The Military Thread

^^

International Incident — they're not Americans. And as far as I'm aware, nobody's been shot around Area51, since the Security Guards prefer intimidation.

edited 12th Oct '12 3:18:36 AM by Greenmantle

A draft? Nope.

Most talk of a draft is by politican's talking out their butt.

Most military jobs are too technical that sticking draftees in them is pointless. In the US, Federal Law and military regs (as they are written) limit a conscript to 2 years of service. That includes basic training and tech school.

At the 2 year mark, most service members are just getting the hang of their jobs. Two years is barely enough time to train, deploy then outprocess a soldier. For every soldier/marine with a ruck, 2 boots and a weapon there are at least four to seven others whose jobs are in the rear. The tail is still bigger than the teeth no matter how many contractors the Do D tries to hire (contractors who can just walk away from the jobs). And many "gear in the rear" jobs are still no place for idiots off the street. Nowadays a service member can be more at risk since the "rear" may not exist.

The goal of all the drones and long range strikes is to lessen the losses on our side. A draft was just a way to get bodies for the meat grinders fought before WWI and WWII. It was WWII that was the swansong of attrition warefare. Korea and Vietnam were more political as much as they were strategic, but even then the Do D was planning on how to use combat power without putting our people at risk. All that bore fruit in Desert Storm and OIF/OEF.

Despite all the problems, Iraq's casualty count is 1/10 Vietnam's. Even if you add in Afghanistan, it's still under 1/5.

So pols talking about a draft are idiots. The military didn't revert back to a skeleton force it did after WWI. When the Do D was formed a fourth armed service was added. I could go on for days on the goat rope that was Vietnam, but it was the very last gasp of the "send bodies into the meatgrinder" style of fighting.

edited 12th Oct '12 3:25:27 AM by TairaMai

Hmm. Some people do ask for trouble, indeed court it. Those conspiracy theorists did more than that. If the Americans were as bad as they say, those twats would have been in blacked out jets on route to Gitmo. And the American government would be asking "Who?" when enquiries were made.

There is one situation in which I could see a draft being a viable idea in this day and age and that is to take in people with skills that are important but which the military does not have at the moment. For example, if the military were hurting for lawyers, bring in a group of lawyers on temporary secondment from their home firms for X years, up to a certain amount that the DoD believes will be needed. It saves you the trouble of having to train these people up yourself and you get the added benefit of being able to draw from people experienced in their fields as opposed to being limited to only those people who volunteer.

I think one mistake a lot of people make when arguing against a draft is assuming that it has to be a draft of every male of fighting age among the American population or that we need to maintain a World War II level of manpower. Now, I'm not in favor of a draft, but I can envision a situation where we draft people to meet a much, much smaller quota but still of sufficient size for modern low intensity operations. Why people always imagine the millions-strong Army from World War II when they think of a draft, I will never understand.

Just to be clear, I don't think a draft of any kind would happen short of a full-scale invasion of the mainland.

The US Do D has that plan in place. But only if Congress declares a war. As it stands now, there are people with Ph D's who are joining up because of the economy and coming in as privates in the infantry. If Congress gives the okay, then someone with a Ph D in a field the military needs can come in as an officer. It's all about priorities.

As for the UFO hunters. How &^$#@ stupid do you have to be? I'm in an office and of some yahoo off the street comes in, I call the Military Police or if given the order by my commander, I can use deadly force if told to do so. From weapons, supplies or secrets, we can do what we have to do to protect the US and it's allies. The signs are there for a reason. The base has a real world mission (that don't involve little green EB Es but that's beside the point). They are lucky the military uses a force continuum. In South Korea, those a-holes would've been shot dead. Other countries will bury you and your lawyer in the same landfill if you so much as look at their bases crosswise.

edited 12th Oct '12 6:56:33 AM by TairaMai

A draft wouldn't happen if there was an invasion of the mainland. thered be a draft if there was a credible threat of an invasion. We're not stupid enough to wait for the attack to come.

Pah. The Beeb is nowhere near as good or impartial as the Jaz these days.

What the fuck?◊ Why is one of those morons wearing a two-stripers service blues top with black pants?

Anyhow, those security forces guys in that gatehouse just lost stripes over that shit.. Eating dinner and watching the game without having someone posted outside?

Anyway, at least they didn't display any outrage over getting hung up by the guards.

I'm trying to envision a scenario or set of circumstances that would neccesitate a draft being called up.

Pretty much all of them fit nicely into the Bad Things category.

So, bayonets: Obsolete Tools of Yesteryear, Occasionally Useful Utility Tools, or The Things that Help Fertilize The Green Grass? Explain your answer.

edited 12th Oct '12 10:58:04 AM by pvtnum11

I can't really imagine one that doesn't involve aliens or zombies. Any world war level conflict wouldn't get so large conventionally that it required a draft before someone pushed a red button somewhere.

Barkey, I think that guy was just a loon who went to a surplus store and bought that shirt just to try to get a rise out of those SF guys. Idiot's haircut is way too thick to be military.

Bayonets are very, very useful. Not just for getting into packets of sausage-and-beans, but in actual fighty stuff.

Strangling people turns out to be waaaaay harder in real life than in the movies.

edited 12th Oct '12 11:22:56 AM by InverurieJones

I wouldn't even try for a strangle. Just punch, elbow strike or kick the throat, aiming for a point to the rear of the back of the neck. Crushes the trachea like a mofo. Do a good enough job and the person you have just killed is killed for sure. Unless they get treatment from a really good surgeon within minutes of you doing it to them.

On the civilian wearing a dress shirt with rank insignia, surely they could have done him for fraud or something petty like that?

It was icy, I slipped and we ended up on the ground together. He was trying to pummel my face in and I was trying to throttle him but my hands were cold and those stupid gloves - you know the sort of padded combat gloves they used to issue in the late '90s?- weren't helping...

...This is why people don't let me meet their parents, isn't it?

edited 12th Oct '12 11:51:42 AM by InverurieJones

...there's probably a story behind that, but I'm not going to pry.

The N.I. gloves? I remember them well.

@GS: you mean there's probably a story behind it, and I am all ears.

Well, this about sums up how I feel right now.

The later ones without the dead handy padded rectangle on the back, but still loads of padding on the fingers.

But that's why bayonets are useful, anyhow.

edited 12th Oct '12 1:14:18 PM by InverurieJones

Stock of a rifle works well enough, but only if there's just one opponent. Any more than that and hand to hand is just too much of a risk.

Vulcan bomber XH558 to be grounded

Shame. It's not cheap to keep a plane- especially a jet- flying though.

Tis a pity indeed. Such a cool looking plane. I just love the look of the craft.

It'll be in a museum though no?

Probably, but is that anywhere near as cool as still flying?