down, placed in a bottle and thrown out to sea.

...Doesn't this strike you as odd? The author of that tale claims to be Maria, but why would she do that, and how, in such a short window of time?

Wouldn't it make more sense for the story to have been written ahead of time? Of course it does. Battler has already made this clear: You cannot trust the narration except when he sees it or when a red truth has been said. Meaning that a huge lie wouldn't be difficult to cover up.

Really now, it feels a bit wrong to say it aloud, so I'll just ask you a simple question: When has Battler ever seen Shannon and Kanon in the same room at the same time?

As for Beatrice's motive, I'm sorry you cannot see it, but it is love. That's all I'm saying.
1979 Oroboro16th Oct 2012 06:43:33 AM , Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
Haha holy crap. You've been busy.

Something about Yasu that is a bit confusing at is easy to get lost in that transition Is that Yasu IS Shannon. In Yasu's early narration, Shannon is always there, cheering her on, and is the very model of what she wants to be. But the Shannon we know is clumsy and awkward. The "Shannon" Yasu sees never interacts with the other servants, and is in essence, an imaginary friend. After Yasu decided to become Beatrice, she adopts the persona of "Shannon" fully, and Yasutrice becomes the imaginary friend. Sort of.. I'll say here that terms like "Multiple Personalities" or "Dissociative Identity Disorder" miss the point, and to reach the true heart of her situation it requires more thinking, and love. And would require me to type like an entire thesis and I haven't eaten breakfast yet. tongue

EP 8... tbh, you won't get many answers there. It's more of a grand finale for the series as a whole. The bulk of the reveal is in EP 7.

Did you understand Will's "Solutions" for each closed room? (Illusions to illusions, etc) He's speaking in riddles, but if you figure out what he's referring to most of the answers are pretty straightforward.

Edit: In regards to Shannon's lack of a furniture complex... the answer there is in the red truth Bernkastel cuts out of Claire. sad In fact, that truth is probably one of the most important things when it comes to understanding.

edited 16th Oct '12 7:29:55 AM by Oroboro

Without love, it cannot be seen. [1]
1980 Lyendith16th Oct 2012 07:34:31 AM from Bègles, France , Relationship Status: Buried in snow, waiting for spring
[up] Okkkaaayyyy… I had thought about something like that but it really was ambiguous. I found it odd that Yasu was described as the only exception, even though Shannon had also started at a ridiculously young age. Now things make a lot more sense. Or, well, at least that allows me to figure some things out!

Did you understand Will's "Solutions" for each closed room? (Illusions to illusions, etc) He's speaking in riddles, but if you figure out what he's referring to most of the answers are pretty straightforward.

Some of them, yeah. The first twilights of the first and third game in particular, but his formulations are indeed precious hints.

Really now, it feels a bit wrong to say it aloud, so I'll just ask you a simple question:

Now that you say it… that, plus the way Kanon is introduced in Ep 7, Ep 6's closed room solution, Will's answers and what Oroboro just explained, comforts me more in what I had considered with only a vague base… stupid me, talking about that poor Gōda, that guy is just a cook.

How did Kanon escape the guesthouse closed room? Because he wasn't in it in the firt place obviously. So why wasn't he included in the "everyone else" and how did he escape from Battler's closed room? Because he was never anywhere in the first place. The 17th person who "doesn't exist" is Kanon. Or maybe I should say that Kanon and Shannon are one and the same? Virgilia did describe them as "a pair of furniture". That would explain why the two of them couldn't fulfil their love at the same time. Also, Kanon has Shannon's age minus 3 years.

Or something like that… damn, this is stimulating.


In regards to Shannon's lack of a furniture complex... the answer there is in the red truth Bernkastel cuts out of Claire.

Oh… what was it again? I forgot that part… it was like 1:00 when I finished reading the Tea Party, so I may have missed it. -__-"

edited 16th Oct '12 8:39:34 AM by Lyendith

Flippé de participer à ce grand souper, je veux juste m'occuper de taper mon propre tempo.
So long as we all remember that in the end, everything is really George's fault. Because I said so.
1982 Oroboro16th Oct 2012 08:45:28 AM , Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
Those lines of red which Bernkastel cut from Claire could be said to be ugly truths, that everyone would prefer be forgotten, or gussied up with lies and fantasy. (See: Maria's philosophy.)

Kinzo: "S, Steal the Italians gold you say? You coward Ushiromiya! And you call yourself a soldier of the empire?!!" (Implying that Kinzo was the one to instigate the massacre, and by this lie, it's possible that his perfect romance with Bice was all fantasy as well. )

Beatrice II: .....F, Father.....? I, I do love and respect you, Father...... B, But,.... your feelings are something I, um..." (Kinzo rape. >_<)

Yasu, to Genji and Dr. Najo: "Why...?!! Why did you save me?! Why didn't you let me die?! Because of that terrible injury, ..... I've been forced to live in a body like this! I never wanted to live in a body like this!! This body isn't even capable of love.....!! What's... what's the point in living like that?! This isn't a human's life...!! It's like being furniture! That's right, I'm... furniture...!! Furniture...!! Why...... why didn't you let me die back then?!! Waaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhh.......!!!"

(Note: Ellipsis and exclamations may not be exactly quoted. tongue)

Anyway, Note how contrasted that angsted declaration is compared to the seemingly ignorant bliss and attempted happiness in which Yasu claimed her life to be. How her story seemingly cuts short right after the gold is found and Kanon arrives. This part here is slight speculation, but I think that up until she found the gold and was told the truth, she believed she was normal.

And yes, George is a total creeper. evil grin

edited 16th Oct '12 8:47:24 AM by Oroboro

Without love, it cannot be seen. [1]
1983 Lyendith16th Oct 2012 10:22:37 AM from Bègles, France , Relationship Status: Buried in snow, waiting for spring
Ah, by red truth you meant that… about Bice, according to doctor Nanjō, at least the part about their perfect romance was true… but since he didn't live with them, he might have had a false impression… anyway, going by what is said in Episode 4, Kinzō chose to sacrifice "all of the others" to be with his beloved. I don't think simply shooting Yamamoto when he was pointing his gun at Bice was that hard of a choice. If he instigated the massacre however, that would be more demon king-like…

About Yasu, I find this passage a bit enigmatic… her body was apparently under-developped when she was a kid, but if she grew up to look like Beato… well, there are worse bodies than that! So I wonder what she meant by "a body unable to love"… was she sterile or something? Or were the servants lying about her ressemblance? Cause it's a freaking miracle of genetics to have the daughters of three generations in a row looking absolutely identical (let alone when one is ethnically mixed the one after consanguineous).

I don't really like George either, but hey, he took his chance. Fair game.

edited 16th Oct '12 12:22:26 PM by Lyendith

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[up] To answer all of your questions.

1. Regarding the "logic error". Remember that Beatrice presented a changed scenario to Lambdadelta, essentially a Retcon. There is a very simple explanation regarding that scenario in which a clue as to the answer was provided in the 5th novel. The walls are thin enough so that you can easily hear what's going on in the next room. Ask yourself how the seals were done purely from an anti-fantasy perspective with no magic. It is physically impossible for Erika to have done all four at the same time. This results in the following solution. Kanon heard what was going on and made his escape sometime between the construction of the 1st seal and the construction of the 3rd seal. This escape would take 5 minutes tops. He then swapped places with Battler. Erika thus accidentally created the perfect closed room thinking she was killing Battler.

2. When thinking about this remember this red truth from the 4th novel. There are 17 humans on the island. In the 5th novel, Lambadelta gives a red truth about Erika being a +1 modifier to the number of people in the previous games. Combined with the fact that Shannon and Kanon are seen at the same time in front of the detective's authority in the 5th novel (the manga makes this really clear), how does this refer to the ending of the 6th novel? Battler wasn't refering to Shannon and Kanon being the same person, he was refering to Erika. In essence, Battler was using a meta based counter-factual logic bomb based on alternate time lines.

3. Body incapable of love may be a reference to social status, not any form of physical malfunction. An infant falling off a cliff and surviving with nothing more than mere reproductive damage is medically impossible, let alone actually surviving. The 7th novel is essentially from a fictional magical theatre perspective with very little red truth nor objective perspective, meaning that anything from that novel is highly suspect at best. Bernkastel points out in the 8th novel that if you did not already know the truth by the 7th novel, you will be deceived. Yes, you can find out who the true culprit really is purely from the murder scenarios in the 1st four novels.

And now an interesting theory I thought up inspired by one of R7's interviews. Since this is from an interview, I think I can safely avoid spoiler tags for the most part.

Much like Bernkastel, Witch Beatrice is a splinter personality. Witches are biologically, mentally, and spiritually completely different people from the host they came out of. Witch Beatrice represents love, BOTH its light and dark side. Witch Beatrice's form is based on the legend of the Golden Witch on the island. A witch inherits certain things from their host body. Witch Beatrice's apothesis might have been during "Incident Prime".

edited 16th Oct '12 11:55:34 AM by magnum12

1985 Oroboro16th Oct 2012 11:48:33 AM , Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
The meaning "a body unable to love" is pretty debatable, but a common interpretation is that The fall as a child damaged her reproductive organs. (Whether born a man, mutilated, and raised female, or even if she was originally female and damaged beyond repair is ambiguous and somewhat besides the point. The real issue is how she feels about her situation.) That and being an incest-rape baby.

@Magnum: Look, I know how you feel about all this, but can you at least let the man go through the story as Ryukushi intended before throwing all of these "Alternative" stories in his face?

Edit: [up][up] About the Identical Granddaughter thing with the Beatos... Probably just chalk it up to similar hairstyles / re-using the spriteset for faces. I think the manga versions give them all slightly different features.

edited 16th Oct '12 12:42:22 PM by Oroboro

Without love, it cannot be seen. [1]
1986 Crinias16th Oct 2012 12:51:42 PM from The Bleak Academy , Relationship Status: Mu
[up][up] I disagree with your second point, magnum. That red truth from the 4th novel is wrong to begin with: Beatrice never said that "There are 17 humans on the island." Early on in Episode 3 she said "There are no more than 18 people on this Rokkenjima", and in the 4th game's Tea Party she said: "No more than 17 humans exist on this island!!".

No more than. Meaning, even at that point in time it was conceivable that they could be 16. Lambdadelta did say in the 5th game that Erika only increases the number of people by one, but they never actually say how many people there are until the end of Episode 6.

And let me remind you that Battler isn't the detective in Episode 5, Erika is. He himself says it! He saw Kinzo (even though he is dead) and we already know from one of Beato's red truth in Episode 4 that no person could mistake Kinzo by sight. His viewpoint isn't objective at all. And the scene you mentioned isn't narrated by Erika. Entire scenes with Battler in that Episode can be false. The detective's authority is all well and good, but if the detective in question doesn't narrate or give us her viewpoint then you're back to where we started.

I kind of feel the same as Oroboro. Let's not push Lyendith in any particular direction. At least, no more than what we already have.
I'm in a bit of a pickle. I'm attempting to introduce a friend to Higurashi no Naku Koro ni (anime version). In order to guide the viewer through this Mind Screw, I've decided to bring out the blue/red truth logic game. I've currently got a few rules jotted down. Since the invitee is a very smart individual who loves the horror genre, I'm sure this battle of wits is going to be a good time.

1. All blue truths must be Knox compliant. This should not be a problem since Higurashi is fully Knox compliant.

Knox's 1st covered, also rules out a character introduced in the 4th novel.

Knox's 2nd covered if one takes a more modern interpretation about supernatural/preternatural entities forbidden from involvement in the crime (namely as a culprit or investigation technique, which intrinsically rules out Oyashiro as a culprit).

I don't recall any secret passages being relevant to the crimes so that covers Knox's 3rd.

Hinimizawa Syndrome is allowed under Knox's 4th, since as indicated in a blue truth on page 76, all it does is corrupt two components of your brain chemistry, so the explanation is simple.

No minorities, so Knox's 5th is covered.

I don't think pure intuition was used (especially not in the 2nd novel) so Knox's 6th is fine.

The only person IIRC who was even close to having the detective's authority/being the detective was Rena in the 2nd novel even if she didn't narrate (similar to Erika in End of the Golden Witch), so Knox's 7th is covered.

Pretty much all the clues to solve the various murder scenarios of 1979-1983 were there for the player so Knox's 8th is fine.

Knox's 9th covered.

Knox's 10th is essential to the 2nd novel.

2. All that stuff about red truth being absolute truth, the conditions for blue truth being countered by red, etc.

3. All scenarios (the ones not shown onscreen anyway) must be solved with the whodunnit, how dunnit, and whydunnit. The player fails to solve the scenario when the solution is shown before the player had a correct blue truth.

Any pointers on how to be a better gamemaster? Such as not being too reckless with red truth, being a good natured troll for harmless lulz unlike the witches, etc.

edited 16th Oct '12 2:10:47 PM by magnum12

1988 Oroboro16th Oct 2012 02:15:00 PM , Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
I haven't read the Higurashi V Ns yet myself, but the anime is pretty straightforward. Much of the speculation and mystery takes a bit of second play when all you have to do is put on the next episode. tongue

Honestly I don't think you really need to bring Knox into it, and it might just distract the actual issue. As for proper gamemastering, my advice is to ask questions. Ask them what they think, ask them why, get them to explain their reasoning, and they'll come to understand it in the process. Whether they come up with a right or wrong answer, don't acknowledge it as such, and just get them to keep thinking.
Without love, it cannot be seen. [1]
1989 Lyendith17th Oct 2012 03:58:39 AM from Bègles, France , Relationship Status: Buried in snow, waiting for spring
About the Identical Granddaughter thing with the Beatos... Probably just chalk it up to similar hairstyles / re-using the spriteset for faces. I think the manga versions give them all slightly different features.

Probably… then again, the mangas are drawn by several different authors, so it's hard to tell.

[up][up][up] This. More basically, that final red truth is supposed to be a Wham Line, so I highly doubt it's something as convoluted as what Magnum says. ヱリカさんを迎えても、十七人だ。 It can't be more clear.

However, Crinias, concerning your question earlier… Episode 8, chapter 1. Kanon and Shannon are in the same room with Battler and Ange. Oops. But that doesn't make me abandon my theory completely. Rather than being one person, one could say that they are the two halves of a whole. After all, both are basically what the other isn't. A clumsy but composed and gentle girl, vs. a competent but sulky and hot-blooded guy.

An amusing fact: if I take my time to read Episode 8, I may have finished the series around the period of Halloween. [lol]


edited 17th Oct '12 4:10:39 AM by Lyendith

Flippé de participer à ce grand souper, je veux juste m'occuper de taper mon propre tempo.
Episode 8 is different.
1991 Oroboro17th Oct 2012 07:04:48 AM , Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
[up] Yeah, like I said, a grand finale, but not much to learn. Of course you can see that already with Kinzo running around alive. Basically EP 8 doesn't have a detective at all.

Just because it's completely ridiculous, here's that scene in the manga. =D [1]

edited 17th Oct '12 7:32:04 AM by Oroboro

Without love, it cannot be seen. [1]
1992 Lyendith17th Oct 2012 09:15:52 AM from Bègles, France , Relationship Status: Buried in snow, waiting for spring
I see. So that doesn't change anything… nevertheless, that scene is hilarious. [lol] Just seeing Genji as the Comically Serious is pure gold.

edited 17th Oct '12 9:24:32 AM by Lyendith

Flippé de participer à ce grand souper, je veux juste m'occuper de taper mon propre tempo.
1993 Anarchy18th Oct 2012 09:08:00 AM from Perak, Malaysia
just a medicine seller
Man. Rereading that scene in manga form... it's just heartbreaking. /sob
I didn't know whether I should lol or sweat drop with that scene. [lol]

Now that I think about it, I think we may have been given a clue about Bernkastel's origins as an Enemy Without in the novels this whole time.

Bernkastel's Weapon of Choice (Sinister Scythe) is a clue about her true origins.

A scythe is a farm implement. Her's in particular is very sinister looking. Connect the dots and you'll see what I mean.
1995 Lyendith18th Oct 2012 10:12:05 AM from Bègles, France , Relationship Status: Buried in snow, waiting for spring
Dunno about Bern… the conversation between Lambda and Erika in Episode 6 gives the impression that her trauma doesn't come from Higurashi's loop but something older… after all Bern herself talks about it as just a game between her and Lambda, and Featherine (supposedly the irresponsible game master in question) says at one point "I heard you took the name Bernkastel and played some nasty Fragment game". I would suppose that Rika was Bernkastel's piece and that Frederica was Bernkastel herself… their appearance match, except Frederica doesn't have a cat tail…

But other clues seem to imply that she was born from there. Now that I think about it, did R7 himself ever say anything about the matter?

edited 18th Oct '12 10:14:38 AM by Lyendith

Flippé de participer à ce grand souper, je veux juste m'occuper de taper mon propre tempo.
[up] Yes he did actually. He said that Bernkastel in essence was a splinter of Rika purged from her subconcsious after the events of the Festival Music and Dice Killing chapters. Bernkastel represents all the pain, rage, and grief of all the Rikas that did not survive. In regards to Fredrica Bernkastel, see my blue truth about the connection between those two in the middle of page 76.

I suspect this twist as planned all along, with that scythe being the clue (which incidentally, Erika also wields).
1997 Lyendith18th Oct 2012 10:56:45 AM from Bègles, France , Relationship Status: Buried in snow, waiting for spring
Oh. So there isn't any doubt on that part actually… your earlier blue does make some sense…

It's strange though. Takano's story is one of "effort and iron will that brings success with near certainty", so we are led to think that the Witch of Certainty somehow had a hand in all that (that Lamda looks like Miyoko doesn't help…) But that may be wrong. I doubt Bern would love the person who made her life a living hell, no matter how twisted that love is… she does have a grudge against Featherine however…

On a side note, I sucked miserably at most of Episode 8's puzzles - although I got all medals thanks to the magic of the LOAD button tongue. Some are really vicious. But I had guessed right about Battler's birth, ha! It's quite a feat that Rudolf and the doctors managed to switch the babies without any of the mothers noticing though. Whether the child is stillborn or not, the mother knows it right away, doesn't she? It's not like Rudolf had an ubiquity power, nor had he anticipated any of it…

edited 18th Oct '12 11:39:54 AM by Lyendith

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1998 Oroboro18th Oct 2012 01:38:37 PM , Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
I think the implication between Featherine, Bern, and Lambda is that Featherine was the Master, Bern was just a piece (Kind of like Erika is now), and Lambda was their opponent.

Whatever else, I'm inclined to believe their twisted love is genuine, too.

As for the Higurashi connection, I don't think Ryukushi's ever specifically stated. There's a lot of vague hints, and half-suggestions, but the reader is left to draw their own conclusion. It doesn't matter much to the story as a whole, just helps you understand them as characters a bit better.
Without love, it cannot be seen. [1]
Yeah, that's it so far as I can tell. Takano was also a piece or perhaps just someone influenced by Lambdadelta since one sidestory thing or another chronicled them meeting or something weird like that.
Oh man, I can't wait to see how this game of mine goes. I'm especially looking foward to seeing the reaction to Watanagashi-hen/Meakashi-hen. Given that My invitee is an identical twin, it's going to be fun. evil grin

Speaking of Mekashi-hen, how should I address the "elephant in the closet" regarding that chapter's err.....infamous......reputation. Should I be polite/courteous and give the whole You Have Been Warned bit, or should I keep that a surprise and watch the fireworks?

I know a lot of people don't really like the Festival Music Chapter, and I'm in the minority in my opinion, but here's my reason for liking it so much. Hinimizawa Syndrome. Due to my background, I just simply found it to be really interesting. Not to mention it gave me some side thoughts as to trying to solve that thing (for those who recently joined in, please see blue truths regarding that topic on bottom of page 76).

edited 19th Oct '12 10:42:41 AM by magnum12

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